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"bubble trouble" please help
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Spetznak Sokarad
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-12-04 23:48:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Spetznak Sokarad
a quick overview of where i am at with my eve character and what im doing with my game time-

i am a low skill point player, and most of my skill points are in exploration (scanning, covert ops, etc). i am not skilled (player or character wise) in combat or pvp.... yet. so when giving any advice, keep in mind that i have no weapons equipped, as it would be pointless to put any on my cheetah.

for now, i have been flying in a covert ops cheetah, and after tooling around for a couple months in high sec, i decided i want to "live on the edge" and decided npc nullsec is where i will reside... and dont regret it one bit. i dont care that i will probably get killed early and often until i "learn the ropes". im still definately green in nullsec (especially bubble) mechanics, but for the most part have been doing well. my wallet went from hovering around a couple hundred million to nearly 2 billion in a matter of a couple weeks. i have been killed a number of times and it has always been the result of being caught in a bubble, decloaked, and well, you know the rest.

luckily, i havent been killed when carrying a load of very valuable loot, and i havent been losing implants, as ive decided against investing in them until i fully understand all of the game mechanics of successfully traveling in nullsec.

i feel like i understand a good portion of the game mechanics of traveling in nullsec as far as avoiding gate camps, using dscan, unaligned safes, gate tacticals, and avoiding bubbles, etc. ... What i dont understand, is how to not die when i get caught in a bubble. i keep messing up when i do get caught in a bubble, and im sure im probably doing everything wrong when it happens.

im just looking for some insight on what i should and shouldnt do when i land in a bubble. im gonna start off with just a few basic questions and explain how i died today... hopefully the thread can evolve from there and i can get some much needed guidance to hopefully avoid getting killed so often.

TODAY - im in route to a system that was roughly 8 jumps away... im moving along nicely, checking each gate and the coast is clear, so i proceed through my 5th jump along the way, and after jumping through the gate...i look at my overview, and "oh crap" ... there is a sabre (i do know that interdictors and heavy interdictors are bad news) sitting there at the gate. at this point, im sitting there wondering what my next move should be. i zoom out, and i see NO bubble to speak of. at this point (which i probably shouldnt have) i decide to "go for it" and right click the next gate, hit jump, and immediately hit my cloak. next thing i know, im sitting in a damn bubble. at this point, i panick and try to get back to the gate, but am dead before i know it and staring at that stupid screen of my dead body flailing away and im back in my medical clone. win some, lose some.

1. can someone explain to me what my course of action should have been? please elaborate on any explanations... how did he decloak me? how did he know right where i was?

2. i do not understand how interdictors work - so if someone could explain to me "what they are trying to do", i might better understand how to avoid getting killed by them. how did his bubble appear exactly when i warped? coincidence that he put his bubble out the same time i hit warp? if he knows i came through the gate, what is his strategy to try to delcloak me?

3. should i have just burned back to the gate? if so, what sequence do i need to hit jump, clock, mwd in?

4. should i NEVER try to advance under any circumstance, or was there a way to get by him that i just dont know of?


I know im probably asking alot, by asking for such "detailed" help and explanations...

thank you to anyone that takes the time to help me understand this part of the game.
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-12-05 00:21:55 UTC
Spetznak Sokarad wrote:
2. i do not understand how interdictors work - so if someone could explain to me "what they are trying to do", i might better understand how to avoid getting killed by them. how did his bubble appear exactly when i warped? coincidence that he put his bubble out the same time i hit warp? if he knows i came through the gate, what is his strategy to try to delcloak me?
He knew that you came through the gate and decided to "play" with you, waiting for you to appear on the overview to drop the bubble. He didn't need to know where you were, as you are always within 12km of the gate and his bubble is bigger than that (15-16km), so he only has to sit directly on the gate to catch you. By not dropping his bubble early, he preserve the option to warp out himself, if he doesn't like his odds of winning - as the bubble also prevents the interdictor himself from flying out.

