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Dev Blog: No Honor Among Thieves - Siphon Units in Rubicon

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Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1481 - 2013-11-10 00:22:15 UTC
Verdis deMosays wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:
Verdis deMosays wrote:
As a member of a small null alliance I love these changes. The siphons are an interesting idea and will be something I deploy on a regular basis with my Prowler. I think this will make for a lot more productive time gate camping too, since cloaky haulers will be in and out of null on a more regular basis to check on their little autonomous thieves.

Also the Goon response has been priceless. Here's my reaction to it.
http://www.ghostofthefuture.com/images/Ani2/UnfathomableSadness.gif


Seeing as goons message has consistently been "this is OP we will abuse it till it is nerfed and it will be the little guys that get screwed" I think you will find that goons = Cartman in that image.


Assuming you trust the opinion of the goonswarm, who have consistently shown themselves as an exploitive economic coalition. Honestly, if they are raising hell about how OP and unfair this is its a good sign to me that the existence of this item really worries them. The 74 pages of goon tears are pretty much proof of that. Assuming that CCP doesn't cave to the cries of the goons who control the majority of the moons worth anything I think the siphon will be a nice piratical way to break their hold on the T2 market. And before any goons or alts thereof start debating me on that, I'll just remind people of Hulkageddon and that time of GoonFun.


You seem to fail at reading and comorehending things. Failen Whalen above me has spelled it out for you, try reading his comment and comprehending it.

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1482 - 2013-11-10 08:44:58 UTC
Verdis deMosays wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:
Verdis deMosays wrote:
As a member of a small null alliance I love these changes. The siphons are an interesting idea and will be something I deploy on a regular basis with my Prowler. I think this will make for a lot more productive time gate camping too, since cloaky haulers will be in and out of null on a more regular basis to check on their little autonomous thieves.

Also the Goon response has been priceless. Here's my reaction to it.
http://www.ghostofthefuture.com/images/Ani2/UnfathomableSadness.gif


Seeing as goons message has consistently been "this is OP we will abuse it till it is nerfed and it will be the little guys that get screwed" I think you will find that goons = Cartman in that image.


Assuming you trust the opinion of the goonswarm, who have consistently shown themselves as an exploitive economic coalition. Honestly, if they are raising hell about how OP and unfair this is its a good sign to me that the existence of this item really worries them. The 74 pages of goon tears are pretty much proof of that. Assuming that CCP doesn't cave to the cries of the goons who control the majority of the moons worth anything I think the siphon will be a nice piratical way to break their hold on the T2 market. And before any goons or alts thereof start debating me on that, I'll just remind people of Hulkageddon and that time of GoonFun.

who needs to trust goons? I don't trust them farther than i can throw an elephant, but I do trust the brain God gave me (since I actually use it unlike most of humanity) and the almost 2 decades of studying human behavior and almost as long studying economics. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how difficult the logistics of attacking any of the large well defended null sec alliance's pos with these siphons is vs attacking any of the small not nearly as well defended low sec entities with them.

Also by mentioning the hulkageddon you are literally making their point for them because the permageddon was the final catalyst to making ccp actually rebalance the exhumers so they were worth using again due to how easy they were to kill by suicide gankers. I'll give you 1 guess which side the goons were on during the permageddon.
Anailee
Perkone
Caldari State
#1483 - 2013-11-11 11:17:09 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Good afternoon capsuleers!

CCP SoniClover is here with a new Dev Blog, to shed some light on the POS siphoning units that will be coming with EVE Online: Rubicon on November 19th.

While the statistics and numbers are subject to change pending final balancing, please take a look at his new Dev Blog to read all about the moneymaking opportunities that will be coming with this new feature in Rubicon.

Enjoy!


So people can profit from work they didnt do nor invest ISK into themselves in yet another way. Too bad you refuse to reward the hard working players who don't make a living by griefing and stealing from other players. Perhaps you could add some better mining ships so the more honorable players can make more money for a change.

CCP. You disappoint me. Again.
marly cortez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1484 - 2013-11-11 14:42:05 UTC
16 towers removed as not being worth the effort anymore.

Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1485 - 2013-11-11 14:55:30 UTC
Omega Flames wrote:
Verdis deMosays wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:
Verdis deMosays wrote:
As a member of a small null alliance I love these changes. The siphons are an interesting idea and will be something I deploy on a regular basis with my Prowler. I think this will make for a lot more productive time gate camping too, since cloaky haulers will be in and out of null on a more regular basis to check on their little autonomous thieves.

