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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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poppeteer
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7501 - 2013-11-10 17:04:24 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Pretty old post t quote but to clarify, what I meant there was solo.
What ship can you solo clear 4 C5 battleships that neut?

I know. Your question, expanded with sleeper attributes, should assist you.
Which ships? Have at it and find out. PM if you hit a wall.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#7502 - 2013-11-10 17:07:10 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Then maybe you should explain to me then why the Vargur and the Kronos both have tracking bonuses.

Because tech 1 "Megathron" also has tracking bonus.

Apocalypse also has optimal range bonus, that's why paladin should have it.
Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#7503 - 2013-11-10 17:08:15 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
Doed wrote:

[Kronos, Live][....]
[Kronos, Sisi Blasters 3TC][....]

Since you seem to joined this discussion quite recently you may have missed my posts where I state that I'd rather compare performance, not analyze stats and attributes. That said, your fits look solid with one caveat though: on SiSi you are supposed to use MJD. Not every time of course but when targets are at, say, 75km or up then you are better off with than without.

I repeat, while blasters can hit at 100km it doesn't mean you are supposed to shoot at that range. You are supposed to MJD and shoot up close. The art part comes in learning how to slowboat/AB/MWD between those jumps so they are most effective.

And earlier you mentioned you are disappointed. What results did you get so you came to that conclusion?




Swap DCU for CPR and add TE when MJD is needed (swap out TC for the MJD obv) (Taken from the post about fits I just posted)

rail fit dumps 1 hardner for CPR and adds another TC (MJD when needed)
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#7504 - 2013-11-10 17:08:15 UTC
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
SOL Ranger wrote:
Spc One wrote:
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
So can I use the mobile depot to load missiles instantly? As in not needing to wait the 10 seconds or whatever it is?

Yes.

Same thing works if you have a titan or carrier near you.


Not true, not at least last week when I tested it.


3rd reply to go with majority?

I just tested: loading ammo via depot's fitting services still incurs ammo loading timer.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#7505 - 2013-11-10 17:10:13 UTC
Spc One wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Then maybe you should explain to me then why the Vargur and the Kronos both have tracking bonuses.

Because tech 1 "Megathron" also has tracking bonus.

Apocalypse also has optimal range bonus, that's why paladin should have it.


Apocalypse also has a tracking bonus, that's why the Paladin should have it.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#7506 - 2013-11-10 17:11:50 UTC
Doed wrote:
Swap DCU for CPR and add TE when MJD is needed (swap out TC for the MJD obv) (Taken from the post about fits I just posted)

rail fit dumps 1 hardner for CPR and adds another TC (MJD when needed)

I know how to fit MJD into the ship, thank you very much. I was writing about how to use it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7507 - 2013-11-10 17:12:41 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Spc One wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Then maybe you should explain to me then why the Vargur and the Kronos both have tracking bonuses.

Because tech 1 "Megathron" also has tracking bonus.

Apocalypse also has optimal range bonus, that's why paladin should have it.


Apocalypse also has a tracking bonus, that's why the Paladin should have it.


Then you make the nightmare pointless and the paladin overpowered.
SOL Ranger
Imperial Armed Forces
#7508 - 2013-11-10 17:25:29 UTC  |  Edited by: SOL Ranger
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:


3rd reply to go with majority?


Double checked on SiSi just now, there is no way to bypass the reload mechanic, any kind of load/reload will trigger the 10s reload process when using a mobile depot, be it with ammo from the depot or your ship cargo bay.

The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.
Brib Vogt
Doomheim
#7509 - 2013-11-10 17:30:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Spc One wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Then maybe you should explain to me then why the Vargur and the Kronos both have tracking bonuses.

Because tech 1 "Megathron" also has tracking bonus.

Apocalypse also has optimal range bonus, that's why paladin should have it.


Apocalypse also has a tracking bonus, that's why the Paladin should have it.


Then you make the nightmare pointless and the paladin overpowered.



Nightmare pointless? you can fly it so early and switch to paladin when you have the skills. Isn't that the major advantage from T1 -> Faction -> T2. You have T2 potential at higher price with less skills.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#7510 - 2013-11-10 17:44:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Spc One wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Then maybe you should explain to me then why the Vargur and the Kronos both have tracking bonuses.

Because tech 1 "Megathron" also has tracking bonus.

Apocalypse also has optimal range bonus, that's why paladin should have it.


Apocalypse also has a tracking bonus, that's why the Paladin should have it.

Maybe paladin should have both bonuses optimal and tracking.
That said it would look like this:

Amarr Battleship skill bonus per level:
5% bonus to Capacitor capacity
7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range
7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking

Marauders skill bonus per level:
7.5% bonus to Armor Repair amount
5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage
100% bonus to range and velocity of Tractor Beams
70% reduction to Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay
Can fit Bastion Modules

Good enough ?
I still think tracking for paladin is overpowered.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#7511 - 2013-11-10 17:54:05 UTC
Brib Vogt wrote:
Nightmare pointless? you can fly it so early and switch to paladin when you have the skills. Isn't that the major advantage from T1 -> Faction -> T2. You have T2 potential at higher price with less skills.

