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Two years later: Walking in Stations

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Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#681 - 2013-12-22 00:11:29 UTC
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Elizabeth Brown wrote:
I think a great deal of people who think Avatar content is a bad idea think that on the basis that they believe anything CCP deliver in future will be like the CQ, pointless and devoid of content with no impact on the rest of the Eve universe.

No, we're afraid that real Eve content will get ignored for another two years and the result will be even worse than the CQ. Based on the current status of DUST and WoD there is every reason to be fearful.


This again Rhes? You realise this has been covered over and over. It's just bull **** plain and simple. Incarna wasn't the reason Eve was neglected for 18 months. If you've got any references or evidence I will be happy to concede, but you don't, and there is lots of evidence to the contrary. This is a terrible troll at best, and ignorance or stupidity at worst.


So what was CCP working on for the two years before Incarna was released (it sure wasn't actual Eve content)? Did those rooms with a couch just appear by magic?

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Naydra Adni
Doomheim
#682 - 2013-12-22 00:20:54 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Elizabeth Brown wrote:
I think a great deal of people who think Avatar content is a bad idea think that on the basis that they believe anything CCP deliver in future will be like the CQ, pointless and devoid of content with no impact on the rest of the Eve universe.

No, we're afraid that real Eve content will get ignored for another two years and the result will be even worse than the CQ. Based on the current status of DUST and WoD there is every reason to be fearful.


This again Rhes? You realise this has been covered over and over. It's just bull **** plain and simple. Incarna wasn't the reason Eve was neglected for 18 months. If you've got any references or evidence I will be happy to concede, but you don't, and there is lots of evidence to the contrary. This is a terrible troll at best, and ignorance or stupidity at worst.


So what was CCP working on for the two years before Incarna was released (it sure wasn't actual Eve content)? Did those rooms with a couch just appear by magic?


are you really ignorant enough to believe it took all of CCPtwo years to make a single room?
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#683 - 2013-12-22 00:22:18 UTC
Naydra Adni wrote:

are you really ignorant enough to believe it took all of CCPtwo years to make a single room?

Don't forget the wildly popular microtransaction store.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Dyfchris
Doomheim
#684 - 2013-12-22 00:30:31 UTC
It's time to remove CQ & avatar. We don't need that.
We need only ships, basic stations,... & friends for flying & conquer the star map. :)
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#685 - 2013-12-22 01:08:52 UTC
Naydra Adni wrote:
are you really ignorant enough to believe it took all of CCPtwo years to make a single room?


Is a waste of time. No matter what you say or how hard you try to explain, he will always repeat the same autistic loop:
"yes but I like spaceship"
"yes but mobile depot are cool"
"yes but this is the true EVE"
"nerf AFK clock"
"may I have your stuff?"

Then will log in an alt and restart the loop. This peole spend all their time so; you will never see any relevant argument or intelligence sign.

Just ignore.
Vicisci
Vakou Harvest
#686 - 2013-12-22 05:00:34 UTC
There is lots of post already abbout wether or not wis should be implemented so i will not go into that, instead i will like to propose some ideas on how to implement it in the eve universe, gameplay and economy using existing modify game mechanics.All ideas are just a suggestion on how it might be done nothing is set in stone.

1.-Gameplay
More tactical approach, think of jagged alliance or the old X-com games, instead of orbit or keep at range you have kneel, crouch, cover, etc.Similar to what it is now but in a singleplane and with humanoid avatars.

2.-Stations
-Its like adding more regions so each station is a new region that has 5 floors (constellations) and 4-5 districst (systems)

-all floors should not be available they will be unlocked when the above floor is full and the price for renting space will grow exponentially.For example jita top floor will be very expensive the second floor less an so on until the fifth floor, but still the fifht floor will be more expensive than another station with only one floor and one district full.

-Each station will have the first floor first district unlocked by default, there will be no renting space in this district instead it will have the regular corporate office (single room with a tv) and two main buildings depending on factions owning the system for example.(its functions will be explained later).

-Ammar.- concentration camp & civil service
-Caldari.- reeducation camp & State protectorate
-Gallente.-Reinstatment center & Federation customs
-Minmatar.-Refugee camp & republic university

3.-District, starbases and what to do with this space.

-Districst follow the same rules depending if they are in high, low or nullsec.Automated guns in high. concord npc checkpoints in low and mad max in null.

-The higher the sec status the more expensive the rent will be, but there could be weapon restrictions for example .1-.9 just handguns, .8-.7 shotguns, .6-.5 submachineguns and below assault rifles , heavy machineguns.. etc.

-Rented spacee will have similar rules as POSES have now regarding sec status of the system they are in and reinforcement timers.

