Live Events Discussion

Lol The image.. i need to burn my brain

Doggy part aside, and I do love that.

I totally agree that we now need to help them wherever we can so that WE can have fun and hopefully they can have fun preparing them and running them with us.

That was my intention in my comment :) I skipped the first 60-odd pages of the forum for that reason...don't put CCP off but give constructive ideas on events.

I'm pretty sure that if many smaller events are run regularly it will lead to more experienced events staff *and* more experienced fleets who will join...this in itself will inevitably lead to more and larger conflicts. Slowly maybe, but the more organized the newer players become the more likely they will want (and be able to) challenge the larger stronger corps.

You will find that EVE's pvp is probably unlike anything else you've experience in a game.

What I am trying to figure is, where did they get these that big deal blockbuster live events would work in such manner that they were implemented. That is, did they know live events were popular and try to bank on them harder or was this something they came to with big ideas THEN failed to check on notes from past experiences?


What I hope they learn from this is that if CCP wants some kind of earth-shaking event, they need only push the players in that direction and there are enough LE junkies and RPers to deliver. Luminaire and Spectre were events that apparently attempted "bigness" from a top down centrally planned viewpoint did not work out so well. I won't say that a live event from that direction is certain to fail, but that they are going in the direction of bigger events while using as few resources as the older events - even less in Spectre.

If CCP wants to make George Lucas raise an eyebrow, they are going to need to put way more resources and planning into it. But if they want more successful live events, just stick with the way it was done in 2010-2011. The players will deliver (especially if you did it during prime time, even unannounced).

this is what concerns me... their dev blog has confirmed only what i already knew to have happened, it didn't answer to the reason and has done nothing to settle any concerns that i have regarding the situation the team is in.

their reason logic and resulting action suggest a lack of information, an absence of understanding and foresight, and implies a failure in their business process(es)/structure that invited this outcome to occur.

Having done what i have, seen what i have, I have information regarding those past experiences that ccp should have been learning from, it's not as good as what their former team has/had but it's all i can provide, thus if they were lacking information regarding the circumstances they were facing and what they should have looked for and prioritized they have slightly less of a deficiency now because of what I have tried to provide them.

and if it helps them to achieve the standards of competency that we are expecting of them then all the better.

my greatest fear is that they will continue to fall behind the closed door of the internet, that they'll allow these warnings to go unchecked and unsolved because they do not understand the weight of their meaning, or worse simply don't want to face the experience of dealing with angry people on the internet. (who does?)

more than anything else I want to help but if i do not do this right - if i don't get the message across well enough it'll become less likely to resolve itself, if that means i have to 'rub their noses in their own poo' in order to reinforce the meaning and the importance of its implications then that is what i will gladly do (within reason). it would not be the first time I've chosen to become an enemy to save a friend, and i doubt it will be the last.

As one of the hi-sec folks I *would* have been happy to engage in large fleet combat. I firmly believe that such events can't be created as such but must occur naturally, The best way to ensure this is to nurture players who don't often PvP so that they understand the different combat environment and learn to love it :D

My feeling is that CCP should concentrate on smaller lore driven events to move the story along, and then as people learn more about fleet combat bigger battles will occur naturally. Throwing a largely untrained and unprepared gathering of lower skilled hi-sec folks into low-sec could never really work as sheer numbers don't actually mean that much when the are dribble fed to a target area.

The worst thing that could come out if the last event is if it puts a large swathe of hi-sec folks off PvP even more..

I also think that there needs to be different kinds of events too, something to rewards other styles of play. I know many think hi-sec is pointless but I disagree. There are many play styles within EVE, with combat being one facet. Hi-sec is a necessity to allow the industrial/.trader/builder type players to function. Without this depth EVE will become just another MMO. One giant constant battle which would ultimately become dull.

They already have the small missions to perform research, mine minerals, etc etc...why not some story arcs around industry instead? Something that gets players to co-operate in an entirely different arena. How quickly could hi-sec build a titan for an incursion into low-sec if they pulled together I wonder?

high-end combat in EVE is a niche that it takes time (in skill terms) and practice. This won't happen buy throwing people en-masse into low-sec and is a small area of EVE for me. I would like to develop in that area, but not at the exclusive expense of other areas of EVE.

