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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#7481 - 2013-11-10 11:23:18 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Doed wrote:


it's not 10% better. you have to count your optimal range aswell and dropoff through falloff. if Bastion didn't get stacking nerfed so you could run 3 tracking comps and bastion for range on top of those bonuses it'd be something

It appears to me that you are terrible at math, and you have no idea how falloff mechanics work.

Oh. and I want to see your 90-100km Blaster Fit. I really do.


That is a hull bonus not a bastion bonus.

Again, you would know if you had bothered to test the ship.



10% bonus to large Hybrid Turret Falloff per level (instead of 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level)

Wow really, I didn't know!
'
Let's say it again then in a more detailed manner, since you are clearly not very bright!

10% falloff is not 10% more range. it's 10% more falloff. halfway through your falloff your falloff starts becoming ****.

3 range scripted TC's before bastion on the new Kronos with falloff bonus from HULL included.

18(optimal) + 51(falloff) range with Null. 19 + 54 with Bastion instead of 22-23 + 63-64 km falloff it would have with Bastion NOT stacking penalized. which would actually make it worth fitting blasters for more than 2 lvl 4 missions or 2 hubs in 0.0


Bastion on top of those 3 TC's take it to 19+54, that's a downright pathetic increase. Past 46km this isn't really going to be a whole lot of damage. at 40km rails do more damage anyway, and rails will kill your ****** cruisers and frigs ALOT easier than your "lol 2% of the chance I can hit at 100km with my blasters! <100 dps! yeah!"

With falloff bonus that's about 24% more effective range, not 50%(10% more range per level as you claimed)
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#7482 - 2013-11-10 14:35:32 UTC  |  Edited by: hmskrecik
Doed wrote:
Let's say it again then in a more detailed manner, since you are clearly not very bright!

Let's say it in very simple terms, since you have clearly not bothered to try the ship on test server.

Blaster Kronos on SiSi performs better than Rail Kronos on TQ in EVERY mission I could compare.

Edit: in case you are talking about PVP only, I know it's not the same as PVE but still it should give pretty good indicator of force projection and application.
Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#7483 - 2013-11-10 14:37:13 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
Doed wrote:
Let's say it again then in a more detailed manner, since you are clearly not very bright!

Let's say it in very simple terms, since you have clearly not bothered to try the ship on test server.

Blaster Kronos on SiSi performs better than Rail Kronos on TQ in EVERY mission I could compare.


Tried and tested. was disappointed.

Works well for Damsel in Distress though. which was already good with blasters.

Oh, and Vengeance it's alot better

But that's it.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#7484 - 2013-11-10 14:40:39 UTC  |  Edited by: hmskrecik
Doed wrote:
Tried and tested. was disappointed.

Since to me it performs already better it must mean either you didn't try hard enough on SiSi or that I fly it very badly on TQ.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#7485 - 2013-11-10 14:45:17 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
But of course, the Paladin is still a doomed ship without its web bonus.
Unless of course, you don't mind losing several million in small drones every mission.

Have you tried to use cheaper, tech2 version?
Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#7486 - 2013-11-10 14:51:09 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
Doed wrote:
Tried and tested. was disappointed.

Since to me it performs already better it must mean either you didn't try hard enough on SiSi or that I fly it very badly on TQ.


Fit on TQ?

Fit on Sisi?
Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#7487 - 2013-11-10 14:52:05 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
But of course, the Paladin is still a doomed ship without its web bonus.
Unless of course, you don't mind losing several million in small drones every mission.

Have you tried to use cheaper, tech2 version?


Paladin is REALLY good after this change, Paladin being so good is the reason I dislike how lame the Kronos is in comparison.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#7488 - 2013-11-10 15:00:19 UTC
Doed wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
But of course, the Paladin is still a doomed ship without its web bonus.
Unless of course, you don't mind losing several million in small drones every mission.

Have you tried to use cheaper, tech2 version?


Paladin is REALLY good after this change, Paladin being so good is the reason I dislike how lame the Kronos is in comparison.


