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Probably the WORST event I've wasted my time on in my 10 years of EVE ...

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Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#1221 - 2013-11-14 16:24:33 UTC
The best apologies are the ones in which the individual not only admits their faults, but also shows their thought processes and what they've learned. CCP has done both of these things. They screwed up in choosing Doril - they admit that, and will get better. They screwed up in not correcting for tidi - they admit that, and will get better. Fleet was a mess and presentation was poor - they admit that, and will get better.

http://memegenerator.net/instance/35800888

I don't, and won't, expect them to come begging for forgiveness. They spun things in a positive light where possible, which is to be expected and is a sane thing to do. They've seen the mistakes - yes, including the mistake of getting the fleet strung out and preventing a number of people from attending the event proper.

In the end you can take from this what you will. If you want to use this as an excuse for unsubbing, and have had the wind taken out of your sails, no amount of arguing will change that. If you're bolstered by the reply and are once again looking forward to the next one, no arguing will change *that*, either.

Thanks, Events Team! Let's do the titan bridging thing next time. That sounds cool.
Rekkr Nordgard
Steelforge Heavy Industries
#1222 - 2013-11-14 16:33:39 UTC
We already know exactly what happened during the live event. When we asked for a dev blog discussing it, we didn't mean we just wanted a recap of what we already knew. We wanted an apology, CCP to acknowledge what went wrong, and explain how things should have been done differently to avoid this mess. I saw nothing in that dev blog to make me believe that CCP has any idea why players are mad about the live event. So nice cover-your-ass, kick-the-can-down-the-road post, but I don't think that your lackluster response is going to help anything or convince people to show up at the next live event because there's no reason to believe that CCP has learned anything from this.

Dev Blog wrote:
We did not thoroughly research each system on the route, so we were unaware that Doril was a staging system until it was past the point of being able to do anything about it.


Wow.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#1223 - 2013-11-14 16:42:51 UTC
Quote:

Q. High player interest is great, but causes Time Dilation bottlenecks. Can you foresee a way to deliver a more optimal live event experience?

A. We always strive to engage people and the participation figures at our larger events show that they aren’t just a niche experience. Balancing this with ensuring adequate server performance is tricky. We can control the size of events by controlling the information flow, but that creates the problem of having to be constantly up to date with what is happening where. For the larger events we use more large scale advertising, and this obviously pays off as we can see from the participation in this event and the Caldari Prime event, but this doesn’t always pair up well with ensuring a consistent experience for everyone and while there is an ongoing internal effort to improve cluster performance, it also forces us to be a little creative in our staging of events. We don’t have the magic recipe yet, but we’re getting better at engaging more people and we learn lessons on how to optimize the experience with every event. Different types of events can also be used to engage many people without causing undue load, for instance the Sanctuary Image Contest that we ran earlier this year, though these come with their own costs too.




This should fit well into letting players run the fleets on their own. FCs who know the ropes and the regions (FCORD does roams in Black Rise almost monthly for example) will choose their own routes per the needs of the situation, using scouts, intel, the usual tools.


Quote:
Q. Are concerns about favoritism a barrier to running smaller, more specific events?

A. Favoritism is something we are extremely conscious of in the events team. We both seek to provide interactive content shaped by the players to add flavor to the EVE Universe, and to get involved where we can to enrich player created content. Obviously we can’t be at every event we are requested to be, so guidelines and rules have to exist to ensure we aren’t giving certain groups more attention than others. It is important for us to remember that the squeaky wheel shouldn’t always get the grease – just because there are particularly active or interested parties doesn’t mean they inherently deserve more of our time and attention than parties that are quieter but just as interested, or curious but not the type to ask for our help/time/participation. It’s also important to make sure we don’t show up where we aren’t wanted, hence our reluctance to run events in player owned null sec space, or wormholes (though there are plenty of logistical reasons in there too).



If they really want to avoid the hornets nest on this one, all they need not do is "feed" one player to another. Don't go feeding live event participants to nullsec bubble blob camps so they can gleefully shoot fish in a barrel. But I would also advise against setting up SOV holders or lowsec organizations to be disadvantaged (screwed over is a better term) by changes in mechanics or NPC/CCP actions around the live event.


