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How the (a) Live Event could have been - No rage or tears in here please
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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#21 - 2013-11-17 19:54:24 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Killerjock wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
Ok, I am genuinely curious whether you believe that using CONCORD for protection againt null dwellers when operating in null is something legitiate?


Dunno about epicurus, I'd be definitely against it.
I mean if you're gonna use concord in nullsec, just hold the event in hisec and don't bother - what's the difference anyway?

The point of having an event in null is to let people experience null - so just stage in deep low and let them have at it.


I agree. Unless CCP said "due to technical reasons we can not bypass Doriil. Do not disrupt or there are measures in place to protect free passage". Then they can have something in place. Ideally not concord. That is a hisec operation.

If ccp have not set conditions for the event,then CCP should stay out of it and let the players sort out their own resolution.

CCP did not say this so the Nullsec players simply did what they are extremely good at.

There is a place for rules of engagement, and measures to deal with disruption to an event. Or to enable specific goals.but only If they are clearly specified, and appropriate

If they had had a "surprise overwhelming NPC gatecamp busting force arrive then without prior rules preventing Nullsec's occupation of Doril, that would be wrong for many reasons. Navy forces travelling with the fleet would not have been unexpected however, In fact It was a surprise they were not ,and Null intelligence would have been able to adapt to the conditions.

There were no rules of engagement here, so no blame is attached to the null players.
They despatched the fleet from HS very efficiently. It was well done.

Personally, I believe that the whole exercise was a horrific error on so many levels, and i hope that lessons will be learnt.
Nullsec by it's very nature is an extremely challenging area to hold events other than one where there is primarily "contact" between the parties.

Again I hope the lessons will be learned for the future. As in null primarily the rules of engagement are "cry havoc and set loose the dogs of war"

If other rules of engagement are expected then they should be specified beforehand.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-11-17 20:52:56 UTC
My previous suggestion from a separate thread:

- Smaller better orgsanized events
- Correctly sized events to minimize TiDi
- A mix of events around different areas, not just combat
- events should provide additional lore, introduce new lore, and otherwise be relavent to the EVE backdrop
- but should not be driven purely for lore, there should be some payback for those involved

A good example may be the ghost site trailer they just released (but not necessarily ghost sites for events)

various sites to explore in low-sec or a newly opened wormhole (so not to infringe on someone's hard earned home). Limited number of places, first come first served on a PLEX authorization code found in game from data sites/loot drop/trade

then everyone has a fair chance to go on the missions and fleets will inevitably meet
then they can choose their approach, stealth, evasion, outright fight.

would be a much more rich experience for those involved I think

I'm not about to suggest wrapping hi-sec folks in cotton wool, but if you us to experience Null then we actually have to get there...in the case of the last event surely it isn't inconceivable that the empire fleets wouldn't have inserted deep stealth boats to create cyno-fields (or whatever it is you jump to). These insertion ships would then have jumped around in the target sector(s) bringing fleets in safely to give them a chance to organize and actually present some kind of challenge to the experienced Null-sec folks.

I expected TiDi, I expected relatively quick loss of ship and jump clone, but it would have been nice to have a chance to engage in combat rather than just be insta-scrammed and shot to bits by one of the many gate camp groups. how can I learn about Null-sec and null-sec combat if i don't get chance to engage.

I like challenge, I can't see how there was any challenge in the last event for the null-sec folks which means they were failed almost as much as the hi-sec folks. Future events (which I will still run on) must find a way to bring fleets into combat on a more balanced footing which will give people so much more to enjoy and talk about after the fact for all the *right* reasons.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#23 - 2013-11-18 05:22:37 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Killerjock wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
Ok, I am genuinely curious whether you believe that using CONCORD for protection againt null dwellers when operating in null is something legitiate?


Dunno about epicurus, I'd be definitely against it.
I mean if you're gonna use concord in nullsec, just hold the event in hisec and don't bother - what's the difference anyway?

The point of having an event in null is to let people experience null - so just stage in deep low and let them have at it.


I agree. Unless CCP said "due to technical reasons we can not bypass Doriil. Do not disrupt or there are measures in place to protect free passage". Then they can have something in place. Ideally not concord. That is a hisec operation.

If ccp have not set conditions for the event,then CCP should stay out of it and let the players sort out their own resolution.

CCP did not say this so the Nullsec players simply did what they are extremely good at.

There is a place for rules of engagement, and measures to deal with disruption to an event. Or to enable specific goals.but only If they are clearly specified, and appropriate

If they had had a "surprise overwhelming NPC gatecamp busting force arrive then without prior rules preventing Nullsec's occupation of Doril, that would be wrong for many reasons. Navy forces travelling with the fleet would not have been unexpected however, In fact It was a surprise they were not ,and Null intelligence would have been able to adapt to the conditions.

There were no rules of engagement here, so no blame is attached to the null players.
They despatched the fleet from HS very efficiently. It was well done.

Personally, I believe that the whole exercise was a horrific error on so many levels, and i hope that lessons will be learnt.
Nullsec by it's very nature is an extremely challenging area to hold events other than one where there is primarily "contact" between the parties.

