Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Unfortunetly Lucas I firmly believe you will never be rid of AFK'ers in any form in this game, the only thing you can possibly do at this point is divert the eye from it, out of sight out of mind so to speak, replace local chat with regional chat as I suggested. Now no one knows who is where without being active and on the hunt. And if that cloaker drops a cyno on your head, well guess what, he wasn't AFK after all

Local... That isn't where the problem is at - it is simply 1 way to spot a problem. Sorry but removal doesn't float as "the fix" - that's just a gankers wet dream which would back-fire very quickly as people stopped operating in that space.

It's not being a coward to avoid a bubble gate camp in your battleship and it's not being a coward to avoid space where they can spot your activity from across the entire universe with ease while you can't see hostiles coming after you.

If they cannot earn more than it costs, they will stop trying and "can't see" means they will lose more than they can earn meaning they will not be able to do those activities in that space.

1) You can't bring up the map and view usage statistics for the last x-amount of time on a wormhole. You can with k-space systems. (who's ratting in which systems? There's my target base)

2) You don't have belts nor ratters in wormholes. You do in k-space and all such belts are easily navigated to in k-space systems. (anyone can navigate to a belt. Finding an exploration site in w-space takes a bit more and can be seen via D-Scan when you try to probe them down)

3) You can't bring up a map and right-click to go to a wormhole. You need to find an entrance to it but K-space you can. (so it's *VERY* easy to find an active "target rich" system to go with little effort, vs trying to hunt in w-space)

These are all known (albeit it usually ignored) differences between the 2 types of space and removal of local *WILL NOT* bring about balancing nor correcting these issues - it will only drastically reduce to eliminate ratting activities in nullsec which is the primary source of the resident's income.

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The cloak needs a bit to fix it but how to do so is a problem.

"fuel" - this is a common idea but it has problems.

This cripples cloak use for deep exploration of dangerous space. Not a good solution if someone wants to spend a few days or weeks logging in and out while going through w-space or the like and going deep into nullsec with a cloaked ship, to not have the fuel to get back out using a cloak... Not good.

Any kind of "fix" for this needs to leave the use of the ship intact while limiting it more to actual use purposes and not "Parked AFK" from server startup to downtime.

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The best solution I've seen is via adding a cycle timer to the cloaking device (60s per cycle) and have it use 1% more cap than the ship can generate (so you can't stack it up with cap rechargers to get back the perma-cloaked ability).

So you could leave it AFK for up to a maximum of 1hr 40min before the cloak would drop (longer with skills) - less if the cap isn't at full when you start the cloak up.

Adjust the cloaking skill to give 10% longer duration per cycle, adjust the meta variations on the duration and you can add value them, etc. In other words with cloaking 5, you could last for 2.5 hours maximum.

It still has some issues but it would open up a lot of other potential areas of enhancement for cloaking - such things as potentially allowing some modules to be used while cloaked because they would have steep usage penalties (like using an MWD or AB while cloaked. No cap recharging means your cloak life is being burned up much faster).

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Again, that is about the best one I've seen but all this chatter about just getting rid of local in k-space with no mention of replacement? ... Sure; a brilliant solution for removal of most other activities from that space.

You *MUST* be able to earn more than it costs or you won't find people trying to earn in such locations and highsec has a large enough population without that many additional immigrants from null who need to earn so they can afford to PvP.

I've explained this easily 100 times now. Just because 2 things can affect each other does not mean that they have to go hand in hand. Just because removing local would cause AFK cloaking to be pointelss does NOT mean they must be dealt with together.
Seriously, why is this so hard to understand. It's a really REALLY basic concept.

Except changing local does not affect everyone negatively. Cloakers would benefit greatly from it. Why do you think so many cloakers want it to happen? With your idea you are still buffing a group and nerfing everyone else. Don't bother listing the reasons you've convinced yourself your idea is different, I'm really past the point of listening.

No, you are dismissing any idea that doesn't start with local. Where you can find any hole in either the idea or even the language used to convey it, you will pick away at it. If you can;t, you'll simply ignore it and go off in a different direction. Yet you don't look at the obvious imbalances in your own idea. And you have no interest in it. Right from post 1, this whole thread was a giant troll thread design to take the **** out of any ideas that aren't yours.

But seriously guy, I'm done discussing this with you. In your mind you are right, I am wrong, and nothing I say will change that. No matter what I say you will have an issue with it before you've even read it, so it's completely pointless discussing it with you. I really can't be bothered to get dragged around in circle over and over again listening to you go on and on and on about local. As far as I am concerned local should NOT be changed to correct AFK cloaking, and ALL AFK play should be nerfed.
When CCP post more info, I'll discuss it in their thread, not in your troll thread here.
End of disucssion.

This change would ruin wormholes.

How?

Honestly I don't see how.

Dude you look really foolish coming in this late into a thread, not reading anything and making these kinds of statements. CCP will not simply remove local, they have said so. I do not advocate for it, Nikk does not. Neither does Mag's. Virtually everyone who thinks local is the root problem with AFK cloaking does not want to simply remove local.

But that does not meant one cannot change local so it is no longer an intel tool. CCP would like to do this.

Really, read back over some of the posts. Not all of them that would be silly. About as silly as coming in here and spouting off after having read none of them. The conversation here has moved beyond simply, "Remove local."

Too bad for you CCP has now come out in favor of wanting to decouple Local and intel.

Do try to keep up.

That explains nothing. I was wondering how you can write one minute, "Okay, yeah removing local would solve the AFK cloaking problem, but it would be bad...." Then in the next minute write, "AFK cloaking has nothing to do with local!"

It is like saying, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people.....But Guns really do kill people."

It is...well...contradicting yourself. How can you do that?

I know who the AWOXer was, I just have no km proof of it.

Carriers are easy to scan down, but the guy landed right next to me about the time it would take to immediately warp to me from a gate over 70 AU away. This was back when probes launched one by one and frigates warped large distances slowly because the warp acceleration and deceleration took up much of the distance/time in warp. I hit warp the instant I saw him in system, which left him with about 30s to get the probes launched, find the general area, move the probes in for the lock, and then warp to the result. No, probing was entirely out of the question for the time he had available.


I am upset by that loss, but now I am wondering how you were able to turn 1 AWOX loss into 3. Show me how you duplicated the carrier losses that so I can learn how to duplicate the carriers themselves.

As for the proof, show us the evidence "that people did it before cynos were a thing." I'd like to see how you came to believe that. And by "did it" I assume that we are talking about people complaining about Buzzards AFK camping. Even if it was so back in the beginning of Eve, I would not be surprised given the lack of population and thus lack of intel networks out in null sec. When null was largely empty, it was much easier for people to roam without getting reported. Even still, a handful of players should be able to dispatch a Buzzard within seconds, so I am interested in seeing what their issue was. Link your source on that so that we can examine it closer.


The AWOXer probably just took his time slow boating while cloaked over to my carrier while the system was free of reds. Or he could have warped in and out cloak a couple of times using strategic bookmarks. The point is that anyone stationary can have an AWOXer slow boat while cloaked to near their position for acquisition of the AWOX bookmark. No stationary ship is safe against the AWOXer because you never have to see them except in local, especially with supercaps and cynos. Even moving ships can have a cloaked AWOXer keeping at 30 km in line with a celestial or gate and leading a little for the warp-in time.

You clearly do not want a discussion as you and lucas have both convinced yourselves that we just want to break the game.