Quote:
Q. Are there plans to host live events for those who enjoy different playstyles?

A. Experimenting with new things is definitely something that we are very interested in as a group. As outlined above, this event ticked a few boxes for us, but there are many more left un-ticked! We have an idea for an arc that has resource gathering mechanics in it to put our more industrial inclined players to the test, but we don’t have a timeframe for running it so I won’t go into more details at this time.



OK here's some vet stuff. Remember the original Sansha incursions? (before Incursions as game content) They had something for everybody: explorers running scanning ships, role players, and occasionally PVPers (for the ones that led from highsec to lowsec) and it was a break from PVE grinding that changed the game for a lot of people. We do not need a "PVP live event", or a "Hauling Live event", nor a "PVE Live Event" or a "Exploration Live Event". Just throw these elements together, one big "mess" - don't worry there will be enough players with specialized skills (division of labor) who can handle it. Imagine a live event where you have to find the bad guys (scanning), got suspect flagged for engaging (PVP), had to run loot to given collection points for some reason (quarantine, etc - hauling), and had many injected NPC fleets to deal with in the process (PVE). Throw in some dramatic subterfuge too. A good time will be had by all.

Quote:
While the development priorities of the EVE project have not resulted in development of tools to improve the facilitation of live events at this time, the team has come up with some ideas to mitigate some of the limitations that the client and environment lend to the running of events. For instance, actor-driven storyline exposition may be contained to moderated chat channels in future so that players can follow the thread of the event without confusion developing through local chat. Ultimately, the old adage “a bad workman blames his tools” rings true once again, and working with the tools we do have to be as varied and flexible as possible in our events is the primary focus of the team. We learn more each time!



Pro tip: there are people who were not baby-sat properly - or too much - whose whole game is to disrupt live events by spamming the channels with garbage. A "actors only intel channel" for event information injects that can only be watched by players would be perfect and simple as a final word.

(Of course the actors should not be too trustworthy you never know what spies the pirates put into Empire to seed disinfo or what someone does when Sansha nanites invade their brain).

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#1224 - 2013-11-14 16:50:02 UTC
From this thread Dev Blog: Operation Spectre - Event Breakdown and FAQ

Phoenix Jones wrote:
- Stream the event LIVE from CCP Headquarters -


Excellent idea that I quite like but can you imagine if "Operation Spectacle" had been streamed how bad it might have affected CCP? They need to really dig down deep and sort these events out before this happens.

On an improvement front and to combat the Null Bloc a little cos, well if they want a fight lets give them one hellava fight, you could declare that you are Titan Bridging into EVF-456 and the Titan Bridge opens, Fleet jumps, and "Whoooaaaa" along with this:

"This is the FC, due to the secrecy required for this mission we had to sow disinformation and you were not bridged to where we told you we would be going. Pilots...PREPARE TO DEFEND YOURSELVES!"

Now the spies in the Fleet will be squawking on comms back to the Null Bloc FC's, Null Bloc will be TB'ing back to where ever the hell we've landed and we'll be all "Come at me bro!" and probably all die in a big ball of flame with a smile while taking the pod goo express to a clone in a Hi-Sec Station shouting on comms "What a ride, what a ride!"

Now that's how you get around spies and that would be an awesome fight I would gladly bring a decent fit to!

EDIT:

If it is part of the game to spy and try to disrupt then surely it would be reasonable that you can put out disinformation on the objectives etc. This maintains the secrecy in both the "Chronicle" and the lore along with the "excitement of the unknown" for the participants while ensuring that those not accustomed to Fleet Warfare get some time in fleet to do something i.e. "PREPARE TO DEFEND YOURSELVES!" and the Null Blocs logistics get tested along with them being a little on the back foot and not sitting at a gate waiting for the barrel to be delivered full of the juicy fish. Cool

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Detritus Newton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1225 - 2013-11-14 16:52:31 UTC
I've restarted a post several times here, the problem is that the more I read the Devblog the worse it sounds.