Also the Goon response has been priceless. Here's my reaction to it.
http://www.ghostofthefuture.com/images/Ani2/UnfathomableSadness.gif


Seeing as goons message has consistently been "this is OP we will abuse it till it is nerfed and it will be the little guys that get screwed" I think you will find that goons = Cartman in that image.


Assuming you trust the opinion of the goonswarm, who have consistently shown themselves as an exploitive economic coalition. Honestly, if they are raising hell about how OP and unfair this is its a good sign to me that the existence of this item really worries them. The 74 pages of goon tears are pretty much proof of that. Assuming that CCP doesn't cave to the cries of the goons who control the majority of the moons worth anything I think the siphon will be a nice piratical way to break their hold on the T2 market. And before any goons or alts thereof start debating me on that, I'll just remind people of Hulkageddon and that time of GoonFun.

who needs to trust goons? I don't trust them farther than i can throw an elephant, but I do trust the brain God gave me (since I actually use it unlike most of humanity) and the almost 2 decades of studying human behavior and almost as long studying economics. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how difficult the logistics of attacking any of the large well defended null sec alliance's pos with these siphons is vs attacking any of the small not nearly as well defended low sec entities with them.

Also by mentioning the hulkageddon you are literally making their point for them because the permageddon was the final catalyst to making ccp actually rebalance the exhumers so they were worth using again due to how easy they were to kill by suicide gankers. I'll give you 1 guess which side the goons were on during the permageddon.

If you have a low sec POS you'll be fine. Check it regularly, get your stuff back then shoot the siphon. This will mainly affect big alliances with many moons. The little guy will be fine.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
GodSentMe
Playing God Enterprises
#1486 - 2013-11-11 18:06:13 UTC
as far as getting in to null with a cloaked t3 it is not hard, but most people seem to forget about wormholes. On my alt i regularly visit large alliance sov space with out any problems. I know you cant pick where you will end up but it makes getting in very easy. Once in and away from the boarders most systems are empty. It also makes it a good staging point to blops in to another section of space. So don't think creative players with a small sense of coordination are not able to disrupt moon mining empires in deep null. it will just take a little more effort then hitting a lowsec corp.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#1487 - 2013-11-11 18:34:46 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
If you have a low sec POS you'll be fine. Check it regularly, get your stuff back then shoot the siphon. This will mainly affect big alliances with many moons. The little guy will be fine.


I'm going to save this quote for later.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1488 - 2013-11-11 18:44:00 UTC
Verdis deMosays wrote:

Assuming you trust the opinion of the goonswarm, who have consistently shown themselves as an exploitive economic coalition. Honestly, if they are raising hell about how OP and unfair this is its a good sign to me that the existence of this item really worries them. The 74 pages of goon tears are pretty much proof of that. Assuming that CCP doesn't cave to the cries of the goons who control the majority of the moons worth anything I think the siphon will be a nice piratical way to break their hold on the T2 market. And before any goons or alts thereof start debating me on that, I'll just remind people of Hulkageddon and that time of GoonFun.

we tell the unvarnished truth because you won't believe us and it makes it even more hilarious when we're completely right for exactly the reasons we said we'd be right while you're spluttering in outrage about how dare the goonies abuse siphons

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1489 - 2013-11-12 01:17:22 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Verdis deMosays wrote:

Assuming you trust the opinion of the goonswarm, who have consistently shown themselves as an exploitive economic coalition. Honestly, if they are raising hell about how OP and unfair this is its a good sign to me that the existence of this item really worries them. The 74 pages of goon tears are pretty much proof of that. Assuming that CCP doesn't cave to the cries of the goons who control the majority of the moons worth anything I think the siphon will be a nice piratical way to break their hold on the T2 market. And before any goons or alts thereof start debating me on that, I'll just remind people of Hulkageddon and that time of GoonFun.

we tell the unvarnished truth because you won't believe us and it makes it even more hilarious when we're completely right for exactly the reasons we said we'd be right while you're spluttering in outrage about how dare the goonies abuse siphon

when ccp nerfs it for them it will again be their victory

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1490 - 2013-11-12 11:21:57 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Omega Flames wrote:
Verdis deMosays wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:
Verdis deMosays wrote:
As a member of a small null alliance I love these changes. The siphons are an interesting idea and will be something I deploy on a regular basis with my Prowler. I think this will make for a lot more productive time gate camping too, since cloaky haulers will be in and out of null on a more regular basis to check on their little autonomous thieves.

