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To floggeth a dead horse...eth

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Sebastien LeReparteur
SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp
#121 - 2013-11-11 15:21:49 UTC
[Spoilers]

Beware of trolls

[/spoilers]

Enough with the paraphrased parabolas please...

---- Resume the last 3 or 4 pages in :------------------

Some guy is sad that CCP as made a bad RP move, which in theories could cost them subscription (just not the trolls, I believe they love Eve too much to hide under any another bridge)

Some other guy are saying (Can I haze Yourz Stuffz?)
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#122 - 2013-11-11 15:38:36 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Sebastien LeReparteur wrote:



---- Resume the last 3 or 4 pages in :------------------

Some guy is sad that CCP as made a bad RP move, which in theories could cost them subscription (just not the trolls, I believe they love Eve too much to hide under any another bridge)

Some other guy are saying (Can I haze Yourz Stuffz?)


Has and are not could. and not in theory but in practice.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#123 - 2013-11-11 16:24:17 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
it was not advertised as a PVP

wait a minute, what? What?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#124 - 2013-11-11 19:13:59 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
no this event was similar to:

a friend invites you to a party
it takes 15 mins to get there,
on your way there your friend calls you and tells you the party has been relocated 25 km from where you are, the location is unsettling but being that is your childhood friend you trust him,
you start driving there, but lose direction of where to go so you call your friend to tell you "he leads you one way and then the other" finally, loads of heavy traffic on the road so it takes you 2 hours to get there
You arrive on the frontyard, the sprinklers turn on full and a doberman comes and bites you in the balls, you manage to make it to the door, you ring the doorbell, a water bucket drops on your head, you hear laughter from behind the door,

your friend answers (laughing) tells you the party is over, kicks you in the balls, spits on your face and pushes you down the stairs and tells you "you should have come prepared bro" "LOL TEARS"
yea that's how i'd describe it.


Ha, now that did actually make me chuckle some Big smile

Jokes aside, you were way to trusting of your friend. It still does need explaining why CCP should protect you in null.


Yeah, the fact they ARE A GAME COMPANY and that we pay their wages, Might just give us the impression that they might not awox us for giggles.

Foolish Me



Hey guys. Both of you are right.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
El Jin'meiko
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#125 - 2013-11-11 22:03:56 UTC
Why not just spend a week messing around with those pirate actor accounts in the areas they are choosing to host these live events, post news articles along with loss/killmails relating to said actors and follow it through with a series of live events spread over the weekend?

If adequate preperations had been made then everyone in eve would have known that something was going to happen and no doubt would have had the opportunity to shoot some pirate actors (or even flown in gangs/fleet with them becuase lets face it tonnes of players would), and slowly moved towards a massive server lagging slugfest over the weekend with players understanding mostly where they were going to be, roughly what ships and who they were going to be flying with.
I realize this would have taken some initiative and of course some of CCP's workforce but as stated they do have a large playerbase with tonnes of RP guys that would have loved to help out given the opportunity and guess what, they wouldnt even want anything for it, just the opportunity to be a part of an awesome event.

6/10 is too high imo lol
Edam Neadenil
Bax Corporation
#126 - 2013-11-11 22:13:45 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:


Nulsec is lawless and controlled by several large groups who ( ccp have no control of)




more the other way ... who CCP are also controlled by ... but meh who really cares
Killerjock
Von Neumann Industries
#127 - 2013-11-12 00:19:59 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
Killerjock wrote:
It seems way ridicolous that you judge a post by the date at which the character has been created.
Ideas and concepts should be discussed independently of who expressed them.


I'm not sure you read the bit in question, in fact I'm pretty sure you skim read, but you missed the part where the player I was addressing specifically said the length of time they'd been playing, i.e. just over one year.

Reading the whole post is worthwhile if you want to respond with any substance.


I usually don't skim, I read thoroughly; I might've missed that part though.
Since you've missed or ignored my last two sentences, that makes it even eh? ;)

Quote:
Quote:
You can go round and round little details missing the fact that there is a humongous elephant in the room.


Friend, I think you greatly overestimate how many people you claim to speak for.


While you might be right on that account, the sentence I extracted from epicurus post (pardon me, mate) still holds water.
There's three of you supporting CCP on this.
Go check how many are complaining - add to this that I came into this topic (and all these threads) with 8 "likes" and I'm at 73 - might mean nothing, but i'd say there's quite some pissed people around. And I wouldn't say it's getting better.

But hey. It's just 2000 people at the very most, won't make a dent, right?
The SOMER one didn't make a dent, the jita burning didn't make a dent, the lottery scandal didn't make a dent... and 2 years ago we had 40k players on at european prime time, now we've got 25k.

In italy we have a saying - "even ants, in their own way, get angry".
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#128 - 2013-11-12 01:10:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
So what's the actual stat for people who participated and/or attempted to participate?