-All distircts will have available for rent; clubs/bar/casino, corp office and training centers, some will have an extra district for research and manufacture facilities if the corporation that owns the station already have those facilities.

-Like POSES that have Powrgrid and cpu for anchoring stuff, real state will have a carrying capacity.

-The carrying capacity is how many npc you can have in your real state, the larger the space rented the more carrying capacity it has and the more expensive the rent will be.

-each districts could have 1000 squares for rent, so if you want to rent 4 squares you will be renting 4+12, the 12 being the street around your state.This is to avoid repetition in stations and to let them grow differently from each other.Each usable square will have a carrying capacity value ( PG-CPU).

4.-NPC and rigs

-Personel this could e used as a starting point with increased drop for example sansha incursions could drop indoctrinated dudes from time to time and so on, depending on faction wreck.

-Npcs are not capsuleers so if you have minmatar citizens and dock in an amarr station they will be taken from your cargo hold to the concentration camp where they will be put on sale for estimated market value and you will be payed a percentage of that price.(detection percentage based on system sec status).

-Npc can be trained in the training centers, available centers on district depends on the corporation that owns the station for example:
* Caldari Business Tribunal - Trade skills
*Deep Core Mining Inc - resource processing skills
*Echelon Entertainment - Neural enhancement skills
*School of Applied Knowledge - Research Skills
*Internal Security - security ( POS guns)

-each npc can train only one skill up to level 3 but to upgrade from lvl1 to lvl 2 and 3 you will need different corps fro example.
*Lvl 1-shopping mall secutiy - internal security
*Lvl 2- militia -Home guard
*Lvl 3- comando super elite -Caldary Navy

-Npc are people so if you want to use minmatar militia but have bad standings with them you cant, unless you enslaved them first and use them in ammar or caldari space so now you will have ensaleved minmatar militia.

-Npc bonuses will depend onb the npc standings with the faction that owns the station.

-Npc skills are applied to you as if it was you that gained those lvls only the neural enhacement skills will be active meaning you have to pay to someone to get them. Skills only work in the satation where your real state and the npc are.

-Npc bonus have stacking penalties.

-Not all skills within a tree skill are availabble for npc training.

-Npc need a salary (fuel) to get it you need to put a concentration camp/civil service colony in an existing temperate planet PI colony, and it will give you X ammount of gallente/amarr/minmatar/caldari currency and X ammount of civilians/slaves..etc in X ammount of time depending on the PI colony already present. (sansha indoctrinated cost no fuel but they can only be used inb certain factions space and in sovereign space).

-currency has the same volume as BPC but can be stacked and exchange rate will be decided by the market.
Vicisci
Vakou Harvest
#687 - 2013-12-22 05:12:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Vicisci
5.-Real state and where to put this people

-Industry & research.- research and manufacture of weapons, armor (jackets, robes and bulky clothes could be armor tanked) shields (light clothes, tshirts..etc).Weapons and upgrades similar or the same to dust with some item restrictions.
*research and manufacture of furniture and decoration (increased PG-CPU )
*Improved productioon and research speed etc.(depends on npc skills)

-Corporate offices.- bling ,trade skills.

-Training centers.- training of npc, social skills.

-Refining facilities.- resource processing skills.

-club/casino/strippers/dancers.-strippers and dancers will give you a bonus in bilogy, neurotoxin recovery and infomorph syncronizing if you tip them.

*you can upgrade your club to a casino with roulette,bingo, black jack and poker (hopefully things like this could happen). To upgrade you just have to buy a gambling licence.

- if your npc run out of fuel they will leave to the civil service in the case of amarr and put themselves on sale at estimated market value.

Edit.- Gun fight is missing
Flamespar
WarRavens
#688 - 2013-12-22 09:10:08 UTC
I don't care what they introduce for Avatars, as long as it is

a) fun
b) adds to the EVE universe as a whole.
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#689 - 2013-12-22 11:11:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Davon Mandra'thin
Vicisci wrote:
2.-Stations
-Its like adding more regions so each station is a new region that has 5 floors (constellations) and 4-5 districst (systems)

-all floors should not be available they will be unlocked when the above floor is full and the price for renting space will grow exponentially.For example jita top floor will be very expensive the second floor less an so on until the fifth floor, but still the fifht floor will be more expensive than another station with only one floor and one district full.

-Each station will... etc


I hate to spoil the dream but something built on this scale would be incredibly impractical. Having massive open 'districts' where the number of people who can roam around is largely unrestricted would be a server nightmare. I think a more practical approach would be to have establishments (whatever type of establishment they might be) as separate instance entities that are connected to the CQ by a transport system of some description. That door in the CQ could just lead to a fancy elevator with a console on which you select your destination establishment.