IMO, your best bet would have been to try and burn back to the gate.
Spetznak Sokarad
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-12-05 00:27:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Spetznak Sokarad
Thomas Builder wrote:
Spetznak Sokarad wrote:
2. i do not understand how interdictors work - so if someone could explain to me "what they are trying to do", i might better understand how to avoid getting killed by them. how did his bubble appear exactly when i warped? coincidence that he put his bubble out the same time i hit warp? if he knows i came through the gate, what is his strategy to try to delcloak me?
He knew that you came through the gate and decided to "play" with you, waiting for you to appear on the overview to drop the bubble. He didn't need to know where you were, as you are always within 12km of the gate and his bubble is bigger than that (15-16km), so he only has to sit directly on the gate to catch you. By not dropping his bubble early, he preserve the option to warp out himself, if he doesn't like his odds of winning - as the bubble also prevents the interdictor himself from flying out.

IMO, your best bet would have been to try and burn back to the gate.


1. i didnt know dictors can drop bubble on an instant like that. so he dropped it the split second that i appeared on overview, correct?

2. after he drops bubble, he knows im in it... is there a way for me to get out of it without being decloaked? or am i simply going to be to slow moving to get away without him decloaking me?
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#4 - 2013-12-05 00:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Warp Disrupt Probes make a bubble with a 20 km radius. The Sabre pilot doesn't need to know where you are. He can launch when he sees a gate flash.

If the probe, or anything else, was within 2 km of you, it will prevent you from cloaking.

If you can't cloak, your best bet is to head for the gate. Remember to overheat your tank and prop modules (or just all mids and lows). If you don't reach the gate (have to travel 9.5 km to be within jump distance) that's just bad luck. They can't follow you if they have a weapons flag.

If you can cloak, overheat, MWD & cloak, then change direction once cloaked. Don't head in an obvious direction to get out of the bubble. Beware of objects left to decloak: drones, wrecks, jetcans, containers, corpses, biomass, etc.

Sending an alt or friend to scout ahead of you is always a good idea when carrying valuables.
Spetznak Sokarad
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-12-05 00:40:28 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Warp Disrupt Probes make a bubble with a 20 km radius. The Sabre pilot doesn't need to know where you are. He can launch when he sees a gate flash.

If the probe, or anything else, was within 2 km of you, it will prevent you from cloaking.

If you can't cloak, your best bet is to head for the gate. Remember to overheat your tank and prop modules (or just all mids and lows). If you don't reach the gate (have to travel 9.5 km to be within jump distance) that's just bad luck. They can't follow you if they have a weapons flag.

If you can cloak, overheat, MWD & cloak, then change direction once cloaked. Don't head in an obvious direction to get out of the bubble.

Sending an alt or friend to scout ahead of you is always a good idea when carrying valuables.


does the probe move? can he fly around in his own bubble trying to get within 2km of me?

should i just slow boat it out of the bubble or will he most likely decloak me before doing so?
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#6 - 2013-12-05 00:45:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Spetznak Sokarad wrote:
does the probe move? can he fly around in his own bubble trying to get within 2km of me?

should i just slow boat it out of the bubble or will he most likely decloak me before doing so?

The probe is stationary. It is deployed about 2k from him when launched. He can move freely like you, but not warp.

You should get one MWD cycle while cloaked (you have to break gate cloak, then overheat and activate MWD and your cloak), then slowboat the rest of the way. He will see you as you transition out of gate cloak, hence change direction once your cloak is activated.

Only try to get out of the bubble while cloaked; head for the gate if it is closer and you are uncloaked. You can outrun a Devoter, but not a Saber.
Octavian Julius
PREY INC.
#7 - 2013-12-05 00:45:56 UTC
he can move the bubble can't but he can drop more. slow boat ideally.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#8 - 2013-12-05 00:50:48 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Warp Disrupt Probes make a bubble with a 20 km radius. The Sabre pilot doesn't need to know where you are. He can launch when he sees a gate flash.

If the probe, or anything else, was within 2 km of you, it will prevent you from cloaking.

