These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Player Owned Customs offices in Hi-Sec

First post First post
Author
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#541 - 2013-11-10 16:26:29 UTC
I agree that if these changes kill at least one aspect of industry in the game then they are bad changes, EVE is multi-faceted which is why it is such a good game. destroying those facets in favour of combat will ultimately kill the game

If they want to change an element they must balance it with a counter change. If CCP think its too easy to make money with industry (which I don't) then they should make changes that mean you need better/more skills and understanding of industry in game. These changes carry a strong risk of killing PI for anyone but the biggest corps in my mind which is also unrealistic in business terms. If small industry characters cannot get a foothold then how can they ever develop into bigger industry characters?

This game isn't purely about PvP, and if it is driven that way it'll become dull.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#542 - 2013-11-15 00:03:44 UTC
Considering how many losec custom houses are still interbus I cannot see this making a huge difference anywhere except for a few industrial planets near hubs. Barren and temperate planets near Jita may be become quite a point of contention.

QUESTION: Will this new skill reduce the tax on my losec planets as well ?


Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#543 - 2013-11-15 17:56:43 UTC
Its on the NPC portion of tax so will help anywhere. I'm still hoping they'll introduce a smuggling dropship deployable to evade customs offices...then the owner has to patrol to enforce tax :)
DeAira
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#544 - 2013-11-16 22:48:18 UTC
From the patch notes:
"All Concord operated Customs Offices in Hi-Sec are now controlled by InterBus. Interbus stations have a tax rate of 17%."

Are you ******* kidding me?

#justice4VileRat

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#545 - 2013-11-17 01:05:59 UTC
Seems like a provocation to blow them up :D extra 7% tax...of course all of this does mean that market forces come into play...the PI manufacturers will now have the power to make trade deals to reduce tax at player owned CO's...less tax or no imports/exports...
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
#546 - 2013-11-17 02:58:59 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
I love how many times people are repeating "but this forces hiseccers to interact!" as if it wasn't the entire point in the first place.



You do? How cute.

Anyway, my guess is that since it can be assumed that most people are not prepared to pay money to be pushed around and forced into playing the game in a certain way, the player base will shrink accordingly. Or rather, what will probably happen is a shift in demographics: Those who have been playing EVE for it's open ended complexity and - until fairly recently - true sandbox nature, will leave and be replaced by a - possibly younger - segment attracted to a hyper aggressive arcade style game that EVE is evolving into.

My prediction is that CCP's drive to (aquire and retain subscribers) maximize evenue by

1) dumbing down (no cliché, is it?) game mechanics and ironing out (flat-lining) the learning curve to offer instant frictionless gratification

2) imposing cooporative playstyle in order to establish social tie-in, i.e. you can not succeed unless you socialise and once you do, you can not leave, because you will be letting your mates down that can then not succeed (very crafty)

...will end up killing the product.

The game is steadily losing some of the unique - and vital - qualities that has led it to be one of only a very small number of MMORPGs (the only one, even?) with long term commercial and overall creative success. The ongoing changes to hyperbole aggression and herd people into still fewer and larger organisations will effectively take the RP out of MMORPG. EVE will be left with MMOG... G for grinding... and die. Shinier than ever.

EVE is dying. I called it. Maybe it is alright.


Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#547 - 2013-11-17 03:17:02 UTC
well...if they give players the option to smuggle goods past the POCO's then they still support the individual players, those who maybe play casually but still pay subscriptions? If not then I think the push is towards bigger corps (intentionally or not) as it will be the only way to operate.

If that happens though where does the new player start and learn the game? Removing complexity would remove the very thing that makes this game unique I think
Daddywarcrimes1
MONOLITH HEAVY INDUSTRY
#548 - 2013-11-20 01:42:00 UTC
ok player owned high sec POCO'S.

I haven't logged on since the release but I am excited. it will be interesting to see how this players out.

I've rad that many players are worried about null sec alliances muscling their way into high sec and messing with their finely crafted isk making machines. Well It happens anyways! deal with it!

one way I was thinking that ccp could use to mitigate the damage that these large alliances will inflict on high sec through POCO ownership would be to make the system work similar to current high sec POS anchoring. I.E. require fuel in the form of star base charters and/or the corp must have an appropriate standing with the systems' ruling faction!

Also if you can trade POCO's make the same restrictions apply to the trading receiver, IE they must have the correct faction standing etc.

This will still mean some systems 0.8 sec and higher will be devoid of "outside influence" and provide a modicum of protection against the older and more established player entities.

of course they will also be very expensive to operate 17% tax but then again you pay for protection.

That is all.
Colman Dietmar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#549 - 2013-11-20 03:56:20 UTC
I understand the CCP vision now. They want to replace NPC empires with player empires. Or perhaps just one empire, stretching across the whole universe.

