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Faction Warfare farming has to end - we want war instead of the Cloak & Stabs -game

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Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#201 - 2013-12-10 19:08:58 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Guys I got an idea.

They should remove plexes and missions in FW as they exist and morph the two.

All missions from agents should be kill scenarios. "You must kill 1 WT in xx system." When you enter that system, a plex opens up. When an enemy warps to the plex, you must kill them in honnourable Bushido combat in order to get your LP reward.

After all FW is all about PvP and nothing else. CCP said so!


An interesting idea, but I think Implementing Timer rollbacks will be enough for now.


As already shown, timer rollbacks would be a terrible and imbalanced idea.


And there's the rub. You think that it would be a terrible and imbalanced idea. However if you look at the people that are actually in FW that are posting in the thread you will find that most are in favor of Timer Rollbacks.

I'm not sure what makes you think it would be a terrible and imbalanced idea because it wouldn't stop farming, it would just make it take slightly more work.


I don't care who suggested the change or what their KB looks like (like seriously I had to LOL @ that guy who was posting about how his corp is #1 or something on KBs). The idea itself has little merit. Making it so that 1 guy could effectively null out the time investment of multiple people running plexes simply by making them warp out would cause a mass exodus of PvP pilots from FW - cuz they would no longer be able to afford ship losses.

There is already a rollback mechanic - it's call defensive plexing. But you guys don't want to do that because either


  1. You don't make enough LP from it, you dirty ISK/hr farmbears.
  2. You actually don't care about the PvE/system control aspect of FW and just want PvP kills - as such, are treating it as nothing more than a LowSec version of RvB.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#202 - 2013-12-10 19:11:02 UTC
samualvimes wrote:
Ok well your point is that it would allow the defender to capture the plex in one minute. Lets disect that alone shall we?


No, that is not my point. As I already stated, I had a brain fart when typing that post. Keep obsessing over an error I made - it shows that your argument has no merit.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#203 - 2013-12-10 19:11:28 UTC
RAW23 wrote:
Tzenick wrote:
We either have a couple people serious about trolling and derailing a thread started to facilitate constructive ideas for the betterment of FW or some people truly fear losing their easy mode ISK source. Lets be realistic here, we aren't discussing new players trying to make some start-up ISK and anyone who implies otherwise IS trolling or just oblivious. The problem we are fighting here is semi-afk plex alts impacting the warzones with as absolutely little risk as possible. I have lost count of the number of conversations I have had with these people, bragging about running incursions, fleeting up, or hi-sec mining on their mains while they make easy ISK.

Keep in mind that I don't have any issue with people making ISK, I do in fact believe people making ISK keeps things active in the warzone with plenty of ships to explode. I am also quite happy that there is a low barrier to entry into FW, for those wanting to explore the option. The problem is almost never the person who won't fight, although there are some of those and they are frustrating in another aspect. That is their choice to actively evade fighting and probing while trying to capture a complex in a defended system. No complaints there, can't make them fight, oh well we deal with it. Simple changes like timer rollbacks and rats that can tank reasonable DPS won't make it any harder for those individuals to claim a complex. They will however, and I am sure this is what is causing the arguments, make that condor fit some DPS mods in the lows and maybe use that CPU for it as well ( instead of a cloak). Why such a problem with that? They can still go run defensive complexes in their cloaked and stabbed ships. They would no longer have as large of an impact in a system they have no interest in doing anything but farming in.

Something does ultimately need to be done to limit this type of activity. I and my faction warfare allies attempt to hold the sovereignty of our home systems in the spirit of the design for little to no reward. We know how to counter it, we are here to tell CCP that it is creating serious issues that will impact the system and the game in general if we are forced to counter it in it's current iteration, in perpetuity. It has already done so with many people tiring of it and asking for changes almost immediately with more and more doing the same all the time. If all you have to say is "Oh its all about you" and "You just want to farm noobs" then you bring nothing constructive to the conversation. Try to be big boys and girls, tough as it may be, and add something to help resolve the issue rather than the simplistic trolling.


The problem is that no one has actually made a compelling case that establishes that there is a real problem. All we have heard is that people doing this stuff means that you guys have to actually cap plexes when you don't want to do so. Farmers can be killed or driven off without much difficulty. You can hold your plexes against them without much difficulty. Where is the problem? Well, the problem is that you don't want to do the necessary things, not that you can't.