If you can't cloak, your best bet is to head for the gate. Remember to overheat your tank and prop modules (or just all mids and lows). If you don't reach the gate (have to travel 9.5 km to be within jump distance) that's just bad luck. They can't follow you if they have a weapons flag.

If you can cloak, overheat, MWD & cloak, then change direction once cloaked. Don't head in an obvious direction to get out of the bubble. Beware of objects left to decloak: drones, wrecks, jetcans, containers, corpses, biomass, etc.

Sending an alt or friend to scout ahead of you is always a good idea when carrying valuables.


This.

Another option is to train into interceptors yourself, and use them to carry compact loot. They are immune to bubbles and damn hard to catch, and you can still use throwaway exploration ships to earn that loot. There's not many ships that can catch an interceptor alone - mostly it's smartbombers and remote sensor booster powered 'instalock' gatecamps.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-12-05 00:56:11 UTC
Spetznak Sokarad wrote:
1. i didnt know dictors can drop bubble on an instant like that. so he dropped it the split second that i appeared on overview, correct?
Correct.

As for how he decloaked you, I can only guess, especially as he seems to have been solo.

The probe doesn't really move - it appears close to his ship and stays there. The Sabre however, can fly around freely.

You might have been unlucky and something was within 2km. Or he might have been very attentive, saw you blink up in space, and burned into your general direction - with an overheated MWD, a Sabre can reach 3.5 km/s (and even more with speed mods/implants), so it wouldn't take him that long to cover the 12km. Five seconds might seem "instantly", especially if you were a bit disoriented by the unexpected bubble.
Spetznak Sokarad
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-12-05 00:59:43 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Warp Disrupt Probes make a bubble with a 20 km radius. The Sabre pilot doesn't need to know where you are. He can launch when he sees a gate flash.

If the probe, or anything else, was within 2 km of you, it will prevent you from cloaking.

If you can't cloak, your best bet is to head for the gate. Remember to overheat your tank and prop modules (or just all mids and lows). If you don't reach the gate (have to travel 9.5 km to be within jump distance) that's just bad luck. They can't follow you if they have a weapons flag.

If you can cloak, overheat, MWD & cloak, then change direction once cloaked. Don't head in an obvious direction to get out of the bubble. Beware of objects left to decloak: drones, wrecks, jetcans, containers, corpses, biomass, etc.

Sending an alt or friend to scout ahead of you is always a good idea when carrying valuables.


This.

Another option is to train into interceptors yourself, and use them to carry compact loot. They are immune to bubbles and damn hard to catch, and you can still use throwaway exploration ships to earn that loot. There's not many ships that can catch an interceptor alone - mostly it's smartbombers and remote sensor booster powered 'instalock' gatecamps.




i plan on eventually getting into a tengu, since i will be mostly solo player hunting other explorers and running null combat sites. the tengu can also be fitted to where bubbles dont affect it, correct?

i dont know anything about interceptors... have never really read up on them. might have to do that.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#11 - 2013-12-05 01:13:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Spetznak Sokarad wrote:
i plan on eventually getting into a tengu, since i will be mostly solo player hunting other explorers and running null combat sites. the tengu can also be fitted to where bubbles dont affect it, correct?

i dont know anything about interceptors... have never really read up on them. might have to do that.

All Strategic Cruisers (T3), like the Tengu, can be fit with an Interdiction Nullifier subsystem, which makes them immune to bubbles. They can also fit a Covert Reconfiguration subsystem that allows them to fit a Covert Cloaking Device; the subsystem radically reduces the DPS of the ship.

Interceptors are also immune to bubbles, but cannot fit a Covert Cloaking Device, and fast enough to get out of point or web range. Plus they get to warp, and move in warp, very quickly. Everything about Interceptors is fast; that's how they survive. Because of their small size, they also take longer to be target-locked, and take less damage than a larger ship like a Strategic Cruiser.

