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CSM meets CCP Senior Producer Zulu about your concerns

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Khira Kitamatsu
#101 - 2011-09-09 21:22:10 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Sister Bliss wrote:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Guys, there is nothing any of us can say at this point more than what we've said.

But know that we are working hard on your behalf to get CCP to address your concerns regarding FiS.


Lobbying for CCP to focus on FIS is virtually too late. The pertinent time was last July when CCP announced their plans for 2011 which (disgracefully) had nothing to do with FIS at all.

It's disappointing to see it has taken over a year for everyone (and the CSM) to understand the gravest concerns have nothing to do with Barbie or NeX. The issue is and always has been broken core gameplay of the FIS variety. Fussing with emergency summits to tackle reaction to NeX garbage is like rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.


I made myself pretty clear on my stance on things in my blog a couple days ago. This meeting was something of a surprise and the content of it was enough to convince me that CCP is taking the concerns of the CSM and the players very seriously. Beyond that I cannot say more.

I know it's hard for people to accept but we are pushing very hard for complete and solid information to be passed along to the players as quickly as possible. We are scheduled to have another meeting soon and the CSM will continue to push for MORE NULL-SEC and WORMHOLE changes and less Incarna Catwalks. Cool


Fixed it for you.

Ponies!  We need more ponies!
Helena Russell Makanen
DRRUSSEL
#102 - 2011-09-09 21:28:20 UTC
The Mittani wrote:

If things are implemented as planned at the moment, by the CSM7 election no one sensible will doubt the power or scope of the CSM.


I am sorry but that statement made me literally laugh out loud. So if anything in the upcoming expansion is 'good' it is due to the 'power' of the CSM? Roll I am sure the developers and idea-men at CCP thank God the CSM exists lol.

"If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."  -  James 315 - aka - the miner bumper

RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#103 - 2011-09-09 21:36:41 UTC
I find that fact the minutes were put out and most people still don't know about them is just more of CCPs now famously bad communication skills.

I mean come on guys get it together. Your a world wide company. Try to act like it. Stop making the CSM do your work and take the brunt of your mistakes. I have my issues with the CSM and how it works and how people get elected. But im more sickened by they fact CCP is clearly putting them out in front of the mob so unfairly on so many issues.

Though i can say some CSM members are just tossing gas on the fire half the time.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#104 - 2011-09-09 21:46:12 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Richard Hammond II wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
we'll be relaxing the media pressure for now. Take that for what you will.


Why do I have the possible feeling legal measures and/or bannings were threatened lol



From the available evidence, because you're not too bright and twist everything to fit your pre-conceived worldview?


lol yeah.. Mittens is all gun ho "letsd get the media in on this" then a few days later slams on the breaks cause CCP agreed to a meeting


thats takes a lotta twisting to see what happened there

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#105 - 2011-09-09 21:50:23 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Guys, there is nothing any of us can say at this point more than what we've said.

But know that we are working hard on your behalf to get CCP to address your concerns regarding FiS.


More like on behalf of the people that play in null-sec.


If you've been playing the game at all you'd realize what happens in nullsec affects empire, and vice versa. This game has many similarities to a functioning ecology - remove one species or poison one habitat and the whole chain is disrupted. I simply dont buy that you can fight for change in one area of eve and not have repercussions elsewhere. It is NO coincidence that amidst all the hubbub about nullsec stagnation, we are seeing a spike in lowsec of displaced and bored alliances going on the roam and searching inward for fights, isk, and lulz.

This is why contrary to public outrage, I don't see Dust 514 as a giant "distraction" from Eve Online in the slightest. When Dust 514 is deployed, it will change the game for everyone in a way that no other recent expansion has impacted the space ship world. Be patient people, and you'll see that Dust is a "FiS" expansion as much as it is "just another console shooter".

Implementing planetary fighting and directly tying it to system sovereignty will change the way alliances fight wars, add new strategic depth, force increased cooperation and social networking, and give ships like Dreadnoughts a new purpose, and draw space ship battles to new locations (response fleets to planetary bombardment come to mind).

I get irritated when people talk about Dust like its somehow a detriment to Eve Online - its like they have no idea what CCP is trying to do here and don't have an ounce of creative thinking in them to see where this could take us all. All they see is "OMGIDONTWANNABUYAPS3GIMMEMAWRSHIPS"


CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Olleybear
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#106 - 2011-09-09 21:59:52 UTC
Dah Lek wrote:
This isn't mine, but it does a great job of describing how folks feel:

Rage!

Sing, Godess, the rage of Gianturco's son Mittani; who brought forth a sea of discontent to break against the rocky shoals of Reykjavik, and stirred the hearts of capsuleers to rebellion against the fair-haired masters of New Eden.

