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Two years later: Walking in Stations

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#281 - 2013-12-10 19:20:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
[
I don't agree with your position on WIS but that is a very good post. CCP are talented and have a tough time given the nature of the community they've got. I for one am grateful for all of the work they do on EVE but would like to see a start on WIS with a few small gameplay improvements to the CQ such as station D-scan.


The problem with "Station D-scan" is that it allows a single player to gain information about space without even the slightest risk. As it is now, you have to undock to see outside, which (out side of high sec or inside High Sec during a wardec) means you have to pick your station carefully, because some of them are kick outs.

Any game play addition that takes away an element of "I need to think 1st" is a bad addition.

Quote:

Actually it would satisfy me if they just built a PC version of dust that would start from the EVE login screen giving us the option of a 4th character slot for a dust bunnie which then loads the Dust client (maybe an optional client). That last idea would probably do more to integrate the dust/eve communities and probably save dust from dying out than anything else out there.


I think of that the same as I do WiS, it detracts from EVE because those players who might otherwise be in space creating content in a space focused game (or otherwise doing something that might make a real difference like scamming in local or playing the market) might instead (now because they don't have to buy a ps3 to do it) be playing Dust (a see-saw FPs game).



I don't see a lot of this in other games I play. I have yet to see a thread on a World of Tanks board saying "man, tanks are great but what I really want to see is the addition of GMiG (greasy mechanics in the Garage) so i can really get immersed in this tank game by playing the guy who changes the oil LOL.

Edit, and just then a friend who read this post sends me this link, rejoice, WiS guys, you're not alone, there are IiT (Infantry in TANKS game) people too. i guess the power of walking around while the people around your are riding (or flying) is a cross platform phenomenon.....
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#282 - 2013-12-10 19:21:12 UTC
Anslo wrote:
TBH you should just block Jenn. He literally repeats the same thing thinking it makes him right. It's always
1) Go play another game.
2) Eve is spaceships only.
3) You're acting entitled and are therefore irrelevant.

This is literally all he posts. He doesn't get the passion of the playerbase who like the idea od WiS and will just **** talk all day. Trust me, block him.


I did not know you could do that for the forum, now blocked, thanks Big smileShockedLol Pity it does not work for people quoting him...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Anslo
Scope Works
#283 - 2013-12-10 19:35:03 UTC
You're welcome. Now hopefully a more constructive conversationg regarding WiS implementation in a way that adds to Eve can occur without irrelevant repetition of non-facts.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Nadia Barsrallah
Nerbles
#284 - 2013-12-10 19:58:31 UTC
i wonder if the eve community should start a kick-starter for WiS content
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#285 - 2013-12-10 21:53:16 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Jenn aSide wrote:

This is a very good post in that it demonstrates the thing at the core of the WiS movement. Inability to appreciate the current EVE Online.


And now we get to the crux of the matter. One. I've been here since way before 'the current' eve online. I can appreciate it just fine, because I've been here for pretty much everything that has added up to it. I even caused some content to be added through my actions.


Jenn aSide wrote:
THIS one blew my mind, it's changes so much about how I (as an explorer) do things. If all Rubicon did was add the mobile Depot it would have still be the single best expansion I've ever been a part of (being about to switch to defensive equipment before leaving a system where I just finished a plex has already saved my machariel FOUR times).


If that smokes your noodle, I hate to have seen the mess at your keyboard if you'd have been around for Castor when we got T2 or RMR when they dropped in 23 new ships. You think Outpost is a game changer? Warp Stabs were a game changer.

I remember when they introduced your mach. The morgue would have had to squeegee your brain matter off the monitor.

Go talk to some of the old guys in your corp about how things were back in the old days of Curse and Stain and Fountain (oh my!) We got real expansions back in those days and we'd get down on our knees and pray that CCP TomB wasn't going to nerf the **** out of whatever setup we had going on.