On the was the event incompetence or intention? The blog is firmly on the incompetence theory.

Have they seriously admitted that they don't understand their own product?

Did they seriously explain away the laughable communications due to it being a covert op? Really covert? The publicly advertised call for all pilots into massive fleets was a covert op?

Did they admit that they don't know any of the major dynamics going on with the game?

Honestly I think its time to draw a line under all this. It was a half arsed attempt at something which the nullsec people took full advantage of quite rightly.

The only way we will know if they have understood how pissed off so many people is if and when they stage another comparable event.

If they had said they wanted to recreate the Battle of the Somme or Gallipoli intentionally I might have understood.

"Lions led by donkeys" - not a dig at the FC's.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#1226 - 2013-11-14 17:02:30 UTC
When I read the dev-blog, all I can think is "yep, it was a gank. A poorly executed one, but still a gank"

The way the blog recounts what happens is written almost as if with glee at the results.

The reason it took them a week to post it was they probably couldn't get a decent one put together that wasn't a wall of text just gloating over their success.

I noticed specifically there was very little said regarding how their FC's acted during the event, and so on. Likely due to the FC's doing exactly what they were told to do.

The dev-blog certainly hasn't changed my opinion at all, but I wasn't exactly expecting it to. CCP is very happy with what happened.

Profit favors the prepared
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#1227 - 2013-11-14 17:20:51 UTC
One improvement I can see already is the lack of pre-scripted outcome. It's good! It's not Caldari Prime where the Leviathan would go down regardless of what happened.

Step by step CCP will likely improve things, let's remember Rome wasn't exactly built overnight. Those events are designed by employees of a company and it's the second one since they made a return. Imagine if CCP set goals high on this event: scanning, pveing, pvping, hauling, all that good stuff and then things went wrong.

So, they made this one simple: "go to target. shoot bads." and things, understandably, went wrong like last time. Last time it was worse, this time better but still with hiccups. Next time they may nail the formula even better and start varying things up. Maybe they should broaden it from several hours long to a day or two to include all timezones?

Also, I love how Star Citizen the game-that-does-not-even-yet-exist made it into this thread. Let's give it a warm welcome while it's still among us and hasn't crashed into the sea of disappointment.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Optimus Junkis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1228 - 2013-11-14 18:47:04 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
One improvement I can see already is the lack of pre-scripted outcome. It's good! It's not Caldari Prime where the Leviathan would go down regardless of what happened.

Step by step CCP will likely improve things, let's remember Rome wasn't exactly built overnight. Those events are designed by employees of a company and it's the second one since they made a return. Imagine if CCP set goals high on this event: scanning, pveing, pvping, hauling, all that good stuff and then things went wrong.

So, they made this one simple: "go to target. shoot bads." and things, understandably, went wrong like last time. Last time it was worse, this time better but still with hiccups. Next time they may nail the formula even better and start varying things up. Maybe they should broaden it from several hours long to a day or two to include all timezones?

Also, I love how Star Citizen the game-that-does-not-even-yet-exist made it into this thread. Let's give it a warm welcome while it's still among us and hasn't crashed into the sea of disappointment.


I could be mistaken, but i believe i'm the only one that mentioned Star Citizen and that was in the context of space games coming out in the future. I don't believe i ever said it was out as you were implying. But yeah it could completely fail and even be the largest gaming scam thus far. since people have been foolish enough to actually 'donate' money to the project.

But the point i was trying to make is that there are many other games out there currently in development or in rebirths condition launching vary soon that gives a lot of the things carebears or high seccers (whatever you want to call them) want in a game.

But lets not start this conversation or they'll use that as an excuse to close the thread.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1229 - 2013-11-14 18:51:41 UTC
Killerjock wrote:
Epicurus, I think you're deluded.

Quote:
I think they have earned the chance to have our support whilst they show us with their actions that they mean it.


For a company that systematically fails to deal with each and every crisis they face, they surely ask a lot of their customers.
So, we've got the lottery scandal, jita burning, somer blink, the TOS changes, and this, just off the top of my mind. Yet you say they've earned our support.