From: http://fiddlersedge.blogspot.com/2011/09/fever-dream.html


Just had to say I loved reading that post. Thanks for posting it here and thanks to the original author for writing it.

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#107 - 2011-09-09 22:01:04 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
I find that fact the minutes were put out and most people still don't know about them is just more of CCPs now famously bad communication skills.

I mean come on guys get it together. Your a world wide company. Try to act like it. Stop making the CSM do your work and take the brunt of your mistakes. I have my issues with the CSM and how it works and how people get elected. But im more sickened by they fact CCP is clearly putting them out in front of the mob so unfairly on so many issues.

Though i can say some CSM members are just tossing gas on the fire half the time.



How did they fail in communicating this? It is at the top of the Dev Blog list, (the same one where you would go on the eve website where they always are). They prominently posted about it on their wall on facebook. CCP staff tweeted its arrival. CSM tweeted its arrival. I'm sure the next time they send out a newsletter, it will be mentioned there too. People are simply being ******** and raging about things without checking their facts first.

Rouge, stop hanging around all this depressing forum chatter and come fly with your corpmates again, we've missed you! I thought you had unsubbed and MIA until I saw your posting. If you have an account active (i'm assuming you do since you're posting), come fly with us :-) We're having just as much fun as we always have had....whether CCP or CSM has anything to say about it one way or another.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#108 - 2011-09-09 22:04:13 UTC
Richard Hammond II wrote:
Two step wrote:
We all wish we could say more, but the rules are the rules.


the same argument used in the other thread. Out of curiosity, your NDA doesnt have a clause noting you arent allowed to refer to the NDA in the manner you all have been? I know the one for SWTOR does

an just so you know, what this truly says is "Im glad we have a NDA so we can point to it and shrug mysteriously"


I have had the pleasure to ask them things in the past, but never got a reply. Then I started getting snide towards people who couldn't really centralize their anger. Then when I started to get thousands of views, I got called a troll, and now even the CSM say so.

Yet it always seems to come down to no real content in the rebuttal. Like I said, if you cant refute what the "trolls" say, but take the time to call them out, you might as well but your fingers in your ear and go LALALALALALALALALALALALA all the way home.

I never even got the NDA excuse till today.

The bottom line is this;

Nothing has changed since Incarna except bug fixes, and the PCU. Weather or not an NDA has something to do with it at this point, no one really cares. Promising to communicate better and then not delivering is just that (@CCP not CSM).

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2011-09-09 22:15:35 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
Vicar2008 wrote:
No offense I like where this is going, but its just another bone being thrown to us without actually anything concrete being said. Check out the last Dev blogs, plenty of words, no real Comming up content with changes/number crunching etc.


It's not a bone being thrown. Meetings like this one, when they reach their conclusion, take the form of a devblog and CSM posts. I believed it important for you to know that discussion is underway to address the problems, even if I can't disclose in what way yet.
Just stop right now.

Dev blogs that may or may not produce results and which are filled with half-promises that are twisted later on to suit CCP's 100% non-customer focused agenda? CSM posts that blow more smoke up CCP's a.s.s than an Icelandic volcanic erruption?

CCP's and the CSM's words hold as much credibility as the 2008-era Icelandic economic and banking systems.

The ONLY proof is delivered, bug-free and playable content. After all, I am not paying my subscription fees to be told that there are nifty things in the pipeline. I am paying for great fun with mates via the service provided when I log in each day.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2011-09-09 22:19:37 UTC
to be honest, and replying in a manner that doesn't insult anyone (yes I know, this is the internets, you can insult people here simply by posting an image of a cat and a dog hugging each other): I'm more interested in the :action: and not in the :words:, so until **** happens, I'll be watching.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#111 - 2011-09-09 22:29:13 UTC
I don't think the CSM is suggesting that we should ever back away from "actions, not words". Meissa was simply informing the players, as best he can through the NDA, what has taken place - an act of information, not persuasion.

"a thing happened" is not the same as "EVERYTHING IS PEACHY LOVE THE CSM LOVE CCP."

~hi~
AnzacPaul
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#112 - 2011-09-09 22:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: AnzacPaul
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:


It's not a bone being thrown. Meetings like this one, when they reach their conclusion, take the form of a devblog and CSM posts. I believed it important for you to know that discussion is underway to address the problems, even if I can't disclose in what way yet.


What in 6 months?



How bout starting with the minutes of the last meeting before you start on a new one?
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2011-09-09 22:33:52 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
I don't think the CSM is suggesting that we should ever back away from "actions, not words". Meissa was simply informing the players, as best he can through the NDA, what has taken place - an act of information, not persuasion.