Jenn aSide wrote:

The community says "damn it, it's a spaceship game, screw walking around and crap". CCP responds be refocusing on spaceships and people start yelling "hey, were's my WiS" lol. As soon as CCP responds to the "threadnaughts" about local and afk cloaking, the community will demand to know why they weren't consulted before CCP axes local and afk cloaking lol.


Well, to be honest I doubt we'll see the end of afk cloaks or local any time soon. CCP have already said as much.

The community did not say 'screw WiS'. a small vocal minority did (some of whom also continue to insist for some reason, that EvE ships don't have crews, despite fluff AND the fact that all eve ships originally had a crew stat.). The rest of us were pissed off because of P2W and the fact that despite promising WiS, CCP delivered absolutely nothing of the sort.


I'll wager you 500 billion isk that if a WiS expansion came out, and was in no way tied to P2W, the best you might muster is 20 guys and their alts banging on the statue.


*Snip* Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.
Gaellia Bonaventure
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#286 - 2013-12-10 22:36:12 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
We want CCP to continue with internet spaceship fixes in this internet spaceship game.


"We want CCP to continue with economic simulator fixes in this internet economic simulator game."

Fixed that for you. Happy to do it.

Bring your possibles.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#287 - 2013-12-11 00:38:38 UTC
Oh come on ... can't we all just forget that WIS is even a thing? It worked for CCP, after all.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#288 - 2013-12-11 11:12:01 UTC
This has to be the first thread I've read, where every time you F5 it, the page count goes down P
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#289 - 2013-12-11 11:13:08 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The rules:
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Posts regarding other companies and products or services are prohibited and any content of this nature will be removed. Posts regarding other games are however permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum for the purposes of discussion only.

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Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#290 - 2013-12-11 11:13:11 UTC
Ignoring pigeons...

Some people mentioned the idea of a war room, I rather like the idea of that, being only possible where you had a corp office, and with the Twitch integration it could be fun to have feeds from special camera structures back to the war room of gates and the outside of the station in that war room, something that would add immersion in my view. Technically possible I don't know, but CCP were asking for new ideas for these structures and I will add that one.

I have been playing around with having this toon having an affair with another of my toons, for me it would add to the immersion having them interact in the station, when I started playing Eve it was sold to me as a complete immersive Sci Fi game and WIS is part of that. The thing is that these things would not hurt the game, after all I have friends who spend more time walking around their hanger in Star Citizen then they do playing Eve.

Some of the pigeons have gone on about the rage about Incarna was due to WIS, it was not, it was due to pay to win!

CCP is spending time and resources to overhaul, Sov, there are a lot of players in hisec that have no interest in that at all, however I have not seen anyone from hisec go off onto the thread about it and start going on that this is not right only affects those in 0.0 etc., nope, because reasonable people who like this game understand that this is something that needs to be sorted for the good of the game, because that is what gets the major publicity. Another major issue with Eve, it is not really attracting and keeping new players, a lot of the growth in subscriptions I suspect are old players coming back, or people adding other accounts, which you need in this game. To attract certain new players you need to immerse them in Eve and WIS will do that.

For me its sort out sov, continue on the balancing where needed and have a look at WIS if you can, I hope that we will get something in stations and the CQ shows what CCP can do.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#291 - 2013-12-11 11:17:29 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


For me its sort out sov, continue on the balancing where needed and have a look at WIS if you can, I hope that we will get something in stations and the CQ shows what CCP can do.


This is the first thing he has said that I cannot fault

Good post Vladimir

+1

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#292 - 2013-12-11 11:18:05 UTC
ISD Ezwal wrote:
As always I let some edge cases stay.

You know for once I actually believe you. I can spot a few.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#293 - 2013-12-11 11:33:06 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

For me its sort out sov, continue on the balancing where needed and have a look at WIS if you can, I hope that we will get something in stations and the CQ shows what CCP can do.


