Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Thank you for confirming you simply want to nerf cloaks and not specifically AFK cloaking.

Of course, it would have been simple if you could have been honest from the start.

Oh, and pro-tip, coming back to your computer periodically and "performing an attacking" is not intel gathering.

lmao especially since what you're proposing is way more draconic and impacts every single form of cloaking

Glad we were able to reach a compromise.

< / topic >

Look at the OP, it wont be the end of the topic.

BTW, if you notice...there aren't as many nerf cloak topics when this is on the front page. Hence my responding (and others) to keep it there.

Also, so long as this thread is active, if you request new threads on nerfing cloaks be locked due to duplicate threads, it is more successful.

Much of this discussion is largely blue sky crud since it is unlikely the Devs are going to be rolling out any significant changes to local without both ample warning and significant testing first....as it should be. Changing local would have a huge impact on the game.

Sorry Andy, all I see is "I'm to lazy to change my habits/tactics so I want to change a game mechanic so I don't have to". Look, bottom line is you have 3 main options, 1) you take the risk and continue on with whatever you are doing despite a cloaker afk or not hanging around in the same system, 2) You go elsewhere, and 3) Quit playing the game as it is obvious that you cannot handle the mental stress. While the third option may be a little harsh, some people simply cannot handle being mentally toyed with.

You can have risk without reward just as you can have reward without risk, sometimes you can have your cake and eat it to, and sometimes you can't, the main point here is that nothing is ever guaranteed and EvE mirrors that fairly well for a video game.

Decloaking.....

I must dispute your opinions on this.

For point 1, suggesting these methods exist, relies almost exclusively on the limited vulnerability present when ships travel between systems. That, and of course, the facepalm worthy screw ups that do happen on occasion.
Considering this sufficient exposure to threat on it's own, or as a supplement to large scale SOV warfare, is simply sweeping the issue under the rug.
(AKA: Trying to ignore it)

For point 2, if the economic production won't be shifted by the removal of these tactics, what is the net gain?
I hate to point out the obvious, but mining happens in order to meet a need, not because the graphics from a mining laser are hypnotically beautiful.
The same can be said of ratting, by equivalent, as it is most often done in order to secure ISK for use in other areas.
One of the main arguments I have heard against AFK cloaked ships, is that they are shutting down entire systems by their presence.
Now, you are saying their removal won't make a difference, against the targets which had been shut down.

So, which is it?
Or perhaps you would suggest, instead, that both aspects of point 2 are real facts. That would mean that the players who were shut down contributed so little, that restoring them would have no significant effect.
Either way, you are destroying the whole point of any such change, by removing the value it would bring to the game.

Could you please add https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298532&find=unread ? I would appreciate it.

In brief: Cloaking is not OP, but can be enhanced to add extra challenge and strategy by adding probes to scan down cloaks and counter-measures to help active cloakers keep hidden. This also preserves cloaking 'as is' but simply adds an active and effort-required method to find cloakers, but is not impossible to prevent being found by active and aware cloakers. Cloaking itself should not be nerfed.

Sonar-sub hunting like principle, almost like the scene from Firefly where they deploy the "Cry baby", causing the Alliance cruiser to think it's a passenger carrier in distress and go for that signal instead. For Eve this idea is like hunting submarines, and adds an element of challenge and risk for scanners and cloakers alike without breaking cloaking as a whole.

New specific 1) covert scanning probes and 2) counter-measures. Covert scanning probes used by at least 3 players in a gang to scan down a cloaked ship, locks the scanning players in place so they cant move (until they turn off the scanner- which if they do, stops the scan and resets the results). Cannot be used by a station, POS, or 0 km of a jump gate to prevent abuse. If interrupted -or killed- the scan fails and they have to start over.

Cloak ship must use counter-measure probes to keep hiding, which requires activity to do. If cloak ship attacks one of the scanners this decreases the scanners scan time but doesn't completely reveal the attacking ship (in this case a bomber). Once scanning time is completed successfully, the cloaked ship is 'decloaked' in the system and cannot cloak again for x number of minutes and can be scanned down. Cloaker must then fly around to prevent from being killed, but an additional scan is required to find the ship itself by use of probes already available in the game.

Enhances current cloaking system while preserving the ability to cloak without using a nerfbat. Open to any constructive ideas on how to make it better. Thanks!

You currently don't need to know a have new probes sot know a cloaky is in system. Just use the current probes and local.

What the people who complain about cloaking want is reduced risk. That is why they want to remove AFK cloaking.

It is just that simple. Such a suggestion is also dubious when it comes to game balance since it removes current risk and replaces it with nothing.

I appreciate the desire to keep out the 'nerf x' crowd, or 'make the game easier crowd', there's plenty of that in other games thanks, and unless it's mechanically sound, it would be nice not to have it here please. Mechanical improvements that make the game better -but not strictly 'easier'- are great, just 'dumbing down' the game, is not.

To your post, actually you can see a red or neutral in the system in local, but cannot scan them down. This just addresses the AFK cloaking, without changing cloaking directly. It also adds an new pvp element and risk for those who wish to engage in the scanning or counter scanning. It's also entirely possible that those in the area aren't able to scan down cloakers as they might not have the requisite probes.

Right now cloaking is just a hunter sitting in a booth with a sniper rifle, waiting for a little critter to go by. That's all well and good if you like this sort of 'challenge' level as a 'hunter', and maybe after a while the bunnies catch on, but what if the prey you stalked could also stalk you? What if instead you were hunting a ferocious space alien? It immediately makes the hunter more legit and the risk is higher because hey, it might just shoot its larvae down your throat which then later bursts out your chest. That's a bad hunting trip imho, but you wanted a challenge! But what if you're also a Space Marine and this sh** just got real and that bad*** space alien just fell into YOUR trap? Teach that creature to spray it's acidic blood all over your Marine buddie.

Current probes do NOT let you scan down a cloaked ship if it remains cloaked. Period. This new system would allow for risk to scanners AND to cloakers (scanners need numbers -at least 3-, the right probes, and are stationary targets while scanning, which can be interrupted, there's a lot of risk here. Cloakers need to deploy counter measures and be active to do so or they need to kill one of the scanners to break the chain), it's not heavily one sided in that regard and certainly needs suggestions to tweak it's effectiveness. It's not just a 'I don't want risk button' but rather a 'can the cat catch the mouse or is that mouse really a trap?' which isn't less risk and could in fact be more. It also doesn't nerf or lower the ability of cloaks to be effective, you just have to be smart enough to be a good hunter. That thing called... skill?