As I see it, the current issue is not the mechanics, it's that you are faced at the moment with an overwhelming numerical superiority. Don't get me wrong - that absolutely sucks. But it does not mean that the mechanics you identify are broken. You are trying to hold the line against much higher numbers and that means you have to work much harder to do so if you want to maintain control. That is leading to burnout among some players who just don't enjoy doing what is needed to counter the enemy's tactics.

Now, there might be an argument to be had about balancing things when faced with a major numerical imbalance on one side of the war but that would be a different discussion. The topics that have been picked up on here, i.e. stabbed or cloaky farmers, already have direct counters and what is being argued for is a change in the rules so that you don't have to counter them because you don't enjoy doing so. If you frame the real issue honestly and acknowledge that what you object to is being swarmed by a numerically superior force and that you don't think that should be possible in the FW environment then there is the chance for a decent conversation. But currently what are being trotted out are a load of canards backed up by misleading statements.


The problem is that it takes 2-3 characters to counter a single farmer. If you force the farmer out of one plex, he just goes to another one and starts farming there. At this point, you control the plex but you have up to 2x the time to run it down because you must sit there for the time to close it plus whatever time the farmer put into it. If you stay, the farmer will close another plex before you are done closing yours. If you chase him, he will bounce back to the first plex. Rince repeat and the farmer slowly makes progress closing all the plexes while you chase him around.

If we had timer rollbacks, it would make bouncing between plexes not viable as a farming mechanism because the farmer could not run between plexes without losing any time.

The other nice idea would be to enforce that a small plex time can only be run by an AF or destroyer size hull and a medium plex only run by a cruiser size hull. If you did that, it would require bringing multiple ship types to cap plexes effectively.

.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#204 - 2013-12-10 19:16:19 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Guys I got an idea.

They should remove plexes and missions in FW as they exist and morph the two.

All missions from agents should be kill scenarios. "You must kill 1 WT in xx system." When you enter that system, a plex opens up. When an enemy warps to the plex, you must kill them in honnourable Bushido combat in order to get your LP reward.

After all FW is all about PvP and nothing else. CCP said so!


An interesting idea, but I think Implementing Timer rollbacks will be enough for now.


As already shown, timer rollbacks would be a terrible and imbalanced idea.


And there's the rub. You think that it would be a terrible and imbalanced idea. However if you look at the people that are actually in FW that are posting in the thread you will find that most are in favor of Timer Rollbacks.

I'm not sure what makes you think it would be a terrible and imbalanced idea because it wouldn't stop farming, it would just make it take slightly more work.


I don't care who suggested the change or what their KB looks like (like seriously I had to LOL @ that guy who was posting about how his corp is #1 or something on KBs). The idea itself has little merit. Making it so that 1 guy could effectively null out the time investment of multiple people running plexes simply by making them warp out would cause a mass exodus of PvP pilots from FW - cuz they would no longer be able to afford ship losses.

There is already a rollback mechanic - it's call defensive plexing. But you guys don't want to do that because either


  1. You don't make enough LP from it, you dirty ISK/hr farmbears.
  2. You actually don't care about the PvE/system control aspect of FW and just want PvP kills - as such, are treating it as nothing more than a LowSec version of RvB.


So 1 guy in a Faction Fit Daredevil with Links could cause issues for a half a dozen plexers until they ganged up and killed him? This already happens. The nulling out of their "investment" is because they were unwilling to fight for the combat plex. They can kill him, scoop the loot, and then go back to plexing like bosses. Or they can put 2 people in each plex instead of 1.

You think it would cause a mass exodus of PvP pilots from FW because this change will make it so they can't earn LP, I disagree. It is ok to disagree.

If you think this will cause a mass exodus of PVP pilots due to them not being able to afford ship loses any more though why not in tandem with this do a flat minimum payout of LP for defensive plexes completed? 1k, 2k, whatever, pick a number.

Either way, I disagree with the premise that implementing timer rollbacks would cause a mass exodus of PvP pilots.

JUSTK is recruiting
samualvimes
Brothers At Arms
#205 - 2013-12-10 19:18:55 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
samualvimes wrote:
Ok well your point is that it would allow the defender to capture the plex in one minute. Lets disect that alone shall we?


No, that is not my point. As I already stated, I had a brain fart when typing that post. Keep obsessing over an error I made - it shows that your argument has no merit.


Fair point. I didn't see that you admitted the error.