Selecting the establishment you would like to go to would start the elevator moving (the time the elevator takes to get there can be used to pre-load the environment, pre-load the characters, and allow the other players clients to pre-load your character before they arrive). These establishment could then have the number of total people allowed in restricted like our solar systems do now (on a much smaller scale though I should think). They could also be restricted by standing, corporation, alliance or invite only. The Establishments would then only have to be large enough to handle their player restricted number (like 30 or so).

Open promenades are probably a pipe dream. Jita would be horrible. By restricting access in this way you wouldn't have to worry about crowds of immersion breaking idiots spamming, there would be no lag, and any frustration with specific people/crowds can be eliminated.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#690 - 2013-12-22 13:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
That door in the CQ could just lead to a fancy elevator with a console on which you select your destination establishment.


And in the meantime, when you are doing the trip inside it, the establishment is generated from the matematical formula and from the huge database of elements and themes, in this case you can have as many establishments as you wish. Then you could invite someone to it. The same idea could be applied to "dungeons" and to "monsters".

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Baroness Vulna
Armada vi Vulnezia
#691 - 2013-12-22 13:32:23 UTC
Yes, open ze door!!

brought to you by -Barony of Vulnezia MMO micro nation- www.vulnezia.com Be a part of the world's first MMO Micro Nation
Vicisci
Vakou Harvest
#692 - 2013-12-23 01:55:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Vicisci
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Vicisci wrote:
2.-Stations
-Its like adding more regions so each station is a new region that has 5 floors (constellations) and 4-5 districst (systems)

-all floors should not be available they will be unlocked when the above floor is full and the price for renting space will grow exponentially.For example jita top floor will be very expensive the second floor less an so on until the fifth floor, but still the fifht floor will be more expensive than another station with only one floor and one district full.

-Each station will... etc


I hate to spoil the dream but something built on this scale would be incredibly impractical. Having massive open 'districts' where the number of people who can roam around is largely unrestricted would be a server nightmare. I think a more practical approach would be to have establishments (whatever type of establishment they might be) as separate instance entities that are connected to the CQ by a transport system of some description. That door in the CQ could just lead to a fancy elevator with a console on which you select your destination establishment.

Selecting the establishment you would like to go to would start the elevator moving (the time the elevator takes to get there can be used to pre-load the environment, pre-load the characters, and allow the other players clients to pre-load your character before they arrive). These establishment could then have the number of total people allowed in restricted like our solar systems do now (on a much smaller scale though I should think). They could also be restricted by standing, corporation, alliance or invite only. The Establishments would then only have to be large enough to handle their player restricted number (like 30 or so).

Open promenades are probably a pipe dream. Jita would be horrible. By restricting access in this way you wouldn't have to worry about crowds of immersion breaking idiots spamming, there would be no lag, and any frustration with specific people/crowds can be eliminated.



How about dividing each district into several zones and adding a fee depending on the number of people already inside, so heavily populated systems are expensive to live and vist compared to lower population ones. Also a que to get in, if the carrying capacity is full kind of like jita now when its full.

Also states could have small open areas and instanced areas (dungeons). To get in you pay the fee set by the owner but still there is a little bit of walking around

If we do it by invite only there would be no way of attacking the state and looting like you can with POSES.

Edit.- This way you can stand outside where the security is (pos guns) shoot the place and then come back 24hrs later to get inside and continue the attack.And still the number of people inside is restricted by the size of the establishment and the owner wishes.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#693 - 2013-12-23 06:31:08 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
EVE is a game about spaceships? Excuse me, but either I'm blind or I see 2 big avatars in the center of EVE Online: Rubicon's patch page. The spaceships there are small things on the background.
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#694 - 2013-12-23 07:41:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius StarGazer
Probably been mentioned already - but too lazy to go through entire post.

Star Citizen is clearly going to have the whole walking in stations thing sorted... Infact it looks pretty good. I mean you can eve walk through your own ships!

As for it fitting into Eve, I dunno lots of other thing that need fixing first.
Wolf Kruol
1st Tikiona Lancers
Citizen's Star Republic
#695 - 2013-12-23 11:47:05 UTC
Sola Azor wrote:

All they need to do is build on it slowly, bit by bit, incorporate a little more WIS with each ship expansion.


Really? I haven't seen any changes in WIS aspect of eve in the last two years.

Where is the bathroom or the trophy room? Where are the kiosks to rent so I can setup my club for distribution of food, drugs, liqueur and exotic dancers for show. XD


“If you're very very stupid? How can you possibly realize you're very very stupid?

