Player Features and Ideas Discussion

EDIT: forums ate my post.

Sorry the game just does not work this way currently. You cannot jump to a cyno that is in the same system as you. It is even in the lore. The only way this would work is for cynos to broadcast to fleets not in system.

As for play possibilities it may not open up anything but make people who are already cautious of using capitals and super capitals even more so. After all, if you cyno for a movement op is broadcasted then possibility of a hot drop increases dramatically. Similarly for logistics work in null.

And as I have already pointed out cynos are not necessarily mechanisms of blue balling, they can and have lead to fights. But this may very well lead to more blue balling. If you know where the evac cyno will be a hostile capital/super capital fleet could in effect follow any capitals/super capitals looking to extract. It will also make logging off a more desirable option in this case...and if the goal here is to promote play, promoting a mechanic that leads people to logging off is a strange way to go about it.

In fact, if you look at the battle I linked above, there was no hostile cyno. The attacking players managed to tackle supers and carriers, get a cyno in system and batphone people to pull in 70 dreads and a fleet of sub-caps. The resulting slaughter was glorious and fun. I'm not sure this kind of thing would have happened if either the 60 second targeting delay and the "can use hostile cynos" would have been in effect. No supers would have died and the titan probably would have lived too.

First off, putting 70 dreads on the field with 10 supers would have meant the people being hot dropped in this case would have had 60 seconds to kill dreads (in that 60 seconds there would have been at least 3 dreads down, maybe 4). And if the hostiles could jump to that cyno, then the reinforcements would have arrived even sooner, possibly soon enough to save the titan too (lots carriers came in on that cyno, and while they'd have a 60 targeting timer, popping drones and using drone assist would have meant bad news for attacking dreads and sub-caps).

The only solution would be for the attackers to kill their own cyno. But then not as many could have bridged in on that fight. In that fight, sub-caps bridged in in multiple waves. And keeping players from fun fights strikes me as a sub-optimal strategy for CCP. Come joing Eve Online and you can fight in these epic battles...or not, you can sit and listen to it while stuck on a titan.

I really recommend people who want to change cynos consider actually participating in fleet fights where cynos are used fairly frequently. People suggesting changes with little or no such experience showing on their killboard often goes hand-in-hand with suggesting changes that are questionable...sorry Andy.

Testing would be difficult, since if you changed cloaks and put in hunting modules, only those would be tested. You wouldn't get average joes going about their business, so testing a drastic change like that would be near impossible, and would only test the balance between hunters and cloakers.

The reason we say your change would destroy the game, is that it's fairly obvious that the vast majority of players would suffer as a result, and for no benefit. They would have to work hard to achieve less than they currently do. It would be less fun for less reward. The only people benefiting would be cloakers and people who want to actively hunt cloaks. Regular combat ships would be a considerably weaker choice for solo pvpers, null PVE would be increased drastically in difficulty and holding space would cost more time and isk. It really doesn't take testing to see what the outcome of these changes would be.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

And as for testing, you need to think a bit more outside the box here. How do you think they get people to participate in experimental economics tests?

Exactly where would you lite a cyno then, Andy?

Please explain more than this. This level of a response is not really helpful.



If by broadcasting the cyno as a warp too, this already a feature in the game (any regular cyno in a system shows on the overview--assuming you have your overview set up properly--and any pilot can warp to it at various ranges). I have been in a number of fleet battles where a cyno off grid goes up and the FC tells the support to warp there and kill it in the hopes of scattering the enemy fleet across the entire system.

As for logging off, sorry I forgot to mention that in the specific battle in question the dreads that did not die, warped out to a friendly POS. There you'd wait out your combat timer then log. I've even done this in a sub-cap on occasion.

No disrespect Andy, but your experience with large scale combat seems minimal. Perhaps you should consider what those of us who have such experience are saying a bit more carefully. Again, I'm not slamming you here. Unlike alot of PvP pilots I appreciate the work industrial types do. That group of players are critical to keeping the in game economy functioning. They keep me in ships and modules. I even spent a fair amount of time doing industrial stuff as well to help fatten up the ol' wallet.

Regarding testing:

Since nobody seems to want to even try answering my question....

You have to provide additional incentive. You can provide in-game incentives such as isk, extra SP either as a temporary boost to earning SP or a one time lump sum to be distributed.

And here is an idea:

Andy,

You lost your carrier while testing a fit. Why didn't you test it on the test server? Losses there don't count and just about everything costs next to nothing.

You are missing out on a valuable resource...one I bet PvP pilots are making use off.

Edit:
Oh and let me add, that PvP in most systems is not allowed...well unless you and a buddy are doing some testing...I think. Then it really isn't PvP, IMO.

So you could have tested that carrier even in a null system (yes there are rats) and not risked anything at all.

How exactly would you get thousands of PVE players to essentially play as usual on the test server for an extended period of time. That's what you would need to do to be able to properly test this kind of thing. It would not be possible to perform that level of testing, no matter what incentives you give out.

I feel this is a drastic exaggeration of the facts and a misrepresentation of my posts.

*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.


If you read what I said in the context that I said it then you would see that it meant that assuming your changes went in as you suggested then that would obsolete them. *Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

And covert t3s are very popular, especially for moving around (I'd estimate that over half of all cloaky t3s are also running the interdiction nullifier subsystem) The non cloaky versions outnumber them by virtue of just being better at anything that doesn't involve hiding.

Being able to cloak hurts ships almost as much as it helps them, because while it lets you pick your fights much easier, it also greatly narrows your potential selection of targets compared to a more "conventional" ship.

Under my proposal, the cyno could be lit off-grid, perhaps near a friendly pos, where the fleet re-groups and prepares for 60s to enter the battle at the desired location/range.


You are quite right about warping to a friendly pos in system to wait out the timer, but if you can do that, then the issue of the cyno is rather beside the point.

The whole point about being able to broadcast an enemy cyno was to enable any player to broadcast any cyno in his fleet and to enable any fleet to be able to lock on to any cyno broadcast in fleet. Fleets would then be able to jump (to another system) to an enemy cyno. I thought you had already understood that I was proposing to open up cynos to be lockable by any fleet with a member on grid at the respective cyno. This would also apply to covert cynos being seen in fleet if a member is on grid with it so that any ships able to bridge to covert cynos could lock onto the covert cyno. The ability to warp to cynos in system broadcast in fleet seems like a good idea too, where the primary benefit would apply to covert cynos which do not appear on the system overview.

Irony.Interceptors are better for evasion, and equally as effective at any form of recon that doesn't involve staring at a gate for extended periods of time. And removing cloaked ships from local is not suddenly going to make them able to take down ships they can't take down now. Even PVE ships don't have much to fear from one, staying aligned (which most people would agree is what you should be doing anyway) almost guarantees they won't catch you because you can be gone before their targeting delay is up. (stealth bombers are the only exception and even they would have a hard time catching **** or even kiling it)