My main objection is that call to empire/hisec was misleading. It looked like PvE thing and even Sansha were mentioned.

On the other side call to pirates was spot on - come and fight empire.

This caused a great confusion - CCP had to be more clear and in event invite state clearly - you will go to low/null, pvp will happen, use clean/pvp clones and equip properly.

Confusing invite to hisec caused low preparation for what was about to happend.

I thinkg most of the people that participated does not object the fact that they got killed but the fact that they fell mislead and fooled.

Write better event invites.

A nicer set-up could have been to start with industrial events to gather up/research/build the components for a bunch of titans with which the capsuleers can help as they can more rapidly acquire the necessary goods.

From this those who perform best would be invited on the empire incursion into null, with spare places being open to whoever declares loyalty for at least a month.

The titans would be used to bridge into the target sector and station fleets to hold the gates, with CCP commanded fleets and capsuleer fleets performing the holding duties, whilst others go and try to take the objective.

once the empire fleets were in place the pirates would *then* place the call out to null-sec folks for assistance with the warning that the gates are camped.

the null-secs could then choose to support, but to do so would have to access the system. I think this would have led to a much more balanced combat, and since the null secs could have declared to assist the empire (just because they are in null doesn't mean they wouldn't help against a common enemy) they could also take part on either side.

this could have given a much more imersive flow of events with a large final event.

Or, maybe, just maybe, people should stop expecting to be told "you are venturing into the danger zone, wear your hard hat" and start thinking for themselves. We actually didn't expect empire people to be rerouted our way - thinking CCP organized a full-fledged safe rat turkey shoot for carebears.

Heh, go figure - people get welped into the wall and instead of thinking what they could do to avoid in the future they demand others to do something instead.

Yet again I find you sitting on both sides of the fence from one post to the other, one thread to the other. Perhaps your reading comprehension skills can't keep up with how quickly you change your opinion but to repost for you (and has been posted about 5 times in different threads now) and for the others that follow:

IG issues\complaints\concerns:

CCP knew full well that TiDi would be in effect for those travelling to the waypoints and that they would have 23 jumps to go through and that the Null Blocs would either Titan Bridge in forces or that they were already in-situ.
CCP either by ignorance or incompetence took or tried to take 2-3000 paying customers into a massive staging area of Null Block
CCP then declared the event over after an hour knowing full well that participants were still in TiDi and travelling or getting torn apart by the Null Bloc.
CCP employees in the role of FC\Actor\Guide wilfully commanded scores of players to jump into Null.
CCP employees in the role of FC\Actor\Guide either jumped ahead of the fleet using devhacks or dropped fleet leaving the participants in disarray (This requires verification but I have heard it from several sources)

IRL issues\complaints\concerns:

CCP did not deliver on what was advertised to a large audience.
CCP did not estimate the numbers of attendees correctly. This was probable due to the headlines of "Unique" and "never to be repeated"
CCP did not organise any sort of reliable communications or clearly communicate to the participants where, when, how they should be.
CCP wilfully withheld key information that would've enabled participants to make other ways to get to the rendezvous points as we know that players are resourceful. It wasn't hard for Null Blocs to organise as they had 50mins notice. Withholding this information just served to add confusion to the unaware participants not yet exposed to fleets etc
CCP used Twitter to communicate of staging system change.
CCP has refused to acknowledge bar one comment from CCP Goliath that this thread exists
CCP has refused to update it's customer of what is occurring or if this is being discussed or analysed
CCP has refused to indicate if any update will be forthcoming
CCP has allowed this to get to the point where people are unsubscribing\not renewing\cancelling from the game due to the perceived level of incompetence, collusion with Null Sec Cartels, contempt that CCP hold towards the Hi-Sec player and the tinfoil hattery that even I am starting to wonder "well what if".
CCP are supposed to be a trusted entity in EVE Online. If you cannot trust those that develop the game and run it who can you trust.
CCP are supposed to be an impartial and independent body removed from the universe of New Eden and so removed from a conflict of interest.

CCP were not expected to:

Hand hold the participants
Ensure participants were in suitable ships
Ensure participants had blank clones
Ensure participants had an up-to-date clone
Tell people how to operate in a fleet

I hope that you'll find that I (and I feel a lot of people) had these same expectations due to the nature of the advertising for this event.