Nope, sorry. If I am to believe the dev blog, they're too incompetent to *play* this game, much less direct it.

Rest has already been said.


Killerjock, I am saying that this merely buys them the time to prove by their actions they mean it.

I am clearly reading more into this message than you.

You may well however be the one who is right.

I do hope not, because if you are it is all over.

I think after this, we may see a change of .....emphasis.
And those who held certain views ... May be a little less in control.

We will see.
And we should all watch very very closely to ensure that the values hold.

But we do need to give them the chance to put things right,

And hopefully they will.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1230 - 2013-11-14 20:20:17 UTC
I have to say having been on the receiving end of the gate camp insta-death was disheartening but not unexpected, hence flying a cheap frigate on a cheap empty jump clone.

My main problem is in the planning of the event, but I like the idea and would rather be constructive than slag off CCP for this hash up. Primarily an organized event should push the back story of EVE forward in some way, otherwise why would it be widely broadcast by the empires.

Secondly either limit the size of the combatant fleets somehow (like wormhole mass limit) or spread the combat across multiple targets, maybe leading to a final target for the survivors/surviving defenders. Preferably the defending fleets should have to make their way to the final target too to stop another gate camp pirate heaven. There is no point to these events if they do not require some kind of tactical skill to have a good outcome.

I agree with the post about the null-sec folks being hunted by bigger null-sec folks, but in truth that was the only true threat to their fleets, the empire forces were practically cannon fodder in this case.

In game lore terms, all Empire forces would have access to tech to allow fleet insertion through covert or brute force means. Even if the gates were taken and held by empire forces to give a beachhead for incoming capsuleer fleets it would have helped to spread the combat and deliver real combat. It makes no sense that the navy forces of the empire would think it a good idea to channel their fleets into a killing field.

CCP need to learn from this and deliver other events but maybe multiple on a smaller scale at first, then build these together into bigger events

I still look forward to the next event in the hope it will be delivered more consistently. This should be a place for suggestions for improvement now I think as its clear most think it didn't work well.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#1231 - 2013-11-14 20:31:05 UTC
So I just read the dev blog about the live event and busted out laughing at this question that CCP seemingly asked themselves:

Q. Movement and fleet coordination quickly became a problem. What would you do in future to mitigate these issues?

I can imagine someone who actually FC's in this game and is decent at it screwing up as bad as you guys did... I don't think this is the question that would be raised.

Not today spaghetti.
MadMcMax Ornulf
Extraction Point
#1232 - 2013-11-14 20:39:51 UTC
For those familiar with the term 'Spin Doctor' you can see the Dev Blog reply for
what it really is. It would appear that CCP has absolved themselves of any blame
and responsibility for the event they might have had.

As for the suggestions they made in light of this fracas, if they do not know how to
run an event after 10 YEARS of experience with this game, the future of live events
does not bode well.

It seems very few of the legitimate concerns this thread has raised have been
addressed let alone dealt with.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1233 - 2013-11-14 20:50:47 UTC
MadMcMax Ornulf wrote:
It seems very few of the legitimate concerns this thread has raised have been
addressed let alone dealt with.



Which are those, exactly?

Because this thread is about 99% tantruming over spilled milk, by volume.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Tyler Nietzsche
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1234 - 2013-11-14 20:52:03 UTC
MadMcMax Ornulf wrote:

It seems very few of the legitimate concerns this thread has raised have been
addressed let alone dealt with.


A response that goes through 5+ days of (internal) review should be devoid of any deeper meaning.
Tyler Nietzsche
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1235 - 2013-11-14 21:00:16 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:

Which are those, exactly?

Because this thread is about 99% tantruming over spilled milk, by volume.


As I see it, 90% of the volume of comments is about getting the last word in or winning by number of comments. Now I'm doing it. And I have been a bit on the guilty side before. Damn.
Killerjock
Von Neumann Industries
#1236 - 2013-11-14 21:04:38 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
I am clearly reading more into this message than you.
I think after this, we may see a change of .....emphasis.
And those who held certain views ... May be a little less in control.