Also the Goon response has been priceless. Here's my reaction to it.
http://www.ghostofthefuture.com/images/Ani2/UnfathomableSadness.gif


Seeing as goons message has consistently been "this is OP we will abuse it till it is nerfed and it will be the little guys that get screwed" I think you will find that goons = Cartman in that image.


Assuming you trust the opinion of the goonswarm, who have consistently shown themselves as an exploitive economic coalition. Honestly, if they are raising hell about how OP and unfair this is its a good sign to me that the existence of this item really worries them. The 74 pages of goon tears are pretty much proof of that. Assuming that CCP doesn't cave to the cries of the goons who control the majority of the moons worth anything I think the siphon will be a nice piratical way to break their hold on the T2 market. And before any goons or alts thereof start debating me on that, I'll just remind people of Hulkageddon and that time of GoonFun.

who needs to trust goons? I don't trust them farther than i can throw an elephant, but I do trust the brain God gave me (since I actually use it unlike most of humanity) and the almost 2 decades of studying human behavior and almost as long studying economics. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how difficult the logistics of attacking any of the large well defended null sec alliance's pos with these siphons is vs attacking any of the small not nearly as well defended low sec entities with them.

Also by mentioning the hulkageddon you are literally making their point for them because the permageddon was the final catalyst to making ccp actually rebalance the exhumers so they were worth using again due to how easy they were to kill by suicide gankers. I'll give you 1 guess which side the goons were on during the permageddon.

If you have a low sec POS you'll be fine. Check it regularly, get your stuff back then shoot the siphon. This will mainly affect big alliances with many moons. The little guy will be fine.


Cause 10 - 20% destroyed moon goo is nothing, you will recover all of the goo unless anyone else empties it and big alliances don't have 23.5/7 coverage of their space.

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1491 - 2013-11-12 19:32:22 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Verdis deMosays wrote:

Assuming you trust the opinion of the goonswarm, who have consistently shown themselves as an exploitive economic coalition. Honestly, if they are raising hell about how OP and unfair this is its a good sign to me that the existence of this item really worries them.


You're either pretty dense, pretty inattentive, entirely divorced from reality, or all of the above. Goonswarm DOES, in fact, have a tradition of economic exploitation...


...but I can't recall them ever being deceptive or misleading about that in any way. In fact, it's generally the EXACT opposite of deception. A pattern we've seen repeatedly has been as follows:

1. Goons call out a certain mechanic or gameplay aspect as being broken, going so far as to explicitly telegraph precisely how they will exploit the mechanic in its current form.

2. People with goldfish-memories and an anti-goon bias go, "HOOHOOHOO GOONS DON'T LIKE IT, MUST BE GOOD FOR ME!"

3. Goons exploit the ever-loving **** out of it to the detriment of the Goldfish, precisely as they said they would.

4. Goldfish throw a tantrum about how awful goons are, completely ignoring that the Goons were first in line to point out the problem.

5. CCP fixes it, Goldfish gloat about how unhappy Goons must be, now.

Frankly, the brilliant thing about the Goons is that there's a subclass of player that hates Goons so much that they will actively campaign against their own interests, so long as it allows them to contradict something a Goon said on the forum.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Angus McRothimay
Fenrir Vangard
#1492 - 2013-11-12 23:04:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Angus McRothimay
Like many Eve players I like new toys.

Because it's a new toy I will buy a few of them and not worrying too much about their cost I will venture out to see if they are fun to play with - with the chance making money an added bonus.

Apparently the only thing I have to worry about is if there is anyone in the system with me - as they may be able to "man the guns" & kill the little sucker - but if no one is present then I'm-a-going-to steal your stuff


NOTE
(1) If you have an unattended POS then my larceny may affect you

(2) if you have lots of them - the chance that it's your POS I'm stealing from will increase.

(3) If its fun I'm going to keep stealing your stuff even it I don't make any money
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#1493 - 2013-11-13 14:58:52 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

If you have a low sec POS you'll be fine. Check it regularly, get your stuff back then shoot the siphon. This will mainly affect big alliances with many moons. The little guy will be fine.


Yep I can see how 1 guy checking 5 towers 23/7 will definitely be more efficient than 10,000 guys checking 500 towers 23/7.

The big alliances are definitely getting the worst of this!
Angus McRothimay
Fenrir Vangard
#1494 - 2013-11-13 15:24:01 UTC
xttz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

If you have a low sec POS you'll be fine. Check it regularly, get your stuff back then shoot the siphon. This will mainly affect big alliances with many moons. The little guy will be fine.


