EVE General Discussion

Some of us run low sec anomalies, and do so happily. The real issue is going to be getting the ship into the right system in one piece. Once you're running the site, very few people are arsed to scan you down. Why? Because the chance of getting a kill is next to nothing if the person running the site is D-scanning like they should be. As long as you're on a gated one, you're fairly safe. If someone turns up you get your arse out of there to a safe spot or a station.


Also data sites aren't always safe. There's a nasty little trick where pirates will scan down sites, and wait for you to land on it. Last time I got ganked by a bomber I had no idea he was even closing in. I was actually damned impressed by the method if I'm honest.

Suppose it's a lexical difference. The anomalies I was referring to are the ones that show up automagically when you enter system - Hubs, etc. Since everyone can see them and warp to them with no additional effort, they are inherently more risky than anything that needs to be scanned down - DED plexes and such. And yeah - I've been jumped in data/relic sites before, so know that trick.

On an unrelated note, regarding risk. I don't see the risk:reward from plexing as all that outsized from the risk:reward from suicide ganking in highsec. If CCP is fine with the idea that the certainty of losing a 2mil Catalyst on a trial account is worth the reward of looting a 30+mil isk miner (or blapping his billion isk+ pod), then I find it hard to argue that the potential of losing your ship in a plex - no matter the value - isn't worth the LP rewards. Those rewards may need to be rebalanced, and I agree that defensive plexing should probably be incentivized more, but I don't see all that huge of a problem conceptually in the risk / reward tradeoff. PvP is inherently more of a risk in lowsec than anywhere else, and FW space is far more active from a PvP perspective than any other area of EVE. So much so that my personal feeling is that it's a riskier space to operate in than pretty much anywhere else in EVE, and should be rewarded more than even average nullsec space.

But that's me.

I really don't buy the idea that FW farmers influencing WZ control is a problem. As I've pointed out previously, historically profiteers and mercenaries have always been a part of war, and can have a significant impact on the outcome. I see no reason for FW to be different, provided that it's not breaking the game. I think the fact that FW system control has continually shifted back and forth between the factions shows that it is not; FW remains a dynamic environment rife with PvP opportunities, and no one side maintains control indefinitely. To me, that seems like everything is working the way it should, even with the presence of LP farmers.

However, I am willing to explore the idea of improvements to the timer system. I agree that it can be tedious to defend a plex after an offensive timer has been partially run down, and it does seem to put the defender at a disadvantage. I'm not sold on the idea of instantly reverting the timer to neutral once the plexer leaves the area, as that seems to be too much of an advantage to the opposition. I also don't care for the idea of having timers reverse as soon as the opposing faction enters the plex (with the first faction still present); if both factions are represented in the plex, then the most that the timer should do is freeze until one side can gain the advantage and chase the other out.

In concept, I see offensive plexing as attacking a fortification, slowly tearing down its defenses, while defensive plexing is reinforcing that point. It doesn't make sense to me that the moment an attacking force leaves, all the damage they have done is instantly repaired. Instead, I'd like to explore some other ways that the timing system could be adjusted while maintaining the viability and concept of plexing. This is really just brainstorming, throwing out a few ideas I had just to see if anyone else thinks they might be useful.

One idea I would suggest is that once an offensive plexer leaves (assuming no defending faction is present), the timer freeze at its current state for a short period of time (maybe 2-3 minutes?), allowing for a strategic retreat/regroup with the ability to quickly return and re-engage. If the plex remains empty longer than this time, the timer begins counting back to neutral at a reduced rate. The timer could also pick up speed the longer it remains empty, so that a plex that has been run for less than five minutes might take close to 10 minutes to recover on its own, but a plex run for 14 minutes could revert to neutral in maybe ~20 minutes (I'm just throwing out hypothetical numbers here to illustrate the point, all this would have to be adjusted and tested before implementation of course). Keep in mind, this is all dependent upon the plex remaining empty; a defender entering the plex could provide an accelerated return to neutral (normal plex rate + "auto reversion" rate for example), while an attacker entering the plex (with no defenders) would return the timer to advancing normally.

Another thought (which may or may not be coupled with the first) would be to decrease the length of the defensive timer. For example, what if it took half as long to defend a plex as it did to take it over? This would reflect the reality of combat that it is easier to hold a fortified position than to conquer it, and mechanically it would lessen the impact of having to run down any time that attackers had built up. The LP payouts for defense would probably need to be adjusted; defending should still pay less LP/minute than attacking, but it would still make it less painful to defend important systems.

Here's another idea: acceleration of timers based on the size of the offensive or defensive force. If you bring two ships in to attack/defend a plex, maybe it takes 33% less time to complete? You can give it diminishing returns, just like with module stacking, so that a 50+ crew can't instantly capture any plex, but make it enough of an advantage that a small defending force could quickly undo the work of lone offensive plexers. In situations where boht attackers and defenders are present, this would also open the possibility of having the timer continue to count down in favor of the larger of the two forces. If one side has three ships and the other has five, then the timer would run for the larger side as if they had two ships in a plex on their own (runs based on the difference in the number of ships).

I also like the idea of having two concurrent timers, it gives the feeling of a race to see who can either tear down the fortifications or build them up the fastest.

So, any thoughts? Do any of these ideas, either on their own or combined with others, seem like they might be viable alternatives to the current timer mechanics? As I said, I'm just kind of throwing these out there, so they probably need a bit more refinement, but I'm hoping there is at least a concept or two that might work out.

I think that the dual timers approach is probably the best if we decide to implement any timer change. Both sides have to spend exactly the same amount of time in the plex to capture it. No side therefore has an advantage.

Accelerated timer resets still put one side or the other at a disadvantage, because they have to spend a disproportionately longer time than the other side to cap the plex.

Giving a defender a shorter timer gives them a distinct advantage, and increases their relative reward per time spent in LP terms.

Adding on various pauses just adds complexity without adding a lot of additional functionality. They also provide an advantage to one side or the other.

Faster running rates for more ships gives a distinct advantage to larger groups. I shudder to think of how TEST would have been able to exploit a mechanic like that.

Dual timers have the advantages of simplicity and balance, IMO.

That's it, Vesh, I am AWOXing first thing next time I see you.

In all seriousness, anyone from the Eve universe can and should feel welcome to discuss aspects of Eve brought up in these forums. It's healthy for the game. I don't think anyone should expect this to be a change request board though and am of the opinion that if you are, then you should probably rethink the level of importance and the ability you have in influencing the developmental direction of Eve.

Could someone please do a quick writeup on how to make 400-500 mill Isk/hr using a noob alt?

I would like to know how to do this.

Thanks.

As this thread has been cleaned twice already and the discussion is running in circles again, including more than enough rule breaking posts, it gets a lock.

This thread has run its course.