The rest of my post is still valid though. Despite you pulling the only controversial part out of context

If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#206 - 2013-12-10 19:20:56 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
So 1 guy in a Faction Fit Daredevil with Links could cause issues for a half a dozen plexers until they ganged up and killed him? This already happens. The nulling out of their "investment" is because they were unwilling to fight for the combat plex. They can kill him, scoop the loot, and then go back to plexing like bosses. Or they can put 2 people in each plex instead of 1.


That QQcat guy was just QQcatting that it's unfair how it takes 2-3 guys to shut down 1 plexer.

Now you're suggesting that 1 guy should be able to shut down 10 plexers.

And you're also suggesting that people should have reduced payouts by proxy of needing more people to defend the plexes - because heaven forbid they not take a fight they'll lose (such as a Daredevil vs a Rifter). So you're also punishing people for not having the right amount of SP or the right type of ship.

And what happens if you put two people in a plex? 4 people will show up to run them out.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#207 - 2013-12-10 19:22:21 UTC
RAW23 wrote:
Wouldn't the consequence of timer rollbacks be that one guy in a Dramiel (or most any other faction frigate) would be able to defend about ten systems from all solo T1 frigs? Basically, if the timer rolled back each time it would mean that anyone in a ship superior to a T1 frig could push any solo guys out of several plexes every single minute just by patrolling them and in a fast ship would be able to continually reset the timers in many systems. T1 frigs would be pretty much useless and bringing a bigger or better ship than a solo plexer would always be sufficient to secure as many timers as the bigger ship could reach within the countdown window. I just can't see that being viable.


I don't think anybody is asking for an instant reset of the plex timer. Just that if you push somebody out of a plex, the timer automatically starts rolling back to "neutral". Then there is the problem of the farmer didn't actually run, but cloaked up. You could solve this is two ways.

1. Have the button lock any opposition militia in the plex to prevent cloaking.
2. Have the timer rollback to "neutral" at increased speed "2x-5x" while the opposition militia is on the button. Timer would run at normal speed after it reaches "neutral"

.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#208 - 2013-12-10 19:22:23 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
Tzenick wrote:
We either have a couple people serious about trolling and derailing a thread started to facilitate constructive ideas for the betterment of FW or some people truly fear losing their easy mode ISK source. Lets be realistic here, we aren't discussing new players trying to make some start-up ISK and anyone who implies otherwise IS trolling or just oblivious. The problem we are fighting here is semi-afk plex alts impacting the warzones with as absolutely little risk as possible. I have lost count of the number of conversations I have had with these people, bragging about running incursions, fleeting up, or hi-sec mining on their mains while they make easy ISK.

Keep in mind that I don't have any issue with people making ISK, I do in fact believe people making ISK keeps things active in the warzone with plenty of ships to explode. I am also quite happy that there is a low barrier to entry into FW, for those wanting to explore the option. The problem is almost never the person who won't fight, although there are some of those and they are frustrating in another aspect. That is their choice to actively evade fighting and probing while trying to capture a complex in a defended system. No complaints there, can't make them fight, oh well we deal with it. Simple changes like timer rollbacks and rats that can tank reasonable DPS won't make it any harder for those individuals to claim a complex. They will however, and I am sure this is what is causing the arguments, make that condor fit some DPS mods in the lows and maybe use that CPU for it as well ( instead of a cloak). Why such a problem with that? They can still go run defensive complexes in their cloaked and stabbed ships. They would no longer have as large of an impact in a system they have no interest in doing anything but farming in.

Something does ultimately need to be done to limit this type of activity. I and my faction warfare allies attempt to hold the sovereignty of our home systems in the spirit of the design for little to no reward. We know how to counter it, we are here to tell CCP that it is creating serious issues that will impact the system and the game in general if we are forced to counter it in it's current iteration, in perpetuity. It has already done so with many people tiring of it and asking for changes almost immediately with more and more doing the same all the time. If all you have to say is "Oh its all about you" and "You just want to farm noobs" then you bring nothing constructive to the conversation. Try to be big boys and girls, tough as it may be, and add something to help resolve the issue rather than the simplistic trolling.


The problem is that no one has actually made a compelling case that establishes that there is a real problem. All we have heard is that people doing this stuff means that you guys have to actually cap plexes when you don't want to do so. Farmers can be killed or driven off without much difficulty. You can hold your plexes against them without much difficulty. Where is the problem? Well, the problem is that you don't want to do the necessary things, not that you can't.