You certainly are reading a lot in it; but you are wrong on two accounts.

One, we don't HAVE to do anything - it's our money and our time.

Second, there's nothing to put right here. They screwed up big time and nothing in this world will cancel that.
What they COULD have done is acknowledge the crisis - which they did not; answer to it in a timely manner - which they did not; avoid taking sides, which they did not.

You seem to think they answered the underlying question of "where is eve going" - but they did not. They did say that future events will be catered to everyone, and that everyone will be treated fairly in them. Which is very unlikely even if everything's perfect; and nothing is perfect in EVE (except my medium blaster skills).
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1237 - 2013-11-14 21:47:42 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Killerjock wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
I am clearly reading more into this message than you.
I think after this, we may see a change of .....emphasis.
And those who held certain views ... May be a little less in control.


You certainly are reading a lot in it; but you are wrong on two accounts.

One, we don't HAVE to do anything - it's our money and our time.

Second, there's nothing to put right here. They screwed up big time and nothing in this world will cancel that.
What they COULD have done is acknowledge the crisis - which they did not; answer to it in a timely manner - which they did not; avoid taking sides, which they did not.

You seem to think they answered the underlying question of "where is eve going" - but they did not. They did say that future events will be catered to everyone, and that everyone will be treated fairly in them. Which is very unlikely even if everything's perfect; and nothing is perfect in EVE (except my medium blaster skills).


Quite right, only you can make the decision of how you wish to proceed. Hopefully you will continue to enjoy the game you clearly care about.
Second I agree with you 100% although they now admit to serious mistakes, the initial reaction (lack of) threw petrol and explosives on the fire.
I believe you said you are a process manager? I am sure you are aware of how effective crisis managers could have handled this so that this would have been less ?. I can't think of the right word here but they really need to consider how they handle things like this in future so people know they are being listened to.

As to whether they meant eve is for everyone and rules in place to (now?) prevent favouritism.
I hope so otherwise would they mention them in a document that had such scrutiny?

I respect your opinion, and I am not by any means giving anyone a clean slate, but what else can they do other than try to do better much much better now?

I do hope they do. I encourage them to. I do have some hope after today.
But I will naturally be cautious. And blind trust is not about to happen.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Nico Sertan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1238 - 2013-11-14 23:26:58 UTC
You have to wake up from that dream that you actualy can have an impatc in EVE or on Devs ..
CSM is a joke, just like any voting in any country is.

CCP will NEVER acknowledge their fault, just like in Real Life any politic or company will never do.
Proove it in court they all say /i didnt ment CCP here/... And its a cowards way.

They have to do nothing, cause you rage and thats it, but you still play this "sandbox", and every time you rage, or post your opinions to other sites, not only to forums, they will get even more credit and e-Fame, so more people will know about EVE and maybe they join to play. So they still think its a good thing to screw up!

You see, the problem here is, that its a company.
They have abandoned their "gamers life" a long time ago, cause now they need profit to make or they can shut it down.

EVE online gets more and more to that point where you will pay your monthly fee and your PLEX so you can have isk for pvp, cause with all those changes now, all i see is that farming isk is geting harder and harder.

I DONT WANNA FEEL LIKE I HAVE A SECOND F*******G JOB!
I wanna have fun and play a game i liked! But that time has passed for me.

So sad it sounds, i think CCP is preparing to sell EVE Online to EA.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#1239 - 2013-11-14 23:46:23 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
From this thread Dev Blog: Operation Spectre - Event Breakdown and FAQ

Phoenix Jones wrote:
- Stream the event LIVE from CCP Headquarters -


Excellent idea that I quite like but can you imagine if "Operation Spectacle" had been streamed how bad it might have affected CCP? They need to really dig down deep and sort these events out before this happens.

On an improvement front and to combat the Null Bloc a little cos, well if they want a fight lets give them one hellava fight, you could declare that you are Titan Bridging into EVF-456 and the Titan Bridge opens, Fleet jumps, and "Whoooaaaa" along with this:

"This is the FC, due to the secrecy required for this mission we had to sow disinformation and you were not bridged to where we told you we would be going. Pilots...PREPARE TO DEFEND YOURSELVES!"