Paladin might be better with that optimal bonus changed to tracking and the bastion bonuses unstacked.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#7489 - 2013-11-10 15:14:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Doed wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
But of course, the Paladin is still a doomed ship without its web bonus.
Unless of course, you don't mind losing several million in small drones every mission.

Have you tried to use cheaper, tech2 version?


Paladin is REALLY good after this change, Paladin being so good is the reason I dislike how lame the Kronos is in comparison.


Paladin might be better with that optimal bonus changed to tracking and the bastion bonuses unstacked.

If you add tracking to paladin, nightmare looses.
Tracking is for Nightmare, as it should be better as a pirate ship then paladin.

Paladin with tracking bonus will be insane and alot better than nightmare.
Good bonuses like tracking are only for pirate class battleships.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#7490 - 2013-11-10 15:18:53 UTC
Doed wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
Doed wrote:
Tried and tested. was disappointed.

Since to me it performs already better it must mean either you didn't try hard enough on SiSi or that I fly it very badly on TQ.


Fit on TQ?

Fit on Sisi?

Nothing too fancy.

4 guns
DED repper
Reactive hardener (+another hardener on TQ)
3 magstabs
Burst Rig II
2x TC
TE
optionally AB
MJD on SiSi

Fill the rest of the slots to taste
poppeteer
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7491 - 2013-11-10 15:34:20 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
what I am most interested in though is ofcourse the possible usesin c5. itd be great for example to clear high end gas and ore sites without needing a carrier and even clearing cruisers in combat sites. everytjing I know tells me that itd work great but I will want to test it on sisi.

This is already possible.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7492 - 2013-11-10 15:45:06 UTC
Doed wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Doed wrote:


it's not 10% better. you have to count your optimal range aswell and dropoff through falloff. if Bastion didn't get stacking nerfed so you could run 3 tracking comps and bastion for range on top of those bonuses it'd be something

It appears to me that you are terrible at math, and you have no idea how falloff mechanics work.

Oh. and I want to see your 90-100km Blaster Fit. I really do.


That is a hull bonus not a bastion bonus.

Again, you would know if you had bothered to test the ship.



10% bonus to large Hybrid Turret Falloff per level (instead of 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level)

Wow really, I didn't know!
'
Let's say it again then in a more detailed manner, since you are clearly not very bright!

10% falloff is not 10% more range. it's 10% more falloff. halfway through your falloff your falloff starts becoming ****.

3 range scripted TC's before bastion on the new Kronos with falloff bonus from HULL included.

18(optimal) + 51(falloff) range with Null. 19 + 54 with Bastion instead of 22-23 + 63-64 km falloff it would have with Bastion NOT stacking penalized. which would actually make it worth fitting blasters for more than 2 lvl 4 missions or 2 hubs in 0.0


Bastion on top of those 3 TC's take it to 19+54, that's a downright pathetic increase. Past 46km this isn't really going to be a whole lot of damage. at 40km rails do more damage anyway, and rails will kill your ****** cruisers and frigs ALOT easier than your "lol 2% of the chance I can hit at 100km with my blasters! <100 dps! yeah!"

With falloff bonus that's about 24% more effective range, not 50%(10% more range per level as you claimed)



Get off EFT and get testing it in game.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#7493 - 2013-11-10 15:49:45 UTC
So can I use the mobile depot to load missiles instantly? As in not needing to wait the 10 seconds or whatever it is?
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#7494 - 2013-11-10 15:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
So can I use the mobile depot to load missiles instantly? As in not needing to wait the 10 seconds or whatever it is?

Yes.

Same thing works if you have a titan or carrier near you.
Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#7495 - 2013-11-10 15:53:18 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
Doed wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
Doed wrote:
Tried and tested. was disappointed.

Since to me it performs already better it must mean either you didn't try hard enough on SiSi or that I fly it very badly on TQ.


Fit on TQ?

Fit on Sisi?

Nothing too fancy.