Interceptors cost less than Strategic Cruisers: Crow = ~26m, Tengu = ~600m

A basic Interceptor moves at roughly 4000 m/sec without Snake implants or fleet bonuses, and without overheating.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#12 - 2013-12-05 01:51:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Never warp directly from gate-to-gate in null. They probably, or at least often, have a second bubble on the line between gates. Also, if he has friends on the other gate, he can tell them "1 Buzzard Incoming" and they have several options. Including, jumping through the gate and catching you on the other side. Dropping a bubble, if they haven't already on your vector and dragging you hundreds of k away from the gate. Or they could be sitting there on the vector line in a smart bomb fitted BS or two and catch you as you're coming out of warp.

Always come at the gate obliquely. If you find yourself residing in a specific region of nullsec, then you will also benefit from making tactical bookmarks around gates you frequently pass through. Such as making a warp to 300km below or above the ecliptic. So you can be on-grid and see if anyone is staging a gate camp.

Sometimes i'll be in my prorator and there will be a gate camp, and SEVERAL bubbles all over the place, but I'll have a clear warp line to the gate because they covered all the probable approaches, but not mine.

If you are making a GTFO warp, try warping to a celestial with several icons piled on top of one another. One time, I was in my arbitrator and got separated from my fleet. I went to my tactical bm to inspect the gate, and found 6 taranis waiting for me. Even though I was over 150km away, they were quickly closing and I barely warped out in time. As I was warping away, breathing a sigh or relief, I came out of warp at a moon...and the six taranis were there already waiting for me. Which brings me to another piece of advice, never warp to zero or 100 when fleeing, pick one of the other options. Most people warp to zero, so your pursuers will usually choose warp to zero. This particular time I chose 70, I picked another moon and warped to it at 50.

This time in warp, instead of congratulating myself and patting myself on the back, I was instead trying to figure out how to evade these interceptors that could outrun me in warp and be waiting for me on the other side. So I was looking at the celestial icons while warping trying to figure out which would be the best one to warp to NEXT, and decided that the last two moons chosen were too close, so the asteroid fields were separate enough they could tell I was going specifically to the moon. So, still in warp, I picked another planet far enough away that the asteroid icons were stacked all together, picked one at random. And when I came out of warp, again to six taranis way too close, I warped to this crowded destination, they could not guess which on I went to, and when I found myself in an empty asteroid field, made my way out of system.

Interceptors can usually tell where you are going two ways. First they can do a "look" very fast and see where your ship is pointed then click warp to and meet you there. They can also watch your ship warp off and tell by which icon your ship covers as it leaves the grid.

Of course ,if I had been even smarter, I would have been creating safespot bms while fleeing.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Spetznak Sokarad
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-12-05 01:52:37 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Spetznak Sokarad wrote:
i plan on eventually getting into a tengu, since i will be mostly solo player hunting other explorers and running null combat sites. the tengu can also be fitted to where bubbles dont affect it, correct?

i dont know anything about interceptors... have never really read up on them. might have to do that.

All Strategic Cruisers (T3), like the Tengu, can be fit with an Interdiction Nullifier subsystem, which makes them immune to bubbles. They can also fit a Covert Reconfiguration subsystem that allows them to fit a Covert Cloaking Device; the subsystem radically reduces the DPS of the ship.

Interceptors are also immune to bubbles, but cannot fit a Covert Cloaking Device, and fast enough to get out of point or web range. Plus they get to warp, and move in warp, very quickly. Everything about Interceptors is fast; that's how they survive. Because of their small size, they also take longer to be target-locked, and take less damage than a larger ship like a Strategic Cruiser.

Interceptors cost less than Strategic Cruisers: Crow = ~26m, Tengu = ~600m

A basic Interceptor moves at roughly 4000 m/sec without Snake implants or fleet bonuses, and without overheating.


do interceptors need a particular module equipped to for bubble immunity? or are they just automatically immune...