As I see it, the current issue is not the mechanics, it's that you are faced at the moment with an overwhelming numerical superiority. Don't get me wrong - that absolutely sucks. But it does not mean that the mechanics you identify are broken. You are trying to hold the line against much higher numbers and that means you have to work much harder to do so if you want to maintain control. That is leading to burnout among some players who just don't enjoy doing what is needed to counter the enemy's tactics.

Now, there might be an argument to be had about balancing things when faced with a major numerical imbalance on one side of the war but that would be a different discussion. The topics that have been picked up on here, i.e. stabbed or cloaky farmers, already have direct counters and what is being argued for is a change in the rules so that you don't have to counter them because you don't enjoy doing so. If you frame the real issue honestly and acknowledge that what you object to is being swarmed by a numerically superior force and that you don't think that should be possible in the FW environment then there is the chance for a decent conversation. But currently what are being trotted out are a load of canards backed up by misleading statements.


The problem is that it takes 2-3 characters to counter a single farmer. If you force the farmer out of one plex, he just goes to another one and starts farming there. At this point, you control the plex but you have up to 2x the time to run it down because you must sit there for the time to close it plus whatever time the farmer put into it. If you stay, the farmer will close another plex before you are done closing yours. If you chase him, he will bounce back to the first plex. Rince repeat and the farmer slowly makes progress closing all the plexes while you chase him around.

If we had timer rollbacks, it would make bouncing between plexes not viable as a farming mechanism because the farmer could not run between plexes without losing any time.

The other nice idea would be to enforce that a small plex time can only be run by an AF or destroyer size hull and a medium plex only run by a cruiser size hull. If you did that, it would require bringing multiple ship types to cap plexes effectively.


Interesting idea but I think the enforced ship size would be too hard on the newbros and would feel like they couldn't contribute.

Implement Timer Rollbacks Please. Any chance we can get a CCP comment on this please?

JUSTK is recruiting
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#209 - 2013-12-10 19:23:08 UTC
I think it's a great idea that a gang of pirates that have nothing to do with FW should be able to affect system control by running people out of plexes and rolling their timers back. +1

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
samualvimes
Brothers At Arms
#210 - 2013-12-10 19:23:35 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
So 1 guy in a Faction Fit Daredevil with Links could cause issues for a half a dozen plexers until they ganged up and killed him? This already happens. The nulling out of their "investment" is because they were unwilling to fight for the combat plex. They can kill him, scoop the loot, and then go back to plexing like bosses. Or they can put 2 people in each plex instead of 1.


That QQcat guy was just QQcatting that it's unfair how it takes 2-3 guys to shut down 1 plexer.

Now you're suggesting that 1 guy should be able to shut down 10 plexers.

And you're also suggesting that people should have reduced payouts by proxy of needing more people to defend the plexes - because heaven forbid they not take a fight they'll lose (such as a Daredevil vs a Rifter). So you're also punishing people for not having the right amount of SP or the right type of ship.

And what happens if you put two people in a plex? 4 people will show up to run them out.


If someone is in a T1 frigate on their own in FW and get forced out of a plex by a daredevil because they had no back up you actually think it's right they should be able to resume exactly where they left off?

What they are saying is that the plexer should hold the plex for the time to keep it. if that means succesfully holding 5 plexes of 2 people instead of 10 plexes of 1 so be it. This encourages teamwork which is a good thing.

If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#211 - 2013-12-10 19:25:47 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
So 1 guy in a Faction Fit Daredevil with Links could cause issues for a half a dozen plexers until they ganged up and killed him? This already happens. The nulling out of their "investment" is because they were unwilling to fight for the combat plex. They can kill him, scoop the loot, and then go back to plexing like bosses. Or they can put 2 people in each plex instead of 1.


That QQcat guy was just QQcatting that it's unfair how it takes 2-3 guys to shut down 1 plexer.

Now you're suggesting that 1 guy should be able to shut down 10 plexers.

And you're also suggesting that people should have reduced payouts by proxy of needing more people to defend the plexes - because heaven forbid they not take a fight they'll lose (such as a Daredevil vs a Rifter). So you're also punishing people for not having the right amount of SP or the right type of ship.

And what happens if you put two people in a plex? 4 people will show up to run them out.


I'm not sure how often you play in FW or if at all, but it is common practice to have more than 1 person in a plex if you actually are trying to drive up/down the contested rate of a system. Especially for newbros.


"And what happens if you put two people in a plex? 4 people will show up to run them out" <- happens all the time, how does implementing Timer Rollbacks change that? And why would you want that to change? Being on the side of the 2 that kill the 4 is an amazing feeling.