You have to be relatively intelligent to realize how stupid you really are!”
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#696 - 2013-12-23 11:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Elizabeth Brown wrote:
I think a great deal of people who think Avatar content is a bad idea think that on the basis that they believe anything CCP deliver in future will be like the CQ, pointless and devoid of content with no impact on the rest of the Eve universe. An understandable concern, sure, but that's not really what people are asking for. They're asking CCP for content. Content that impacts Eve, that is fun, replayable, profitable, risky, variable and deap.

I think CCP can achieve that, and CCP seem to think so too. They are, after all, developing an Avatar game with those aims as we speak.

This. Bravo.

It is concise, to the point, and flies in the face of all the usual arguments that a vocal minority have against Avatar content.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Baroness Vulna
Armada vi Vulnezia
#697 - 2013-12-23 13:23:05 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Elizabeth Brown wrote:
I think a great deal of people who think Avatar content is a bad idea think that on the basis that they believe anything CCP deliver in future will be like the CQ, pointless and devoid of content with no impact on the rest of the Eve universe. An understandable concern, sure, but that's not really what people are asking for. They're asking CCP for content. Content that impacts Eve, that is fun, replayable, profitable, risky, variable and deap.

I think CCP can achieve that, and CCP seem to think so too. They are, after all, developing an Avatar game with those aims as we speak.

This. Bravo.

It is concise, to the point, and flies in the face of all the usual arguments that a vocal minority have against Avatar content.



I agree that is exactly what players who support WIS are hoping for. Something that enriches EVE even more and compliments the already world record breaking space aspect of the game. We all know CCP can deliver its just a matter of convincing them that there is support for it. I think CCP is so shellshocked from Incarna that they think players will mass quit on them if they dare touch WIS. That's just not the case as evidenced by people i have talked to and this thread and other threads like it.

brought to you by -Barony of Vulnezia MMO micro nation- www.vulnezia.com Be a part of the world's first MMO Micro Nation
Broker Agent
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#698 - 2013-12-23 16:49:07 UTC
Here's hoping. Come on CCP, you know it's the right course.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#699 - 2013-12-23 17:36:55 UTC
Right. I don't think we should be trying to invent specific mechanics - that's best left to the devs - but themes and general categories, that's something we can definitely offer up.

I've already mentioned that I like the idea of heists, hacking and general misbehaviour in the Ocean's 11/Firefly/Shadowrun/corporate espionage sense. Also smuggling, gambling and general Hive of Scum and Villainy stuff.

If it were to come to combat, I would think that a cover-based, tense, tactical and very deadly shooting game should be the objective. Something where keeping your head down is absolutely vital, and which isn't even remotely based on twitchy aiming skills.

It should enhance the spaceships game by providing access to modules, implants and boosters that aren't otherwise available

On the more legitimate end of the spectrum - strategic maps for the military players, holographic planning tools for the industrialists, maybe a fitting tool so that multiple people can easily brainstorm some corporate fits right there in the game engine. Yes, I think that the purely social stuff like bars and corp offices should exist - maybe have a corp museum where you can commemorate historic events in the corporation's shared history?

Facilities to start taking over even more of the currently NPC-sourced materials. Player Agents? Player-lead RnD datacore fountains? I think it'd be fun if there was a probability-based set-and-wait minigame (maybe involving tradeable characters) for acquiring datacores, for example.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Marsha Mallow
#700 - 2013-12-23 19:52:39 UTC
Didn't know why this thread kept making me snigger even without opening it, then it hit me. Wa.king in stations. Guys, you DO realise people are already doing this. Everywhere. All the time. This is where there are so many, uhm 'accidents'. "I was asleep/making drink/reading/bio break" gets suspicious after a while. Those wa.kers! CCP even supported this behaviour by introducing a one handed station mini game. I always found those ship spinning counters disturbing, personally, especially when it gets into the thousands.

I love all the really feeble reasons to dedicate a whole dev team to this. We want to do it together! For, erm, immersion. And Role Playing! And women, women will want to join in!

Day One of Wa.king in Stations. First bar opens, 500 guys with female avatars in bikinis pile in and start slow dancing each other. The men with male avatars quickly re-skin, because everyone is ignoring them. Boob competition begins. Actual women in the room have a massive bullseye on them because they have more clothes on than everyone else. Chaos ensues. Seriously, do you want the first avatar based environment to be: Speed Queen In Space: See You on the Undock ;)

Better think up some coherent content ideas and explain
a) how they will work with this playerbase, and by this I mean, fringe gamer lunatics other gamers regard with awe and horror
b) why you can't just do this in some other avatar based game, get bored, toss it aside after a few weeks and come bac k to eve
c) how any of this possibly justifies diverting attention from CCP actually, for a change, doing exactly what we told them. Which was fix all the broken stuffs.

Why can't you just wait 3 years? It's not THAT long, really.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day