Aside from the slightly creepy bit about playing out an affair using WiS, that was an excellent post. This is more or less what I think should happen. Drop the scheme of moving towards manufacturable star gates, and carry on as we are now with the balancing and maintenance effort except whilst steering towards the eventual goal of Avatar content.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#294 - 2013-12-11 11:51:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

For me its sort out sov, continue on the balancing where needed and have a look at WIS if you can, I hope that we will get something in stations and the CQ shows what CCP can do.


Aside from the slightly creepy bit about playing out an affair using WiS, that was an excellent post. This is more or less what I think should happen. Drop the scheme of moving towards manufacturable star gates, and carry on as we are now with the balancing and maintenance effort except whilst steering towards the eventual goal of Avatar content.


Actually I like the idea of the new region and manufacturing star gates, because I think Eve needs regions like 0.0 with no local, make it so that no capitals can reach it and a new sandbox...

As for the affair, a number of us were doing it in corp chat, at one point, with one guy having his two females chasing his male main and fighting over it, just fun, you know the sort of fun where women moan about the males leaving the toilet seat up all the time, anyway...

In fact if they made that screen in CQ link to a mobile camera structure it adds a reason to go there.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#295 - 2013-12-11 11:57:27 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Ignoring pigeons...

Some of the pigeons have gone on about the rage about Incarna was due to WIS, it was not, it was due to pay to win!




Not just p2w, it was an accumulation of all things happening. The NEX store, 18 month's no significant updates, crappy content preferred over polished content, years of waiting resulting in a graphic card melting 1 single room, 1000$ pants, greed is good internal news letter, CEO letter throwing oil on the fire, a "test" where you could buy a ship from within the game that skipped the entire production process, 78 dollar monocles and, and, and.

But it came down to this: CCP spend a god awful amount of time and money developing WIS and upon delivery it was an absolute and total disaster. A single room that added zero.zero meaningful gameplay to the game.

Dracvlad wrote:

CCP is spending time and resources to overhaul, Sov, there are a lot of players in hisec that have no interest in that at all, however


Talk about pigeons.... Lol


Dracvlad wrote:

For me its sort out sov, continue on the balancing where needed and have a look at WIS if you can, I hope that we will get something in stations and the CQ shows what CCP can do.


It's shelved, get over it. <3 Blink

The problem, besides technical was that CCP has/had nothing that added to any meaningful gameplay for WiS. Dancing was out of the question and shooting other people has also been so many times ruled out by a variety of dev's that you can forget about that as well.

So what they did was see if they could bring avatar game play into another form into the game with their 'Ambulation' project, exploring derelict spacecrafts for stuff that could be used to build other stuff. And from the dev posts about that you can conclude that it would work for EVE but that it's a giant project and they really don't want to ever bump their collective heads again like they did at the time of the launch of 'incarna'.

As for me, that derelict project sounded great, WiS in itself, just meh something I can do without. I have my bree here, dun need a virtual one @ 20.K isk. What?
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#296 - 2013-12-11 12:10:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Davon Mandra'thin
Pak Narhoo wrote:

But it came down to this: CCP spend a god awful amount of time and money developing WIS and upon delivery it was an absolute and total disaster. A single room that added zero.zero meaningful gameplay to the game.


Except this isn't true. Those 18 months of no content had very little to do with the CQs or WiS. During those 18 months CCP said they were doing back end fixes, maintenance, developing the CARBON engine the game now runs on. And during that time, they were developing Dust and WoD from scratch.

I don't know how this myth came about, it's just rubbish. Tippia has a link to the origin of the "18 months" threadnaught only a couple of pages into this thread, and frankly Walking in Stations didn't even come up. I can't help but feel frustrated every time someone brings this up. There is no evidence for this at all. (Also, before anyone brings up the irrelevant 'you weren't there!', I was there. Don't let the age of this character fool you.)

Tippia wrote:
The origin of 18 months, just as a further FYI.