The outcome and the opinions thereof matter far less when one considers that a live event got more people to go to nullsec at once than just about anything else that happened in the game.


I want a real statistic to use when the nullsec ragers, bored for lack of targets or ship-spinning because there's a neutral in local, come into these forums complaining about "risk averse carebears". Be advised that the live event was on a weekday too, not in a major US TZ either (and during work hours for US TZs). If there's a number in the thousands, with factors like this, every "high seccers are afraid to go to nullsec" argument is dead.

And that should be seen as an accomplishment. When the smoke clears from the griping and boasting, someone at CCP needs a pat on the back for at least this much, even if it did turn into an un-announced lemming run.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#129 - 2013-11-12 01:42:36 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Killerjock wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
Killerjock wrote:
It seems way ridicolous that you judge a post by the date at which the character has been created.
Ideas and concepts should be discussed independently of who expressed them.


I'm not sure you read the bit in question, in fact I'm pretty sure you skim read, but you missed the part where the player I was addressing specifically said the length of time they'd been playing, i.e. just over one year.

Reading the whole post is worthwhile if you want to respond with any substance.


I usually don't skim, I read thoroughly; I might've missed that part though.
Since you've missed or ignored my last two sentences, that makes it even eh? ;)

Quote:
Quote:
You can go round and round little details missing the fact that there is a humongous elephant in the room.


Friend, I think you greatly overestimate how many people you claim to speak for.


While you might be right on that account, the sentence I extracted from epicurus post (pardon me, mate) still holds water.
There's three of you supporting CCP on this.
Go check how many are complaining - add to this that I came into this topic (and all these threads) with 8 "likes" and I'm at 73 - might mean nothing, but i'd say there's quite some pissed people around. And I wouldn't say it's getting better.

But hey. It's just 2000 people at the very most, won't make a dent, right?
The SOMER one didn't make a dent, the jita burning didn't make a dent, the lottery scandal didn't make a dent... and 2 years ago we had 40k players on at european prime time, now we've got 25k.

In italy we have a saying - "even ants, in their own way, get angry".


304 likes!ShockedShockedShocked what does that mean? people agree! I think I was 20 or so before Roll

I just added up all the likes on these posts, I think I saw 3 or 4 posters that thought CCP did a really fantastic JobShocked

We are talking a humongous number.But pales into comparison to the views, Must be getting to 30000 soon. Might just be a bit of interest in this matter and not an insignificant minority as was suggested by a couple of posters.


Do they have Ants in Iceland?, I do not know Italian wildlife but In Greece and Turkey they have some pretty awesome ants.
You really would not want to make them annoyed, even a little bit.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Edam Neadenil
Bax Corporation
#130 - 2013-11-12 02:05:23 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So what's the actual stat for people who participated and/or attempted to participate?


The outcome and the opinions thereof matter far less when one considers that a live event got more people to go to nullsec at once than just about anything else that happened in the game.


I want a real statistic to use when the nullsec ragers, bored for lack of targets or ship-spinning because there's a neutral in local, come into these forums complaining about "risk averse carebears". Be advised that the live event was on a weekday too, not in a major US TZ either (and during work hours for US TZs). If there's a number in the thousands, with factors like this, every "high seccers are afraid to go to nullsec" argument is dead.

And that should be seen as an accomplishment. When the smoke clears from the griping and boasting, someone at CCP needs a pat on the back for at least this much, even if it did turn into an un-announced lemming run.



... and at 3.00 am to 5.00 am for the Asian/Aussie/NZ timezone ...
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#131 - 2013-11-12 02:17:01 UTC
Just to put things in perspective CCP goliath posts were not very liked at allSad
But overall likes are fast approaching 3000.
CCP Goliath we do appreciate you and If you were allowed to update us your popularity would soar Big smile so long as it was a genuine effort and not just picking on the single posting that congratulated you on how well this Unique event was run.Shocked

It really was not your finest hour.What?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Killerjock
Von Neumann Industries
#132 - 2013-11-12 09:47:12 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If there's a number in the thousands, with factors like this, every "high seccers are afraid to go to nullsec" argument is dead.


FWIW, I think the answers on these threads have put it to rest for good ;) Nullseccers kept asking why did we go and lose our ships if we knew we would, and carebears kepts answering the ships were a small price to pay.

Quote:
And that should be seen as an accomplishment. When the smoke clears from the griping and boasting, someone at CCP needs a pat on the back for at least this much, even if it did turn into an un-announced lemming run.


Uhm, no.
"How many players went to nullsec on nov 7th" answers the question: "How many carebears are willing to lose a ship to have fun?" or "How much faith did hiseccers have in CCP?"
But to measure the results of this you'll have to ask yourself: "How many players who went to nullsec on nov 7th are going to go back there?" - or "How many of those will attend another CCP-led event?"
And if THAT percentage is high, then yes, CCP deserves a pat on the back. Otherwise, kick down below might be a more accurate response ;)

"epicurus ataraxia" wrote:
Just to put things in perspective CCP goliath posts were not very liked at allSad
But overall likes are fast approaching 3000.