Yep I can see how 1 guy checking 5 towers 23/7 will definitely be more efficient than 10,000 guys checking 500 towers 23/7.

The big alliances are definitely getting the worst of this!




5/1 = 5
500/10,000 = .05

No, actually it is 100 times more efficient to check 500 towers with 10,000 guys.

xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#1495 - 2013-11-13 15:55:10 UTC
Angus McRothimay wrote:


5/1 = 5
500/10,000 = .05

No, actually it is 100 times more efficient to check 500 towers with 10,000 guys.



Really?!!?
Angus McRothimay
Fenrir Vangard
#1496 - 2013-11-13 16:17:02 UTC
xttz wrote:
Angus McRothimay wrote:


5/1 = 5
500/10,000 = .05

No, actually it is 100 times more efficient to check 500 towers with 10,000 guys.



Really?!!?



Yes really .....
Unless the original statement was sarcasm and you really think it will be "better" for the big corps -- in which case you should try to understand that sarcasm is harder to convey in written communication than verbally.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1497 - 2013-11-14 11:34:04 UTC
xttz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

If you have a low sec POS you'll be fine. Check it regularly, get your stuff back then shoot the siphon. This will mainly affect big alliances with many moons. The little guy will be fine.


Yep I can see how 1 guy checking 5 towers 23/7 will definitely be more efficient than 10,000 guys checking 500 towers 23/7.

The big alliances are definitely getting the worst of this!

I think very few 1 man corps have 5 towers. And Goons will certainly not have 10000 people checking towers. What you are trying to do is fudge the reality with bogus math.

The reality is that the small corps will behave like the small shopkeeper. He works hard, keeps things spic and span because he relies solely on his one shop. Goons will behave like Wallmart employees.

The reality is the small guy has POS guns, checks his POS and will be fine. Goons, well let's say I spent a lot of time bookmarking GEWN towers over the last few weeks and they're spread right across CFC space, a lot are just large towers with no defensive weaponry at all full of silos and moon harvesting arrays. Ripe for the siphoning.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1498 - 2013-11-14 15:14:47 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
xttz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

If you have a low sec POS you'll be fine. Check it regularly, get your stuff back then shoot the siphon. This will mainly affect big alliances with many moons. The little guy will be fine.


Yep I can see how 1 guy checking 5 towers 23/7 will definitely be more efficient than 10,000 guys checking 500 towers 23/7.

The big alliances are definitely getting the worst of this!

I think very few 1 man corps have 5 towers. And Goons will certainly not have 10000 people checking towers. What you are trying to do is fudge the reality with bogus math.

The reality is that the small corps will behave like the small shopkeeper. He works hard, keeps things spic and span because he relies solely on his one shop. Goons will behave like Wallmart employees.

The reality is the small guy has POS guns, checks his POS and will be fine. Goons, well let's say I spent a lot of time bookmarking GEWN towers over the last few weeks and they're spread right across CFC space, a lot are just large towers with no defensive weaponry at all full of silos and moon harvesting arrays. Ripe for the siphoning.
Good luck with that. Logistically, if your going to do it to try and make isk, your setting your self a huge time consuming task. If your doing it simply to try and grief them, lol. I'm glad it's your isk being wasted and not mine.

Goons certainly won't have 10,000 people checking pos's and why would they need to, 1 trial alt can monitor a pos quite well.
Say GOONS / CFC does have 500 pos's, they are also around 40,000 strong so even if only 1 in 100 of those creates a pos alt to watch for syphon's, they will have more than enough to be able to watch over things. Then you have the roaming fleets and small gangs in their sov space, which is all connected via jump bridges, jump clones and intel channels.

I'm not saying don't do it, on the contrary, go for it and please post your results here in a few months time. I'd be really interested to hear how it goes.

NB; MANY small operators in moon mining have more than 5 towers as it is the only way to make running the cheaper reactions and unrefined reactions pay.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1499 - 2013-11-14 16:41:11 UTC
Angus McRothimay wrote:

Yes really .....
Unless the original statement was sarcasm and you really think it will be "better" for the big corps -- in which case you should try to understand that sarcasm is harder to convey in written communication than verbally.

you're right, there was no possible way to puzzle out that was sarcasm

shame on you xttz for being sarcastic in print without saying you were being sarcastic

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#1500 - 2013-11-14 16:41:22 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:


The reality is that the small corps will behave like the small shopkeeper. He works hard, keeps things spic and span because he relies solely on his one shop. Goons will behave like Wallmart employees.


ITT I learn that small shopkeepers work 23/7, ever vigilant and alert.