Now the spies in the Fleet will be squawking on comms back to the Null Bloc FC's, Null Bloc will be TB'ing back to where ever the hell we've landed and we'll be all "Come at me bro!" and probably all die in a big ball of flame with a smile while taking the pod goo express to a clone in a Hi-Sec Station shouting on comms "What a ride, what a ride!"

Now that's how you get around spies and that would be an awesome fight I would gladly bring a decent fit to!

EDIT:

If it is part of the game to spy and try to disrupt then surely it would be reasonable that you can put out disinformation on the objectives etc. This maintains the secrecy in both the "Chronicle" and the lore along with the "excitement of the unknown" for the participants while ensuring that those not accustomed to Fleet Warfare get some time in fleet to do something i.e. "PREPARE TO DEFEND YOURSELVES!" and the Null Blocs logistics get tested along with them being a little on the back foot and not sitting at a gate waiting for the barrel to be delivered full of the juicy fish. Cool


That wouldn't really cause our FCs to scramble and try to reach the target. It'd be more like "Welp, seems like we got shafted by CCP gentlemen." with the decisions that followed mostly guided by how far off target are we. Shooting people is fun, but if things end before we can arrive we'll just go home and treat it as yet another case of 'blueballs'. Disappointing but it happens. It's not an R64 or a CSAA to rush to defend it at all costs - while the operation "let's punch CONCORD in their spacehorse" had people attend it, it wasn't strategic.

Titans cost ISK and risk to run, they have limited bridge range, require a fleet being in system so a mis-bridge would cost us fuel, time to return and reposition or time to burn. Does this sound like :effort:? It kind of is :effort:, unless people want to have fun at all cost the fleet will likely burn home.

Why burn home? Because the only really mobile bridging ship is a Black Ops. With short-lasting nearly undetectable cynos (can still get probed down) and costing only around a billion (or less if it's a basic pig fit) it can be dropped about to move a sneaky squad. A Titan costs... last killboard numbers put it at eighty times that + fittings, though I heard they went down a tad since then. To bridge a fleet back you'd need to deploy a safe tower, jump in a titan (without the fleet knowing - there may be real spies about), bridge the fleet back, jump back the titan. It costs fuel, stront, and is too damn risky.

People should, instead of relying on CCP to give them an easy taxi (yes, I get it, riding a Titan bridge rocks. They should let people experience it, the first time you do it it's awesome. They should also have a CCP Dev commit the most common Titan Pilot mistake. The wrong button, please do press it.) and weaken the defenders for them - start organizing themselves.

No titan? Get into a corporation that owns a Titan. CCP provides a Titan bridge? Good - get into a squad of your own folk, set up a doctrine, get some logis, maybe a booster. Get at least someone who knows his spaceships to call primaries, organize and move together. Learn. Don't ask to be spoonfed fun, go punch a bear and rip the fun out of his bloodied guts.

As full of chestbeating, dickwaving and overall "Hooga booga, we best, we best!" we are, getting an alliance fleet up and running and reliably using it to smack someone about isn't as easy as it sounds. Each thing that benefits the fleet and increases its chances of success is an investment - Titans and appropriate pilots for them need to be purchased/built. Everyone can FC in theory but in practice fleet FCs - especially good fleet FCs - are valuable assets.

Asking CCP to punish people who exert control over certain space because of their experience and gathered assets in this situation is an idea so bad it folds in on itself, becomes good and then plunges again to bad. It breaks the sandbox to create a themepark: "are you tall enough to ride THE TITAN?!".

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Luca Lure
Obertura
#1240 - 2013-11-14 23:52:09 UTC
I do understand why it took 5 days for this devpost. They had to read about 2500 replies from angry people with good arguements and come with a text that makes it look like they made some minor mistakes. I have to give it to CCP, they really are good at sweettalking the mess they created here.

――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――

The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.