Player Features and Ideas Discussion

To say he is gaining nothing, by choosing his fit over one more yield oriented, is subjective.

If he encounters an overwhelming force, then yes, he gains nothing, as they would beat any possible fitting.

However, if he should encounter someone who tries to min max their return on ganking, as you do on yield, then they will save the ISK on clone costs by not training skills, and not fit the more expensive DPS boosters or ammunition. They obviously will use the minimum number of pilots to get their goal as well.
Since Teckos is a harder target, going after him at all is a then poor choice, once they understand it will cost them more ISK to succeed. They will look instead for easier kills, with yield intensive fits.

A strategy can approach a problem from a different direction, and still solve it. The extra time he needs to mine ice, in theory, he will have.

Well if you are answering functionally, then you are wrong. Obviously removing cloaking would stop AFK cloaking from being possible. You are stating what you feel is the cause and what you feel is the answer. That's your opinion. I disagree. That's my opinion.
I'm not trying to push you into any corner. I'm simply stating that other opinions than yours are valid and deserve as much consideration.

I was responding to NightmareX who has been extremely nasty in this thread. Constantly distorting what others write, calling them names and so forth. Frankly, ISD should give NightmareX a posting time out, but that is just my opinion.

And you have to keep the context of that comment in mind...it was in reference to semi-AFK mining which is how most high sec miners mine, IMO. And yes, in a way you had a point regarding skills, but probably don't realize it helps MY ARGUMENT against NightmareX:

A newer player just getting into an exhumer might have bad skills and can't (yet) get below the 30 minute criteria for getting an AFK tag and wapred off/logged off. Such an occurrence is a buff to older players and a nerf to newer/less skilled players. I don't see how that is in any way a good thing.

And lastly it isn't a couple of extra K in tank, it is not quite double the tank (and with overheating shield modules more that 2x the tank) of a Mack with a DCU II.

Who care's if your "reason" still exists, it would be impossible to do!
There are still reasons people want to do countless things in eve that no longer exist. But functionally they are not possible. Like sniping people from 500km away on a bugged grid.
From a functional standpoint, removing local is not the ONLY WAY to remove AFK cloaking. You think it's THE way to do it but that is an always will be just your opinion. It's certainly not the only way and honestly the fact that you are claiming it is is utterly ludicrous.

Ahh so you're not interested in fixing the cause, you just want cloaks nerfed. OK I understand now. Thanks.

Ahh so you're not interested in fixing the cause, you just want cloaks nerfed. OK I understand now. Thanks.

1--If the point is resource denial, and people are playing "smart" then why not consider that moving to another system is just as likely of an option and that their mission is NOT accomplished?

2--I think that the stigma of having everyone see what ship you are in may be enough combined with the inability to get easy kills so that people will want to keep their client active. Then you have people actively thinking, How can I gank them without getting ganked myself?

3--Smart PVE guys are not completely loss averse as you put it. When the odds are not overwhelmingly against them with cynos, easy catches, and fast take downs, people are actually quite interested in the fight. If you stack the odds against anyone, you will find an equal interest in running away no matter who you ask. It is no different with the PVE crowd who tend to prefer flying more expensive ships. They will fight with them if the odds are not stacked against them, but their primary goal is simply to acquire ISK with those ships. With these mobile refitting depots, the ability of PVE to switch to PVP on a dime may become a much more viable tactic and PVP in those ships may become more common.

4--What do I dislike about your proposal, Teckos? If it is the one in the links, I certainly dislike all the added complexity for one. It needs to be simple to make me happy. Eve is complicated enough as it is. My local suggestion is relatively simple, but I admit that it is not the simplest and it requires the cyno mechanic adjustments lest the mechanics continue to be completely abused. To be honest, since the cyno is the primary issue in my mind, all else being relatively okay, your proposal does not address the cyno and therefore neglects the primary issue. It deals with an interesting side issue of local but does not have much relevancy toward AFK cloaking, as I see it. I certainly do not support any system that encourages the easy ganking of solo ships caught unaware. I am more for real pvp fights over real infrastructure and things that have real meaning in the Eve Universe. I would not promote any mechanic that encourages endless, mindless orbiting of gates and AFK cloaky camping of systems. I want to see meaningful gameplay, and boring waiting is not meaningful at all to the Eve Universe. Also, I do not prefer tying intel to sov because I do not believe that large alliances need any more advantage in null sec than they currently enjoy. If anything, the supers which sustain the large mega alliance structure need massive nerfs to EHP and to the DD and to the prices

5--Imagine this for an opening line to join Eve Online: Camp a gate mindlessly for hours with no action anywhere or park your ship cloaked in a system for days and ignore it. Who would want to play a game like that? I would be much more inclined to try a game where the opening line was: "Claim ownership of your own space and build a gate defense system. Wrestle control of regions in massive alliance battles or explore unknown space in a small group and find hidden treasures." We are drawn toward games of meaningful action terms, not toward games of inaction and AFK mechanics.

Now instead of retreating from only larger gangs, the cynos forces the PVE pilot to retreat from even a mere stealth bomber (plus cyno). And no, they are NOT usually willing to gamble, hence the repeated frustrations expressed here that PVE always runs away.

Translation, when large groups are so afraid of pvp with regular pvp forces that they are only so risk averse as to choose single PVE targets, hotdropping is the method of choice for surprising and overwhelming a solo PVE ship. Yes, hotdroppers are the risk averse group and the cyno is the method at fault. Something needs to be done to enable cyno use for movement but discourage it for the immediate combat option. If the trouble is finding fights, CCP needs to invent more benefits to sov which can be fought over.

No.

In N3 renter systems.