I did not wan to make this a "likes" contest :)
Bear in mind that between me and you only there's a dozen threads and over 20 messages. And I didn't open any thread ;) So it's quite easy to sum up a bunch of likes and turn it into a big number. Besides, the same people liked many posts from me and you and maximus, I liked some of yours and vice versa.
"Likes" aren't a good measure of much; they can be used as a trend indicator maybe and not much of one.

So, again we're having information through twitter? They don't get it eh?
El Jin'meiko
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#133 - 2013-11-12 10:16:37 UTC
twitter, i dont use twitter, its aweful
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#134 - 2013-11-12 13:22:02 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Killerjock wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If there's a number in the thousands, with factors like this, every "high seccers are afraid to go to nullsec" argument is dead.


FWIW, I think the answers on these threads have put it to rest for good ;) Nullseccers kept asking why did we go and lose our ships if we knew we would, and carebears kepts answering the ships were a small price to pay.

Quote:
And that should be seen as an accomplishment. When the smoke clears from the griping and boasting, someone at CCP needs a pat on the back for at least this much, even if it did turn into an un-announced lemming run.


Uhm, no.
"How many players went to nullsec on nov 7th" answers the question: "How many carebears are willing to lose a ship to have fun?" or "How much faith did hiseccers have in CCP?"
But to measure the results of this you'll have to ask yourself: "How many players who went to nullsec on nov 7th are going to go back there?" - or "How many of those will attend another CCP-led event?"
And if THAT percentage is high, then yes, CCP deserves a pat on the back. Otherwise, kick down below might be a more accurate response ;)

"epicurus ataraxia" wrote:
Just to put things in perspective CCP goliath posts were not very liked at allSad
But overall likes are fast approaching 3000.


I did not wan to make this a "likes" contest :)
Bear in mind that between me and you only there's a dozen threads and over 20 messages. And I didn't open any thread ;) So it's quite easy to sum up a bunch of likes and turn it into a big number. Besides, the same people liked many posts from me and you and maximus, I liked some of yours and vice versa.
"Likes" aren't a good measure of much; they can be used as a trend indicator maybe and not much of one.

So, again we're having information through twitter? They don't get it eh?


Agreed likes are a pretty meaningless concept and a useless metric, but it seems that CCP like their metrics so might mean something to them.

Twitter? My God there is more chance of finding an individual post in jita local!

I would rather tie a message to a rabid hyena whilst wearing nothing but a spray on tan made of meat juices than use twitter for a meaningful message.

note to CCP twitter is no longer L33t or cool ,and it is mainstream in the sense that influenza is.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#135 - 2013-11-12 17:21:58 UTC
Killerjock wrote:

There's three of you supporting CCP on this.

Not really, I don't think any one is supporting anyone or anything here.

I would say some people just say that screw-ups do happen, give suggestions and criticism and go on their merry way.

And then there's other people who are blowing it out of proportions with "I will unsub , I will not unsub, I will unsub" or "person responsible for this event should get fired" or my favorite "This is the end..." and other such nonsense.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#136 - 2013-11-12 17:32:00 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So what's the actual stat for people who participated and/or attempted to participate?


The outcome and the opinions thereof matter far less when one considers that a live event got more people to go to nullsec at once than just about anything else that happened in the game.


I want a real statistic to use when the nullsec ragers, bored for lack of targets or ship-spinning because there's a neutral in local, come into these forums complaining about "risk averse carebears". Be advised that the live event was on a weekday too, not in a major US TZ either (and during work hours for US TZs). If there's a number in the thousands, with factors like this, every "high seccers are afraid to go to nullsec" argument is dead.

And that should be seen as an accomplishment. When the smoke clears from the griping and boasting, someone at CCP needs a pat on the back for at least this much, even if it did turn into an un-announced lemming run.


I have some rough stats you can have. Peak population in Sarum Prime was 1290. Meves was slightly over 900 but the exact figure I cannot get for some reason... Doril peaked at 1170, RMOC at 327, 8V at 448. These are only peaks, not throughput, but I would estimate that between 2500-4000 people got involved in fighting. Overall peak numbers involved (including those who dropped out at low/null) are probably around 3000-5000, but that's guesswork. In summary, less overall than BFCP, but a very nice number considering the difference in build up and advertising between the two events.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Killerjock
Von Neumann Industries
#137 - 2013-11-12 17:45:55 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Killerjock wrote:

There's three of you supporting CCP on this.

Not really, I don't think any one is supporting anyone or anything here.

I would say some people just say that screw-ups do happen, give suggestions and criticism and go on their merry way.

