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Blast mining

Author
Dieterlin
Reckless-Endangerment
Manifesto.
#1 - 2013-11-27 11:06:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dieterlin
In EVE, mining is an activity where active player participation doesn't make much of a difference to how much ore you get. To sit at your keyboard and watch the laser cycle over is a waste of time - nothing you can do as a player (outside the fitting window) will really make a difference to how much ore you find in your hold every few minutes. The risk/reward tradeoff for mining in more dangerous space is just plain bad given how vulnerable mining ships are. These two factors lie at the heart of AFK mining and botting, where the miner avoids the terrible gameplay of mining by not actually playing the game while mining.

I think that such a fundamental part of the EVE economy should have deeper and more engaging gameplay than the current mining system offers, and that there should be a worthwhile risk/reward tradeoff for taking a barge into dangerous space.

My proposal is to add a new kind of mining ("Blast mining") to the game that hopefully avoids the failures of the old system while encouraging miners to take more risks, mine more ore, and create a more engaging experience for everyone involved.

Blast mining pretty much exactly what it sounds like - blowing asteroids to smithereens and scooping up the little bits left over. Instead of using mining lasers to vaporize and retrieve ore, the barge equips a specialized explosive charge launcher and drags around one of the new auto-tractor deployables. When the miner targets an asteroid with this launcher, he gets a zoomed-in view of the asteroid (similar to planet view in PI) with an overlay of surface faults and mineral density. The miner selects between one and three areas on the asteroid (one for each launcher, up to three launchers) to be struck, and the minerals within a fixed radius of those points are lost, and the asteroid takes damage depending on what faults were struck. Once the asteroid has zero HP, it cracks into chunks and the auto-tractor pulls in what's left. Careless charge placement will result in poor yield, perfect placement will give you the whole asteroid's ore. Smaller asteroids might fall entirely within the destruction radius of a charge, and produce no ore at all with blast mining, whereas larger asteroids need more charges to break, but more ore survives.

Tech 1 blast miners are very imprecise, with poor mineral conservation. Tech 2 require an exhumer, but load improved charges with greatly improved precision and damage.

Now, the interesting bit: Blast mining produces a powerful smartbomb-like AOE damage around the asteroid, and if anyone is damaged by the blast, CONCORD consider it aggression and destroy the barge. As such, it is very inadvisable to blast-mine in hisec with non-corpmates nearby, but blast mining in lowsec or nullsec allows for unprecedented yields, averaging more than double or triple the ore/hour achievable with strip miners.

Hopefully, this will encourage low/nullsec industry, with cheap ores available for whatever corp/alliance can keep it's miners alive, and miners might make tempting targets for small gangs to attack and defend. The system will discourage AFK mining, because using more active mining techniques will improve your yield. Botters will either switch over to blast mining, meaning that their bots will be super easy to kill (via CONCORD) or be stuck with laser-mining, which is less efficient.

EDIT:

Just for clarity, this new system doesn't replace strip miners/mining lasers entirely, it is intended to coexist with the current system. When I refer to mining lasers, that includes strip miners.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2 - 2013-11-27 12:20:42 UTC
I do believe I have to give this idea a +1.

This sounds incredibly more interesting than the current method of mining.

It will also lead to a new type of highsec miner ganking that requires absolutely no sec status hit and will result in multi-billions of Concordokkened ISK and sec status penalties. I'm not much of a ganker but even I can see that it will be glorious.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-11-27 12:39:39 UTC
+1 for bots
-1 for active players that enjoy passive mining

Can we keep the tedious minigames out of eve?

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#4 - 2013-11-27 20:40:15 UTC
Perhaps we should consider having both systems: the old one for a more passive, steady, but less profitable style, and this new blast mining you propose for a more active and profitable way of mining. That way we'll all be happy.

I really like your idea!
Gigan Amilupar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-11-27 20:44:38 UTC
Yeah, I agree. Lets keep mining lasers, but make blast mining a more rewarding, more active way to mine.

+1
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#6 - 2013-11-27 20:53:09 UTC
Komodo Askold wrote:
Perhaps we should consider having both systems: the old one for a more passive, steady, but less profitable style, and this new blast mining you propose for a more active and profitable way of mining. That way we'll all be happy.

I really like your idea!

This sounds like a good approach, IMHO

+1
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#7 - 2013-11-27 20:56:54 UTC
Needs more scatter mechanics.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-11-28 00:34:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
While I do appreciarte adding new types of mining to the game I think "blast mining" should never replace what we have. That said as long as they can balance it with the current system I say great. Maybe we could make blast mining specific to a certain types of new ore or make it modify the molecular state of current ore to create new useful alloy.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#9 - 2013-11-28 01:13:30 UTC
Did anyone else see the tech demo of (basically this idea) for EVE? it was a UNITY mockup with an asteroid minigame where you could do AOE attacks and scoop ore, you had to keep an eye on heat buildup in the asteroid etc...

It was similar to this idea, and freaking awesome. But all the great mining ideas seem to be promptly shelved for some reason....

+1 for this as an optional mode just in case

Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#10 - 2013-11-28 01:36:16 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
+1 for bots
-1 for active players that enjoy passive mining

Can we keep the tedious minigames out of eve?


Pray tell how this benefits bots in any way.

For the rest of you:

Did you all miss the part where he says that this new "blast mining" system would co-exist alongside the existing laser mining system? Also, if you read carefully you can tell that OP says "mining lasers" but is referring to strip miners.
Marc McIntyre Crendraven
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#11 - 2013-11-28 01:45:42 UTC
I also like the idea, with some refining it could be a great addition to an otherwise boring profession

Eat Lead!!! Err....Antimatter...whatever!