JUSTK is recruiting
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#212 - 2013-12-10 19:26:54 UTC
samualvimes wrote:
If someone is in a T1 frigate on their own in FW and get forced out of a plex by a daredevil because they had no back up you actually think it's right they should be able to resume exactly where they left off?


You're right, FW should only be a place for ~ELITEPVPERS~. Newbies should stick to RvB.

samualvimes wrote:
What they are saying is that the plexer should hold the plex for the time to keep it. if that means succesfully holding 5 plexes of 2 people instead of 10 plexes of 1 so be it. This encourages teamwork which is a good thing.


Cool, then make LP payouts individual (instead of split between who's there) and increase them.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#213 - 2013-12-10 19:28:06 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
I think it's a great idea that a gang of pirates that have nothing to do with FW should be able to affect system control by running people out of plexes and rolling their timers back. +1


They already blue up with FW corps to help take/hold systems, kill caps, etc. Welcome to the Sandbox.

This might give FW guys more reason to go fight the local pirate groups (not that we really need more reasons to look for fights). Twisted

JUSTK is recruiting
samualvimes
Brothers At Arms
#214 - 2013-12-10 19:28:43 UTC  |  Edited by: samualvimes
Xuixien wrote:
samualvimes wrote:
If someone is in a T1 frigate on their own in FW and get forced out of a plex by a daredevil because they had no back up you actually think it's right they should be able to resume exactly where they left off?


You're right, FW should only be a place for ~ELITEPVPERS~. Newbies should stick to RvB.

samualvimes wrote:
What they are saying is that the plexer should hold the plex for the time to keep it. if that means succesfully holding 5 plexes of 2 people instead of 10 plexes of 1 so be it. This encourages teamwork which is a good thing.


Cool, then make LP payouts individual (instead of split between who's there) and increase them.


Did I say that? no.

If someone turns up with a superior fighting force then why should you be allowed to keep the field?

If a T1 frig can't win bring 2

Edit: I admit LP splitting does tend to preclude the whole teamwork thing, however rollbacks mean team up or you might get NOTHING

If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming.
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#215 - 2013-12-10 19:28:53 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
samualvimes wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
Wouldn't the consequence of timer rollbacks be that one guy in a Dramiel (or most any other faction frigate) would be able to defend about ten systems from all solo T1 frigs? Basically, if the timer rolled back each time it would mean that anyone in a ship superior to a T1 frig could push any solo guys out of several plexes every single minute just by patrolling them and in a fast ship would be able to continually reset the timers in many systems. T1 frigs would be pretty much useless and bringing a bigger or better ship than a solo plexer would always be sufficient to secure as many timers as the bigger ship could reach within the countdown window. I just can't see that being viable.


Yeah but if there are 10 people in 10 plexes they should be able to take a dramiel don't you think? Maybe if they you know teamed up?


Oh cool - then the Dramiel pilot wouldn't even have to warp into 10 plexes in order to rollback 10 plexes!


Only if they make the strategic decision to actively engage the Darmiel pilot together. Then it is a choice of killing the dram and rerunning the timers with all of them, a select few of them, or playing avoidance games (warping around to 10 plexes and activating the gate takes time).

Also, I generally don't think the best implementation would be instant rollbacks of the timer as soon as someone cloaks or warps out of the plex because of this scenario. I think it should start counting back to the original time at an enhanced rate (10 seconds for ever 1 or so) until it reaches its base timer). But that is really more of tweaking the idea than tossing the idea out itself.

Why are you against timer rollbacks?



So you want the timer to count backwards 10x as fast as it counts upwards?

Yeah. Reset all your plexes to chase the Dramiel around. Then go back to running timers so that... another solo pilot could come in and make you reset all your plexes. Wow - that would be a UTOPIA man.

So if you plex for 10 minutes, and warp out - the timer will be back to 0 by the time you return - which is effectively the same net outcome to an instant rollback. Or if you cloak, the WT only has to sit there for a minute and not only rolls back the timer, but captures the plex. In 1 minute. Nice idea!!!!


The best timer rollback idea goes something like this:


1. You start capturing a plex like today.
2. If you leave the plex, timer freezes just like today.
3. If a militia member enters a plex that has been run by the opposition militia, then the plex starts running back to neutral at an increased rate. Once it reaches neutral, it runs as it does today.
4. If the timer is running down to neutral and the last militia left the plex, the timer continue to run to neutral at normal time.
5. If the opposition militia enters a plex that is auto-running to neutral, it stops auto-running and runs as it does today.