And then there's other people who are blowing it out of proportions with "I will unsub , I will not unsub, I will unsub" or "person responsible for this event should get fired" or my favorite "This is the end..." and other such nonsense.


I do say screw up happen. I don't realistically think that CCP purposedly used part of its playerbase as entertainment for others. Yet I also think when a screw up happens, you take responsibility for it.

I would've loved to discuss this with the people I should have, but they've chosen not to answer so far, and to do so when they will in a way that is outside this forum. I've had plenty of time to discuss with those who claim anything that went wrong is the participants fault, though.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#138 - 2013-11-12 18:23:04 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So what's the actual stat for people who participated and/or attempted to participate?


The outcome and the opinions thereof matter far less when one considers that a live event got more people to go to nullsec at once than just about anything else that happened in the game.


I want a real statistic to use when the nullsec ragers, bored for lack of targets or ship-spinning because there's a neutral in local, come into these forums complaining about "risk averse carebears". Be advised that the live event was on a weekday too, not in a major US TZ either (and during work hours for US TZs). If there's a number in the thousands, with factors like this, every "high seccers are afraid to go to nullsec" argument is dead.

And that should be seen as an accomplishment. When the smoke clears from the griping and boasting, someone at CCP needs a pat on the back for at least this much, even if it did turn into an un-announced lemming run.


I have some rough stats you can have. Peak population in Sarum Prime was 1290. Meves was slightly over 900 but the exact figure I cannot get for some reason... Doril peaked at 1170, RMOC at 327, 8V at 448. These are only peaks, not throughput, but I would estimate that between 2500-4000 people got involved in fighting. Overall peak numbers involved (including those who dropped out at low/null) are probably around 3000-5000, but that's guesswork. In summary, less overall than BFCP, but a very nice number considering the difference in build up and advertising between the two events.




Wow! Thanks!

Live events are very popular. I hope the next one has this much turnout.

I'll ante up a faction ship for a PVP brawl too. Just make sure Super General has the day off.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#139 - 2013-11-12 19:25:24 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
You know, as a dedicated RPer and amateur lore buff of nearly 2 years, I understand the frustration of some that the event (seemingly) didn't elaborate more on whatever story arc it was, or that it didn't seem to have much purpose.

But one of the things we should bear in mind about this game is that there is never a guarantee of winning any given situation, we didn't win so we don't have the beloved lore breadcrumb, but if CCP made it so that it could be loseable, they might have something in mind to turn it around and give us more clues. I don't think I'd ever ask anyone to have faith in any company, but just that we keep our eyes open and be ready for the next thing.


I'm not sure why winning is such a fixation, here.

There is no reasonable variation on this event in which a high sec kitchen sink fleet would have triumphed, or even contended. Most high sec players understood that, which explains the parade of industrials, shuttles, and badly fit L2 mission ships pulled out of mothballs for the occasion. The empires losing, badly, was probably the point of the event, and that's fine. CCP has not been shy about announcing that the empires are in trouble: it's in the starter video for the game, after all. It's entirely possible that CCP is trying to announce the danger of continuing along as a lone wolf--unless you know how to join a pack and operate within it effectively when the time comes. That's fine, too. They just bobbled the execution.

The complete lack of followup, lore-wise, is also a missed opportunity. Ghost sites are cool. The event could have been amazing, even with a completely unchanged casualty rate. The fact that CCP is actively advancing the lore at all now is welcome. I hope they're listening and learning, so the next one's better.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Aynen
Federal Guard and Recon Corporation
#140 - 2013-11-12 22:05:02 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So what's the actual stat for people who participated and/or attempted to participate?


The outcome and the opinions thereof matter far less when one considers that a live event got more people to go to nullsec at once than just about anything else that happened in the game.


I want a real statistic to use when the nullsec ragers, bored for lack of targets or ship-spinning because there's a neutral in local, come into these forums complaining about "risk averse carebears". Be advised that the live event was on a weekday too, not in a major US TZ either (and during work hours for US TZs). If there's a number in the thousands, with factors like this, every "high seccers are afraid to go to nullsec" argument is dead.

And that should be seen as an accomplishment. When the smoke clears from the griping and boasting, someone at CCP needs a pat on the back for at least this much, even if it did turn into an un-announced lemming run.


I have some rough stats you can have. Peak population in Sarum Prime was 1290. Meves was slightly over 900 but the exact figure I cannot get for some reason... Doril peaked at 1170, RMOC at 327, 8V at 448. These are only peaks, not throughput, but I would estimate that between 2500-4000 people got involved in fighting. Overall peak numbers involved (including those who dropped out at low/null) are probably around 3000-5000, but that's guesswork. In summary, less overall than BFCP, but a very nice number considering the difference in build up and advertising between the two events.


Those numbers definitely indicate that there are many who want live events in general!