Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I'm willing to see flaws in my proposal. So far, one flaw I see is that the big alliances will schedule their cap movement to maximize the amount of total jumps they can make, as opposed to making several jumps at once, which might result in more headache for some people but probably less for others. The basis of my proposal is centered around the idea that capital ships should take days or weeks to move all the way across the galaxy. I want to propose a setup that makes short range deployments easy and fast while making long range deployments time-dependent without being time-consuming. I think the big alliances should be forced to stage their capitals in the places they want them, while small alliances can work with other alliances for coverage while keeping their own capital ships together for more strength. Shortening the cooldown to minutes defeats the purpose of my proposal entirely. While it might have merit, it would be toward some other end.

I'm not saying my proposal is necessarily good, I'm trying to weigh the benefits and drawbacks of it. Some of you are picking out errors with it too quickly without considering the full impacts of such a change on a macroscopic scale. I hear a lot of people suggesting that one particular side will gain an advantage with the jump cooldown by doing X tactic which involves not having the cooldown. I don't think anyone will gain a strong advantage over anyone else with this idea. I don't think it'll change the power projection, or offset the balance of power. I don't think it'll make Goons any less of a menace to the galaxy, or Pandemic Legion's titanfleet any less threatening. My goal with my proposal is to suggest a system in which capital force projection will take a large amount of time and planning, which makes two primary things happen:
1.) capitals aren't the I-WIN button - there will be times when subcaps are better
2.) when a large and powerful alliance roflstomps a region, they'll have to put in a significant amount of time and effort to clear it, making nullsec residency less volatile

As for jump freighters, I think they should also have a cooldown, but that change should only come after nnullsec production is buffed to the point that it actually becomes cheaper to produce in nullsec than in highsec. I would then want it to be expensive to offload these goods in highsec, decreasing the resources available in highsec and making stuff cheaper in nullsec due to the surplus. This would make it easier and cheaper for people to suicide large numbers of tech 1 ships to fuel their war efforts, and would make it harder to bankrupt an alliance far enough to prevent them from being able to fight. Scaring them to highsec is something else entirely. Also, I think highseccers should have to put considerable time and resources into buying those bling ships that aren't put at much risk. Battleships should be cheap in nullsec and expensive in highsec.

Does anyone know what the diameter of New Eden is in light years? I've been throwing light year numbers around without a good frame of reference.

I think the jump range should be far enough that properly staged ships could jump into almost any part of a region, but no more than about one full region in a jump. Should take at least 3-4 jump cooldowns to move across the galaxy.

Looks to be a smidge over 100 lightyears north to south, but that's just from this, and I was eyeballing for the top and bottom points.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Thanatos,544/ZDYA-G:QYZM-W

And can you explain how PLs titan fleet would still be a threat if they were literally a month away from a fight? If you knew where PL were, you would be completely immune to them...

The problem I see is that the people who have a lot of capital ships, even moderately wealthy alliances, can bring all of them to a fight within hours or less. It doesn't matter if they are next door or on the other side of the galaxy. I see that as a problem because as time goes on, more and more capital ships are built. They become more and more accessible, people have larger and larger numbers of them. I think giving them a jump drive cooldown would help dilute them a bit, making fights use smaller numbers of capital ships for the same number of subcaps. It shouldn't have any effect on the strength of any alliance, even PL--they may be very reliant on their supers, but they have a very strong subcap fleet too. They also have the resources to keep up a fight longer than most others can hold out for.

Knowing where PLs titans are doesn't help you all that much, if you are unprepared to set up a defense. If they are on your doorstep, you have two options: fight and lose, or evacuate in a big rush. It may take them a week or two to get them over to you, but it'll take you a week or two to evacuate. Who knows, maybe they weren't even heading for you. Maybe giving titans a long jump drive cooldown will cause titan repositioning to scare small alliances, making them run in terror without any fighting being done.

If the galaxy is 90 light years across, then I think 20 light years is plenty good for jump range. If you get 2 jumps before cooldown, you can reposition your ships up to 40 light years away in one run, 80 in 2. You can go almost anywhere from anywhere, and anywhere from almost anywhere in 2 movements. That means if you are repositioning dreads or carriers, the enemy has perhaps a day or so to respond. If you are repositioning titans or supercarriers, they have a couple days to respond.

It's an interesting proposal, and I do like to give the defender the advantage. I don't want them to have too much advantage but I don't think we're in danger of that. Also, I don't want the most powerful alliances to be able to hold the same space indefinitely just because nobody can attack them. But I like the idea of giving some sort of bonus to jumping to POS-mounted cyno beacons. I don't want to see cyno activation delays because the pilot must wait in space while the delay happens. That's one reason I'm opposed to 30 minute cooldowns for capital ships, because cap pilots will be forced to wait them out. If it's hours, they'll probably go home and come back to it tomorrow. They might switch to another toon or even jump clone to Earth to engage in social relations with the females.

Capital jumps are fine.