4 guns
DED repper
Reactive hardener (+another hardener on TQ)
3 magstabs
Burst Rig II
2x TC
TE
optionally AB
MJD on SiSi

Fill the rest of the slots to taste


[Kronos, Live]
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Damage Control II (removed for CPR and another TC/Sebo on certain missions)
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Warden II x3

Swap out hardner for CPR and add MJD for rails or another TC or Sebo for Buzz Kill etc for sisi

5% hardwirings, so 1007 dps with rails at 40km on live, 1076 ms with mwd on. MWD and repper were cheap when I bougt them like 2 years ago so not sure I'd sling out for a new set if I'd end up losing them.


[Kronos, Sisi Blasters 3TC]
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Damage Control II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Bastion Thingy Module

Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Swap DCU for CPR and add TE when MJD is needed (swap out TC for the MJD obv)

Deals same damage at rails up to about 33-34km, at that point rails deal more damage, Blasters simply don't reach far enough to warrant using them on anything but a very few missions
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#7496 - 2013-11-10 15:58:12 UTC
poppeteer wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
what I am most interested in though is ofcourse the possible usesin c5. itd be great for example to clear high end gas and ore sites without needing a carrier and even clearing cruisers in combat sites. everytjing I know tells me that itd work great but I will want to test it on sisi.

This is already possible.

Pretty old post t quote but to clarify, what I meant there was solo. What ship can you solo clear 4 C5 battleships that neut?

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#7497 - 2013-11-10 16:22:44 UTC  |  Edited by: hmskrecik
Doed wrote:

[Kronos, Live][....]
[Kronos, Sisi Blasters 3TC][....]

Since you seem to joined this discussion quite recently you may have missed my posts where I state that I'd rather compare performance, not analyze stats and attributes. That said, your fits look solid with one caveat though: on SiSi you are supposed to use MJD. Not every time of course but when targets are at, say, 75km or up then you are better off with than without.

I repeat, while blasters can hit at 100km it doesn't mean you are supposed to shoot at that range. You are supposed to MJD and shoot up close. The art part comes in learning how to slowboat/AB/MWD between those jumps so they are most effective.

And earlier you mentioned you are disappointed. What results did you get so you came to that conclusion?
SOL Ranger
Imperial Armed Forces
#7498 - 2013-11-10 16:25:55 UTC
Spc One wrote:
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
So can I use the mobile depot to load missiles instantly? As in not needing to wait the 10 seconds or whatever it is?

Yes.

Same thing works if you have a titan or carrier near you.


Not true, not at least last week when I tested it.

The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#7499 - 2013-11-10 16:36:20 UTC
SOL Ranger wrote:
Spc One wrote:
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
So can I use the mobile depot to load missiles instantly? As in not needing to wait the 10 seconds or whatever it is?

Yes.

Same thing works if you have a titan or carrier near you.


Not true, not at least last week when I tested it.


3rd reply to go with majority?
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#7500 - 2013-11-10 16:59:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Spc One wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Doed wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
But of course, the Paladin is still a doomed ship without its web bonus.
Unless of course, you don't mind losing several million in small drones every mission.

Have you tried to use cheaper, tech2 version?


Paladin is REALLY good after this change, Paladin being so good is the reason I dislike how lame the Kronos is in comparison.


Paladin might be better with that optimal bonus changed to tracking and the bastion bonuses unstacked.

If you add tracking to paladin, nightmare looses.
Tracking is for Nightmare, as it should be better as a pirate ship then paladin.

Paladin with tracking bonus will be insane and alot better than nightmare.
Good bonuses like tracking are only for pirate class battleships.


If tracking bonuses are reserved for Pirate ships, then maybe you should explain to me then why the Vargur and the Kronos both have tracking bonuses. Not only that, but both ships have a bonus that's identical to their pirate counterpart - Vargur and Machariel share a falloff bonus while Kronos and Vindicator share a tracking bonus.

The Nightmare is getting a rebalance anyway, along with the Machariel and Vindicator (and the Rattlesnake). I think the Nightmare is okay having its toes stepped on for a little bit, especially if it makes the current balancing job more successful.