This has been talked through over and over again. I openly challenge you, or anyone who fancies taking up the gauntlet to find a CCP quote from the time saying "Yea, we spent 18 months on WiS". If you can find it, I will hold my hands up, but truth is you wont.


Pak Narhoo wrote:

CCP has/had nothing that added to any meaningful gameplay for WiS.


As you say, shortly after Incarna they had a team put together a protoype for meaningful Avatar content with abandoned structure exploration, PvP, PvE, resource collecting, and the rest etc. So how exactly did they have no ideas for meaningful game play? At the time they said they had other priorities that developing this would detract from. But frankly, they have been concentrating on the core game play for 2 years now. Since then they have also implemented a plan to work towards another jesus feature. They could just as easily be working towards Avatar content.

CCP Unifex wrote:
It has been fantastic to see the Avatar team show everyone that there is meaningful gameplay using more than just your ship as your agent in the EVE Universe. The prototyping work they have done in Unity has allowed them to rapidly explore different themes and make a game which is challenging, fun and in the true spirit of EVE.


The Dust release schedule appears to be the main reason sited for not having the resources to do it. Dust has been released. So...

CCP Unifex wrote:
To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, I’m looking at you).
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#297 - 2013-12-11 12:12:15 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

Actually I like the idea of the new region and manufacturing star gates, because I think Eve needs regions like 0.0 with no local, make it so taht no capitals can reach it and a new snadbox...

As for the affair, a number of us were doing it in corp chat, at one point, with one guy having his two females chasing his male main and fighting over it, just fun, you know the sort of fun where women moan about the males leaving the toilet seat up all the time, anyway...

In fact if they made that screen in CQ link to a mobile camera structure it adds a reason to go there.


This guy

He cracks me so consistently

Up

Ok so RPing on one's own about fantasy harems and toilets aside....

I REALLY like the idea of a remote camera. Make that happen and Ill happily go back into CQ

A new region is great in theory, but tbh considering how full some areas are already, will it not be a short time before it too is full of folk? I know some will probably venehmently disagree but its virtually impossible to put a tower anywhere these days. (Rather than yar-booing, Im happy to take suggestions of where one can be placed these days).

Ambulation would certianly be nice, but again, it sounds like a pie to sky interaction that will be instigated by the game that herein is known as After-EvE.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#298 - 2013-12-11 12:56:06 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:

I REALLY like the idea of a remote camera. Make that happen and Ill happily go back into CQ

A new region is great in theory, but tbh considering how full some areas are already, will it not be a short time before it too is full of folk? I know some will probably venehmently disagree but its virtually impossible to put a tower anywhere these days. (Rather than yar-booing, Im happy to take suggestions of where one can be placed these days).



I suspect if they do a new region would be only cause don't want to seriously fix sov system and prefer to just write a new one from zero. That's surely more appelling from the company point ov view and marketing, but I'd rather prefer them to focus on adjusting the existing; expanding if needed.

For cameras, well, since they did tweetch integration they could do the CQ offering an option to tune on a specific stream.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#299 - 2013-12-11 13:25:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
Someone just deleted 5 pages (!) of comments in this "discussion" - out of 20 pages total. Every 4th post is against ToS. Bravo, ToS authors!

But what's the point in posting then? Thread will be decimated anyway... And decimation was more humane compared to this censorship.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#300 - 2013-12-11 13:27:39 UTC
To put it into perspective. EvE has been neglected for several years with new problems being added every expansion and never fixed. It was like you hired a contractor and they only do about 85% of the work then move onto the next project. When walking in stations came out...it was so bad that everyone started un-subbing due to rage. ccp got slapped hard by the community for ignoring their customers. so hard that the ceo almost resigned. Since then, every expansion really have been patches fixing a ton of issues and making EvE a thousand times more playable and fun. EvE is looking good now but It is not there yet for walking in stations. maybe in a couple more years after the rebalance pass is finished.