also, with a cov ops subsystem on a tengu, im assuming it will still do plenty of damage to take out exploration frigates, correct?
Octavian Julius
PREY INC.
#14 - 2013-12-05 02:09:36 UTC
you can take out exploration frig but not quickly, upwards of 200-300 dps with max skills and fit for damage.
Spetznak Sokarad
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-12-05 02:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Spetznak Sokarad
this question is kind of off topic -

as far as fitting for a cheetah thats exploring in null-sec im not sure what to put in my low slots? ... i have a micro aux in one of the lows, but im not sure which is most beneficial for the other 2 slots between nanofibers, inertia stabs or if i should go with warp core stabs?

ive been using nano's, but i dont know if they really help me much at all for anything...
Spetznak Sokarad
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-12-05 03:21:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Spetznak Sokarad
Thomas Builder wrote:
Spetznak Sokarad wrote:
1. i didnt know dictors can drop bubble on an instant like that. so he dropped it the split second that i appeared on overview, correct?
Correct.

As for how he decloaked you, I can only guess, especially as he seems to have been solo.

The probe doesn't really move - it appears close to his ship and stays there. The Sabre however, can fly around freely.

You might have been unlucky and something was within 2km. Or he might have been very attentive, saw you blink up in space, and burned into your general direction - with an overheated MWD, a Sabre can reach 3.5 km/s (and even more with speed mods/implants), so it wouldn't take him that long to cover the 12km. Five seconds might seem "instantly", especially if you were a bit disoriented by the unexpected bubble.


i think some of the problem im having is when i land in a bubble, im disoriented and dont even know what way my ship is pointing since im cloaked and cant actually see my ship, and then i end up flying in a direction that i dont actually want to be going in....

is there any way to combat this ^^^ maybe something im overlooking!?!?
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
#17 - 2013-12-05 04:31:26 UTC
Using your tactical display and zooming out gives you a good idea of your position under cloak.

Also, you can hold down left ctrl ( I think that's default ) and you will see brackets appear around your ship in space if you prefer.

Good luck and welcome to Null!
Amaranthe Emberd
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-12-05 06:00:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Amaranthe Emberd
Something I don't see mentioned that I've heard from interdictor pilots: They wait for you to appear on the overview, because if you hit warp instantly after cloaking and they launch the bubble after you've done it, your ship stops and sits in one place. Many people don't react fast enough to that. This makes you easy to decloak, since the dicotor pilot has seen where you were the instant you appeared in space (he uses the tracking camera option, clicks on you so that his camera will face your location and clicks 2 times in space to start moving towards you). What you want to do to survive is use the align command instead of the warp command. Or just click twice somewhere in space, preferably in a direction perpendicular to the direction from which the interdictor pilot will be approaching you.
Nitrah
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#19 - 2013-12-05 19:44:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Nitrah
Like Amaranthe said, he dropped it as soon as you appeared because if you had hit warp to (something) it would stop your warp and make you sit still unless you doubleclicked again.

Every time I get away, I doubleclick a random direction, hit the MWD, cloak, and then doubleclick a direction perpendicular to the line between the starting points. It's easiest to select the hostile before you move to visualize the line.

He is going to light an MWD and doubleclick toward where he saw you on grid. You want to get more than 2k away from the line between where he started and where you started so he misses you.

I also personally like to change direction and go straight up or down if he misses on the first pass. Human beings tend to think in 2 dimensions, and they will try to sweep you out in the ecliptic plane first, I have found. As soon as you are out of the bubble, warp off.
Mildew Wolf
#20 - 2013-12-05 20:55:00 UTC
what usually happens is something like this

sabre cloaks near the gate with mwd heated
cheetah jumps through the gate
cheetah clicks 'warp to'
sabre quickly decloaks, bubbles, and activates mwd with key commands while mouse spam clicks the cheetah on overview to begin approaching
cheetah cloaks
with key command sabre "set full speed" and prepares scrams webs guns etc ..with mouse prepare to spam click overview when cheetah is decloaked to reapproach and target
cheetah is uncloaked and dies

the best way to avoid this is to align or double click in space and pulse the mwd as you cloak

in something like a cheetah this will usually carry you far enough to avoid decloak...some slower ships may still be caught

most are caught as mentioned above by simply hitting 'warp to'..then they are bubbled and too slow to avoid decloak
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