No they don't, they don't ruin fight. I hear a cap is tackled or structure bashing our fleets can't get out of the station fast enough to speed down their way. They only ruin fights for cowards. Small alliances are hindered by this but they will be hindered regardless. The thousand man alliance isn't going to take on the 10k man alliance even if the larger can't field capitals rapidly

The issue is with SOV mechanics not capitals.

Capitals are used more than just SOV battles, and jump timers would be limiting them to that. I've seen people jump dreads into hostile systems to pop JF's. You think they'd do that if they had to sit in hostile space for 3hours? People have capitals you think they are going to risk them to save other fleets?




ya they do it because they can, what's wrong with doing that now? Large alliance also field 100+man fleets because they can


why do you have to make it impossible to bring them? I don't understand. This is a ship you can bring fly in game, and you guys want to make it so they are station babysitters just because you can't deal with them even though countless other people have learned proficiently how to deal with them

ya smaller alliance will field tons of subcaps you know who also fields tons of subcaps large alliances. The only thing you all are trying to promote is forcing others to play at your desired level.

Small inexperienced alliances aren't supposed to take on mega alliances and coalitions easily by themselves


All this topic is is just a covert "remove capitals from the game and make my game play less risky"
all because you all don't want to risk big ships to fight big ships

it's the same argument over and over

"oh we would of won if they didn't have caps!"

"oh we would of won if we could match their numbers!"

"oh we would of won if we didn't derp!"

If you're not fighting because caps are on the field each time, then you're never going to fight. or you know what concede and regroup, perhaps make some plans with allies to take them on. The notion that a small alliance should be able to stand toe to toe with a large alliance "just because" makes zero sense. Either you get the fire power or skill to take them on or you find another area to wage your battles.

Well the major issue is you're essentially forcing a dedication to a fight. having a cool down timer means you're in it for good or bad. I've seen many cap on cap fights where one side retreated when the fight took a turn for the worse. It's a logically style of play after all. These are massively expensive ships and a cool down is creating a massive glaring vulnerability.

Capital fights in EvE are what start breaking the bank of larger alliances. If they had cooldowns they would only use them if it was a sure thing to decimate the other side. With no option to retreat they will never be risked with any chance of uncertainty by anyone. Unless they're the type of people who have caps to spare.

There's all the issue of deep nullsec alliances, assisting other alliances and wandering battle groups.

If you're 3+ jumps deep into nullsec, would you want that trip to take 6 hours min of play time? That's not having fun, that's traveling, a necessary by product of the game but not something that should be made even worse.

Rather than making the trip quickly so you can get to playing the game, you are forced to delegate a full night or day to moving to where you're going to play. And what about mass exodus if your alliance is being steamrolled or you had a director level spy? Limiting them to one jump during an exodus out of now hostile territory is almost suicidal for cap pilots.

And what about allies who are under attack? I know many don't like field of blues, but that is the choice of those organizations. We shouldn't be in the business in dictating how many allies you can have by limiting immediate help to 1 jump range.

And wandering alliances. I know of a few alliances that travel around to find new fights. Capital ships are combat transports and cooldown timers would be severely limiting wandering entities from functioning. Essentially you'd be turning moving day into moving month. If i can only play 2 nights a week, i don't want to spend it all moving with no ability to play. I want the move to be as quick as possible so i can get on with playing the game.


And finally these are the most expensive ships in the game, and this is just adding pointless risk to promote personal preference of game play. What about all the pilots that love throwing capitals into battle? Youre essentially telling those pilots youre dedicated to that one jump better make it good or else sucks to be you for the next 2 hours. If they jump on a fleet and the fleet leaves. Well shoot, they can't go try and chase them, they don't get any fight for the next 2 hours. Might as well log off or cloak up and watch t.v Which if that is your only option when playing a game, because of mechanics to log off or cloak up. That's just bad mechanics plain and simple. This is a game, any game mechanic that prevents pilots from playing the game should never be implemented


I would also like to add in structure bashing. Caps are used to make it go quickly. You risk expensive ships to spend less time structure bashing. After conquering a region you can be left with dozens of systems filled with space junk from the past alliance. 2 hour+ timer would make this clean up take weeks on end

I like the initiative. TiDi should naturally not affect it, perhaps the jump delay would not be tied to ship rather to character?

An hour or longer cooldown will make them used much less. Its a huge QoL issue for people doing logistics, or people just trying to get move to their staging area. I don't think the idea is automatically bad, rather there's a tipping point where a cooldown will just suck all the fun out, and that tipping point is significantly below the 30 minute mark. People will of course still use them, but as CCP has said, if the best way to play the game is to do something that is optimal and terribly unfun, then players will do it while also hating it. They would try to avoid designing gameplay like this.

Plus the metagame would shift heavily towards baiting out and tracking an opponent's jump cooldown which may or may not be a good development. IMO it would be kind of lame. I'd rather see capitals have to rely on their own capacitor regen before jumping again, or going with the jump drive spool up idea.

Remove jump drives

Enable capitals to use gates only


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(as good a proposal as OPs)