No. "Balancing" factor of skill requirements has exactly the same value as the price: nothing after you have and can fly both ships.

The question is, when you have them, do you have valid reasons to use each ship?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7512 - 2013-11-10 18:00:18 UTC
Brib Vogt wrote:



Nightmare pointless? you can fly it so early and switch to paladin when you have the skills. Isn't that the major advantage from T1 -> Faction -> T2. You have T2 potential at higher price with less skills.


No its not.

The whole point of teircide is to make all ships viable.
stoicfaux
#7513 - 2013-11-10 18:26:22 UTC
SOL Ranger wrote:
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:


3rd reply to go with majority?


Double checked on SiSi just now, there is no way to bypass the reload mechanic, any kind of load/reload will trigger the 10s reload process when using a mobile depot, be it with ammo from the depot or your ship cargo bay.

Ditto. Plus if a module is in the middle of a cycle/timer, you can't remove the module from your ship. So a Bastion module in the middle of its one minute active cycle cannot be removed.

However, laser weapons don't have a reload, so go nuts swapping between pulse and beam lasers as needed.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Shivanthar
#7514 - 2013-11-10 19:11:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
Anize Oramara wrote:
poppeteer wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
what I am most interested in though is ofcourse the possible usesin c5. itd be great for example to clear high end gas and ore sites without needing a carrier and even clearing cruisers in combat sites. everytjing I know tells me that itd work great but I will want to test it on sisi.

This is already possible.

Pretty old post t quote but to clarify, what I meant there was solo. What ship can you solo clear 4 C5 battleships that neut?


Vargur.
Double ASB Vargur with passive ressist modules can solo any neut setup.

Edit: Before Rubicon
Edit 2: I did test neuting lvl5s, but not c5's in sisi, so It should work there too. Only used mobile setup without bastion.
Edit 3: I soloed a pvp all-neuting-to-hell domi in this setup in sisi, which is much worse than any neuting I experienced. Even my damage controller stopped working :PP. I had to let him flee, because his cap boosters ran out before mines and I was unable to engage my scram on him because there were simply no cap to run any active module.

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#7515 - 2013-11-10 20:52:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Brib Vogt wrote:



Nightmare pointless? you can fly it so early and switch to paladin when you have the skills. Isn't that the major advantage from T1 -> Faction -> T2. You have T2 potential at higher price with less skills.


No its not.

The whole point of teircide is to make all ships viable.


You say that as if Pirate ships have been rebalanced yet.

Let's not forget that a good many T2 ships were rendered allegedly "unviable" because of the Tiericide efforts conducted upon their T1 counterparts. The T2 ships are getting the balance pass to fix that right now. Pirate ships will probably come next because of this, which means any "uselessness" and "unviability" arising from a proper and lasting Marauder rebalance can be fixed at that time.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#7516 - 2013-11-10 21:17:48 UTC
I was under the impression that the Pirate ships would omfg the dps it burns my eyes! While the Marauders would be more balanced around tank as well as spank with sprinkling of random tractor?

Also thanks to everyone for checking the depot question.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#7517 - 2013-11-10 21:43:45 UTC  |  Edited by: hmskrecik
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The whole point of teircide is to make all ships viable.


You say that as if Pirate ships have been rebalanced yet.

Let's not forget that a good many T2 ships were rendered allegedly "unviable" because of the Tiericide efforts conducted upon their T1 counterparts. The T2 ships are getting the balance pass to fix that right now. Pirate ships will probably come next because of this, which means any "uselessness" and "unviability" arising from a proper and lasting Marauder rebalance can be fixed at that time.

I find it hard not to agree with this. The problem, as I see it, is that you have to start somewhere, somehow, and then iterate from there. Imagine what hell would break loose if CCP rebalanced each and every ship at once (and this is assuming it's within their manpower to do in reasonable time).
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7518 - 2013-11-11 02:33:11 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:


You say that as if Pirate ships have been rebalanced yet.

Let's not forget that a good many T2 ships were rendered allegedly "unviable" because of the Tiericide efforts conducted upon their T1 counterparts. The T2 ships are getting the balance pass to fix that right now. Pirate ships will probably come next because of this, which means any "uselessness" and "unviability" arising from a proper and lasting Marauder rebalance can be fixed at that time.


The nightmare is already a well balanced ship and will not be changing much.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#7519 - 2013-11-11 02:35:54 UTC
Marauders: RIP

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#7520 - 2013-11-11 02:44:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:


You say that as if Pirate ships have been rebalanced yet.

Let's not forget that a good many T2 ships were rendered allegedly "unviable" because of the Tiericide efforts conducted upon their T1 counterparts. The T2 ships are getting the balance pass to fix that right now. Pirate ships will probably come next because of this, which means any "uselessness" and "unviability" arising from a proper and lasting Marauder rebalance can be fixed at that time.


The nightmare is already a well balanced ship and will not be changing much.


Care to cite your internal sources within CCP?