"a thing happened" is not the same as "EVERYTHING IS PEACHY LOVE THE CSM LOVE CCP."




oh I'm not saying otherwise. it's good to keep us informed.

but I prefer to wait for :action: before I start throwing a party.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2011-09-09 22:34:18 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
But know that we are working hard on your behalf to get CCP to address your concerns regarding FiS.

More like on behalf of the people that play in null-sec.

While I've spent a lot of time in nullsec, I've never been a sov-warfare guy, and most of my activities these days are in hisec and wormhole space. There are similarly several CSM members who are very active and very non-nullsec.

Right now the fight is to try and get CCP to devote more resources to EVE, and in that fight I am 100% behind Mittens and the rest of the CSM.

And then, if we do get some more resources, being behind Mittens, I'll be perfectly placed to stab him in the back if need be to get those resources allocated to things I think are important -- like Dead Horse, Industry, UI to name a few.

Annoying, however, everyone on the CSM pretty much agrees these are top priorities, so I probably won't have the pleasure of sticking a spork in Mittens and twisting it. The sacrifices I make for you people...

Twisted

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#115 - 2011-09-09 22:36:31 UTC
Dead Horse is one of those proposals that cuts across every corner of EVE, because everyone who has ever had to deal with one knows that POSes are utterly miserable.

~hi~
AnzacPaul
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#116 - 2011-09-09 22:40:26 UTC  |  Edited by: AnzacPaul
The Mittani wrote:

Trebor Daehdoow wrote:






Did you manage to discuss where the EMERGENCY CSM MINUTES were?


EDIT: APPARENTLY RELEASED, LET ME GO READ
Helena Russell Makanen
DRRUSSEL
#117 - 2011-09-09 22:42:48 UTC
AnzacPaul wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:


It's not a bone being thrown. Meetings like this one, when they reach their conclusion, take the form of a devblog and CSM posts. I believed it important for you to know that discussion is underway to address the problems, even if I can't disclose in what way yet.


What in 6 months?



How bout starting with the minutes of the last meeting before you start on a new one?


They were finally released earlier today. Over two months wait and nothing in it really.

"If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."  -  James 315 - aka - the miner bumper

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#118 - 2011-09-09 22:48:40 UTC
Two step wrote:
..... I still favor the same stuff I favored when I ran for CSM, you can see details on that in my blog (linked in my signature). In general, the CSM is all in agreement that the *critical* issue right now is balance (especially supercaps, but including all ships), and we would like to see that fixed ASAP.



I agree with everything you said except this part. CCP already said they will nerf supercaps. I don't see ship balance as anything close to critical anymore. Tweaking ship stats is hardly important to me.

For me in low sec and FW are much more important. For the players as a whole there are too many things to mention that need work. So make sure you stay focused on getting more devs assigned to real eve and not side tracked to particular issues.

For example I saw they were going to try to get a mechanic in null sec where people can fly smaller ships. Well they already have that mechanic in eve, but it remains broken and abandonned. Faction War plexxing is a mechanic that if it was fixed correctly would allow players to fly all sorts of small ships in very small groups and be effective for a larger end. Its all set and ready to go it just needs some fixing. This would be much more important to me than tweaking ship stats.


I don't want this to turn into what particular issue should be taken up first or what is more important. The important thing is to focus on getting more devs working on real eve so *everyone* can look forward to fixes that are long overdue.

I'm sure you guys on csm agree. I just wanted to post to make sure you guys keep focused. Good work so far, and good luck at your meeting.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Kno Bodeesbitch
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2011-09-09 22:54:05 UTC
The Mittani wrote:

Trebor Daehdoow wrote:




And all of the rest of the CSM who have been posting today. Thanks for taking it to them and good luck in your endeavors..I wont be one of the guys who trolls you for making a good faith effort to bring the issues to CCP's door.

Speaking of door....nah you know already Cool
Dex Ironmind
#120 - 2011-09-09 22:56:24 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Dead Horse is one of those proposals that cuts across every corner of EVE, because everyone who has ever had to deal with one knows that POSes are utterly miserable.


That is the stuff I would like to see the CSM push for in EXPANSIONS - stuff "that cuts across every corner of EVE."

The rebalancing/nerfing/patching/fixing issues need to be reserved for in-between expansion actions.

I would really like to see the CSM press for some immediate patching/balancing implementations, freeing up the winter expansion for something that benefits all of EVE and does not mainly focus on NULL. Frankly, all of the sandbox is hungry for new toys to play with in the sandbox!!! Don't let the winter expansion be just you about the NULL boys and girls.

If null requires an entire expansion, as does low, let it come later. This next expansion needs to be a broad reaching expansion to score some points with their entire player base.

Dex was here. Cool