Again I hope the lessons will be learned for the future. As in null primarily the rules of engagement are "cry havoc and set loose the dogs of war"

If other rules of engagement are expected then they should be specified beforehand.


Doesn't that compromise the game? I mean that is basically showing favoritism to one section of the player base. Plus setting rules of engagement is already done via game mechanics. Doing it every event is, again risking favoritism.

**Vherokior **
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-11-18 08:53:14 UTC
As a new player I'm definitely not in favour of being 'protected' by CONCORD on the way through Null. These events do need some mechanism to deliver hi-sec players to a target location though, otherwise they'll never get there. Once on target your on your own though, otherwise what's the point going into Null? If you want CONCORD protection at all times stay in hi-sec.

these events must provide challenge for all involved I feel otherwise they miss the point.
Vanilla Vila
MATAFS
#25 - 2013-11-18 15:54:45 UTC
Voice should be made trough a single audio system, AUdio stream, etc.

Anyone can connect to it with winamp( or other streamer app), the FC as no cross talk.

Also FC shoudl be in a cloaked cov ops (especially in a CCP event), so he doesn't get ejected from the fight 3 mins in and stop calling primary and orders.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-11-18 16:18:36 UTC
Again a simple idea that 1) is sensible in combat terms for fleet actions by yourself let alone in a mass action 2) could easily be set up in advance with the cov-ops ship inserted and waiting in-situ (as you would expect on a 'real' operation)

Would be nice if agents 'acquired' a list of empire commanders who were posted to the border patrols for incompetence :D I would imagine that the agents wouldn't take kindly to the capsuleers they have spent a long time building a relationship with being thrown to the wolves.

That would make sense in lore terms too, agents beginning to feel more affinity to the capsuleers...
Killerjock
Von Neumann Industries
#27 - 2013-11-18 16:20:30 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
Doesn't that compromise the game? I mean that is basically showing favoritism to one section of the player base. Plus setting rules of engagement is already done via game mechanics. Doing it every event is, again risking favoritism.


Not sure if you're serious or just provocative, but I'll bite.
Favouritism is not only treating the equal as they were different, but also treating diffferent people as they were the same.

So if I'm treating hisec individuals like they were part of a big nullsec alliance, I'm being unfair: hiseccers have their own playground where concord helps them and they can engage in their enterprises with a reasonably low risk; it is known that a space with enforced rules helps the economy. To treat them like they were losec cowboys or nullsec imperialists would make no sense.
On the other hand, pretending that nullseccers are like hiseccers and forcing them to adapt to unorganized pugs or blobs without organization, or forcing them to give up their sov for "event reasons" would be equally unfair.

But to ask the hiseccers to give up some of their safety, and nullseccers to go lengths they wouldn't normally go, if you don't go overboard in either direction, is not unfair nor favouritism.

Besides, sometimes you have to push one dish of the balance to reach equilibrium - and fun for everyone is more important than the everyday sandbox workings, during an event. As long as it doesn't have long-standing perceivable consequences (like, nullseccers lose a cap fleet, or sov, or whatever).
Chinwe Rhei
Syn Interstellar
#28 - 2013-11-19 10:59:39 UTC
The event was sabotaged by CCP giving in to demands that they make their events more accessible to people who don't usually get involved, or follow the story, etc... too much advance notice on social media and in Eve news - Tidi all the way, plus plenty of notice for people who want to screw others over (it's not bad to interfere with the event per se, but that should happen spontaniously and not because you read about it three hours ago on twitter).

They should keep doing events but they should just do them by surprise around expansion launch or when they want to do a story twist. 200 people happy about something cool suddenly happening in their region is way better than 2000 angry people.

Also as long as no big valuables are given (no unique ships or modules and the like) it's fine to "show favoritism" concerning live events to people involved in EvE fiction or EvE RP, etc... not everyone consumes all content in EvE and not everyone will do story content either or care why the President of the Federtaion does this or that, that's fine.
Vanilla Vila
MATAFS
#29 - 2013-11-19 15:29:18 UTC
Chinwe Rhei wrote:
The event was sabotaged by CCP giving in to demands that they make their events more accessible to people who don't usually get involved, or follow the story, etc... too much advance notice on social media and in Eve news - Tidi all the way, plus plenty of notice for people who want to screw others over (it's not bad to interfere with the event per se, but that should happen spontaniously and not because you read about it three hours ago on twitter).

They should keep doing events but they should just do them by surprise around expansion launch or when they want to do a story twist. 200 people happy about something cool suddenly happening in their region is way better than 2000 angry people.

Also as long as no big valuables are given (no unique ships or modules and the like) it's fine to "show favoritism" concerning live events to people involved in EvE fiction or EvE RP, etc... not everyone consumes all content in EvE and not everyone will do story content either or care why the President of the Federtaion does this or that, that's fine.



Na, the event alto a SNAFU was a content generator. Having a selected VIP or using a precise time zone and never advertising is bad and pretty much point less to the other 35k subscriber and the game is already aimed at rewarding the hardcore no lifer Low/null sec gamers.

This creates a place for people with life to join the bigger scale, for more casual players to join and enjoy.
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