At least we still have w-space.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#550 - 2013-11-20 06:40:42 UTC
once someone gets the Customs Code Expertise skill to 5 then they will get 8.5% tax on an interbus co so unless the poco's are charging no more than 3.4% then they aren't worth moving to (don't forget the 5% npc tax with lv 5 cce).
Ama Zing
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#551 - 2013-11-20 11:20:22 UTC
I just checked the maths on PI with a POCO that I used. It's even not worth it anymore to do PI.

And I guess there are a lot of players stopping HiSec PI, like I do. Paying like 14,000,000 for an export that brings back like 25,000,000 is pure waste of time. Once it was a valueable income - now it's politics. The prices for planetary materials will explode and the only ones profiting are the powerblocks.

There are a lot of BPOs with planetary mats needed. Those productions are raising to hell as well. I guess it's time to switch to another playing style.

Looking forward what the future will bring ....
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#552 - 2013-11-20 21:33:55 UTC
Ama Zing wrote:
I just checked the maths on PI with a POCO that I used. It's even not worth it anymore to do PI.

And I guess there are a lot of players stopping HiSec PI, like I do. Paying like 14,000,000 for an export that brings back like 25,000,000 is pure waste of time. Once it was a valueable income - now it's politics. The prices for planetary materials will explode and the only ones profiting are the powerblocks.

There are a lot of BPOs with planetary mats needed. Those productions are raising to hell as well. I guess it's time to switch to another playing style.

Looking forward what the future will bring ....

im assuming by poco you meant interbus co (poco is player owned custom office not the npc owned ones...alot of people say poco when they mean interbus co) and if you dont train the skill that reduces npc tax then yes there are only a handful of PI chains worth bothering with on an interbus co.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#553 - 2013-11-20 22:09:54 UTC
all of this wailing is making me think we should really be jacking up the taxes on our pocos if a measly 5% tax is producing this level of shreaking and rending of garments

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#554 - 2013-11-20 22:10:43 UTC
(tell) me about your favorite place to do PI

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#555 - 2013-11-20 22:44:00 UTC
Is it possible to get spectator's tickets to the next shareholder meeting of Interbus?
This might be fun. Big smile
Fitz Muller
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#556 - 2013-11-21 00:48:04 UTC
"The NPC tax will continue for hi sec POCOs (as we want low sec POCOs to still be competitive). The tax rate stays the same, at 10% for export and 5% for import. This is then in addition to whatever tax the player owner sets."

Why is there a 10% NPC tax now on POCO's in wormholes?
Bex Beere
Brewery Research Ltd
#557 - 2013-11-21 11:43:02 UTC
Omega Flames wrote:
once someone gets the Customs Code Expertise skill to 5 then they will get 8.5% tax on an interbus co so unless the poco's are charging no more than 3.4% then they aren't worth moving to (don't forget the 5% npc tax with lv 5 cce).


Customs Code Expertise skill seems to have no effect at all on Interbus tax, trained to level 3 so far and still get 17% tax rate but POCO taxes have dropped 1% per skill level so it is working there.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#558 - 2013-11-21 13:25:14 UTC
that's a bug then i think as it's supposed to be on the NPC portion of tax

maybe report it as such?
Bemil
Wing Born Echos
#559 - 2013-11-23 13:40:41 UTC
I just looked at some of my planets. The tax rates were certainly higher, although i can't tell if that was because of the skill bug or not. If they stay up that high, i will have to leave the game. I can't use industry to plex under that tax load. But my bigger worry is the effect on pos fuel..... I'm just going to let my subscription run out and i'll see what happens after the first. Hopefully, i'll have some funds from the holidays to restart the accounts.

Also, having just 1 way per a planet to get stuff down is asking for it. and only having a poor way to launch stuff back up. Unless we get another way to manage out pi, the taxes will continue to climb until no one other than the owners can do pi. This is called a monopoly and they generally are very bad as they eventually lead to protectionist type price and extreme prices for products.....

I still think that if CCP doesn't do something about this, the game will be deader in about 6 months.
Sera Breedmaster
Universal Might
#560 - 2013-11-23 14:05:34 UTC
Well PI is certainly in doubt for me. I have extensive PI operations which I needed to buy new ships for my corporation, explore etc.
Some group has set up all the POCOs in my area and set the tax rate to equal to the direct launch method.

Obviously:
1. Launch pads are now largely irrelevant as there is no cost savings and general storage will provide me with greater storage and much lower CPU load.
2. Funding some other person is just a method of scooping a huge amount of cash from small players to big corporations. Guess what: big corporations need a steady influx of small players (as does EVE in general) and this will only create a drag on overall Eve population recruitment.

On point 2, I would guess that the number of players joining eve and leaving eve is roughly equal... or it was... The effect of this is, of course, moderated by the fact that PI is not all that common among new players.

Overall I would classify this as a poorly thought out dumb move. I would suggest balancing it somehow.

P