.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#216 - 2013-12-10 19:29:48 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
I'm not sure how often you play in FW or if at all


I did it for a year.

Thanatos Marathon wrote:
but it is common practice to have more than 1 person in a plex if you actually are trying to drive up/down the contested rate of a system


Only when the system is already near vulnerable and you're trying to take the iHub and expect an enemy response.


Thanatos Marathon wrote:
"And what happens if you put two people in a plex? 4 people will show up to run them out" <- happens all the time, how does implementing Timer Rollbacks change that?


You can't figure it out?

You're going to have escalating gangs competing over paltry LP payouts.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#217 - 2013-12-10 19:32:02 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
samualvimes wrote:
If someone is in a T1 frigate on their own in FW and get forced out of a plex by a daredevil because they had no back up you actually think it's right they should be able to resume exactly where they left off?


You're right, FW should only be a place for ~ELITEPVPERS~. Newbies should stick to RvB.

samualvimes wrote:
What they are saying is that the plexer should hold the plex for the time to keep it. if that means succesfully holding 5 plexes of 2 people instead of 10 plexes of 1 so be it. This encourages teamwork which is a good thing.


Cool, then make LP payouts individual (instead of split between who's there) and increase them.



You're right, FW should only be a place for ~ELITEPVPERS~. Newbies should stick to RvB. <-- I am a 2013 player and am not an elitepvper and I support this change. Why do you think young players won't be able to deal with Timer Rollbacks? For young players teaming up to take down the big bad monster is a common tactic. And some day if they keep at it they become the big bad monster!

JUSTK is recruiting
Burtakus
Lone W0lf Society
#218 - 2013-12-10 19:42:17 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
I think it's a great idea that a gang of pirates that have nothing to do with FW should be able to affect system control by running people out of plexes and rolling their timers back. +1


This already happens quite frequently and often the pirates are their to "protect" their farmers.

Regarding rollbacks, there should be a natural state for a timer. The timer should seek to revert back to that natural state unless there is a force present to cause it to to move one way or the other.

Rollbacks if implemented should be a two way street so that if you are offensive plexing and get forced out or cloak the timer returns to its natural state. Conversely if you are defensive plexing the timer would return to its natural state if you are forced out or forced to cloak.

The rate of return should not be instant but it could be linear or my preference would follow a logarithmic curve where the asymptote is the natural state of the plex timer.

In the case of two opposing factions being present in the plex at the same time keep it the same as it is now with the timer freezing where it is.

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#219 - 2013-12-10 19:51:11 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Roime wrote:
As everybody knows by now, FW experience has been ruined by allowing low-SP alts in stabbed T1 frigates and empty clones to both farm insane amounts of ISK and affect warzone control.

Instead of fighting each others, the PVP-minded FW pilots are forced to chase farmers out of plexes- endlessly. This is the most frustrating thing I've faced in EVE, and it's now time for CCP to acknowledge the situation.

My corpmate wrote a good blog post that lists the commonly suggested solutions:

- timer rollbacks
- buffing the NPCs
- rebalancing warp core stabs
- cloak prevention mechanism

Currently the farmers risk nearly nothing in space assets, time spent or lost value- cheapest PVE ships possible in game, timers don't reset and there's always a new plex to farm.

If you support fixing FW, post your ideas here, on all relevant forum sections or anywhere, contact your CSM representative or CCP directly. I know I speak for most FW pilots when I say enough is enough, farming has to end. It's up to us to make CCP wake up.


Too many powerful groups are heavily invested in FW farming for CSM, or CCP, to do anything about it.
That being said, if the day comes that CCP does nerf FW LP income, then I imagine they will have already axed incursion income, and L4 income.


Don't be silly, the wild swings back and forth make farming FW not worth the time for us.


Now our highsec incursion alt program, that's quite another matter.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#220 - 2013-12-10 19:51:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
You know, one of the things players have been pining for since I started playing was more varied environments. Don't tell me it's hard to do... it's not. CCP could put in an area of effect environment into FW complexes that count towards control filled with gas clouds (preventing cloak) and write a script (it could be attached to your ship invisibly when you acceleration gate into the plex using the same mechanic limited engagements and suspect timers use) which adds a "spool up" timer to your warp drive, giving you some delay added to entering warp. The tec already exists on TQ to do this, and if I've read this thread right it should pretty much solve the problem, yes? All CCP has to do is decide to do anything.

Just a suggestion.

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