Dieterlin
Reckless-Endangerment
Manifesto.
#12 - 2013-11-28 02:11:58 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
+1 for bots
-1 for active players that enjoy passive mining

Can we keep the tedious minigames out of eve?


Pray tell how this benefits bots in any way.

For the rest of you:

Did you all miss the part where he says that this new "blast mining" system would co-exist alongside the existing laser mining system? Also, if you read carefully you can tell that OP says "mining lasers" but is referring to strip miners.


Oh yeah, I guess I didn't phrase that bit as well as I could have. OP Edited.
Dieterlin
Reckless-Endangerment
Manifesto.
#13 - 2013-11-28 02:20:01 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Needs more scatter mechanics.


Yeah, I don't actually like the hacking scatter-cans either. That's why I suggested that the exploded asteroid chunks be targeted by the auto-tractor deployable, so that the miner doesn't get RSI from manually clicking ten thousand little moving space-rocks.
Zerlestes
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-11-28 05:20:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Zerlestes
hold the miningames out of eve -1 for miningames

i like the aktuell way of mining and minigames for mining would destroy my pleasure in EvE
and aktive mining is possible with more yield fly a Covetor or Hulk afk mining extreme is only possible
since the Mack and retriever has more cargo
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#15 - 2013-11-28 05:33:54 UTC
maybe look at the gas harvesters and their info and how they used to be used for mineing or what not.. and they could be "reconfigured" to have an area of influance to draw the blasted roid peices toward you.

as for the blast its self.. maybe look at the old "Mines" and think "bomb launchers" too like launching a LIMPET style mine which will attach to a roid if you were aligned correctly and would have an aoe and destroy the roids around the blast of like 5km perhaps?

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

Lion Ahishatsu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-11-28 05:52:51 UTC
if you aint a miner, dont suggest changes to mining, and if you ARE a miner and dont like the mechanics, then maybe you should be trying a different area of EVE rather than telling everyone they are playing WRONG.

mining is ok and dosnt need to be changed the point in mining is that you dont need to pay attention to the game every second

my joy in mining is to get the last % Yield out of my setup and i dosnt mean my ship my fleet i Multibox with 6 accs without extra Software like is boxer and dont ever bother me with bots and bots are so easy to make for mining

Anos and Missions arent that more entertaining if you fly them long enough
Jasmine Assasin
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-11-28 06:23:55 UTC
Lion Ahishatsu wrote:
if you aint a miner, dont suggest changes to mining, and if you ARE a miner and dont like the mechanics, then maybe you should be trying a different area of EVE rather than telling everyone they are playing WRONG.

mining is ok and dosnt need to be changed the point in mining is that you dont need to pay attention to the game every second

my joy in mining is to get the last % Yield out of my setup and i dosnt mean my ship my fleet i Multibox with 6 accs without extra Software like is boxer and dont ever bother me with bots and bots are so easy to make for mining

Anos and Missions arent that more entertaining if you fly them long enough



You can keep mining like you are now.

But people that want more and are willing to put in the effort will be suitably rewarded.

+1
Lion Ahishatsu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-11-28 06:51:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lion Ahishatsu
the whole reward the active players idea need to be balanced it cant be that 1 aktive player makes more than 2 or 3 players using the not so aktive way by the way if you want to mine aktive and more yield use the survey scanner and a hulk or fly more than one ship with 6 accs i have more than enough to do and way more klicks than one or 2 aktiv miners
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#19 - 2013-11-28 09:24:21 UTC
There are wh corps that mine almost exactly as you desire it is just sleepers they 'mine' and not ore.

Leave mining as is no additions no subtractions.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Dieterlin
Reckless-Endangerment
Manifesto.
#20 - 2013-11-28 09:40:41 UTC
Lion Ahishatsu wrote:
if you aint a miner, dont suggest changes to mining, and if you ARE a miner and dont like the mechanics, then maybe you should be trying a different area of EVE rather than telling everyone they are playing WRONG.

mining is ok and dosnt need to be changed the point in mining is that you dont need to pay attention to the game every second

my joy in mining is to get the last % Yield out of my setup and i dosnt mean my ship my fleet i Multibox with 6 accs without extra Software like is boxer and dont ever bother me with bots and bots are so easy to make for mining

Anos and Missions arent that more entertaining if you fly them long enough


I tried mining when I first started EVE in 2009. I was part of an industrial corp, flying my shiny new retriever in Caldari hisec with orca boosts and a dedicated hauler and everything. After a month or two, I got sick of it and moved on to what seemed more interesting at the time.

I think that people who take the risks inherent in flying a slow, defenseless and expensive exhumer outside of hisec ought to have a worthwhile reward for their efforts. Right now, a max-skilled high-yield hulk working with Orca boosts mining Hedbergite in null really doesn't make enough ISK/hr for it to be worthwhile - around 40M /hr, according to EVE Isk Per Hour if he refines with perfect standings in hisec and sells the minerals at Jita.

Given that he's risking a 200M hull that aligns slower than a plated abaddon with no real defenses, this reward seems inadequate. In exchange for being an easy target doing a dull activity, your reward is mediocre isk/hr and loads of skills that don't transfer over to any other part of the game. If you have to pay someone to haul for you or guard you, you earn even less! The current risk/reward for mining is clearly a bad deal for miners. Other professions, such as exploration and combat, offer hugely increased rewards for operating in more dangerous space. I think that miners ought to have a worthwhile risk/reward tradeoff as well.
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