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Probably the WORST event I've wasted my time on in my 10 years of EVE ...

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Raneru
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#821 - 2013-11-09 23:45:08 UTC
Well I had a blast during the event, literally. Our lowsec system was on the shortest route to utopia, much camping fun was had Pirate. The entry gate was littered with wrecks. It was estimated that we had over 115 kills.

Great event, would participate again :)
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#822 - 2013-11-09 23:49:29 UTC
Raneru wrote:
Well I had a blast during the event, literally. Our lowsec system was on the shortest route to utopia, much camping fun was had Pirate. The entry gate was littered with wrecks. It was estimated that we had over 115 kills.

Great event, would participate again :)

Congratulations, you had a gate camp. Still doesn't make it a Live Event.

From the PvP side, sure, PvP happened. From the Live Event side, it was a major screw up since the lore got made to look like a joke by CCP from this event. They should have written a chronicle & just run a massive PvP event.
Deunan Tenephais
#823 - 2013-11-09 23:55:44 UTC
Shock Fist wrote:
Quite frankly, that's a "Them" problem, not a CCP or "Us" problem.

It's not about any "problem", he was posting that the plan was a failure, but with so little knowledge of nullsec there was simply no plan at all, at least coming from the players.
CCP's plan, on the other hand, was blatantly a failure.
Raneru
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#824 - 2013-11-09 23:57:50 UTC
Back in 2005 there was a nullsec event to stop serpentis stealing a titan. As a newb I went out there in an incursus with whatever crap was in my hanger thrown onto it to participate. First attempt, I was killed by a torp raven. Second attempt I got to it and fired a few shots off before being blown up and podded.

Bad time? I loved it! I found a nullsec corp to move to a few weeks later.

There will be scores of new players who will get into null as a result of this event. Not because it went successfully and they returned rich but because it was scary and challenging.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#825 - 2013-11-10 00:01:14 UTC
Raneru wrote:
Back in 2005 there was a nullsec event to stop serpentis stealing a titan. As a newb I went out there in an incursus with whatever crap was in my hanger thrown onto it to participate. First attempt, I was killed by a torp raven. Second attempt I got to it and fired a few shots off before being blown up and podded.

Bad time? I loved it! I found a nullsec corp to move to a few weeks later.

There will be scores of new players who will get into null as a result of this event. Not because it went successfully and they returned rich but because it was scary and challenging.


No, there won't. You know why there won't?
Because in 2005 you actually got to the event.
This time, the new players didn't get to the event, the event got declared finished before they even made it.
And half of them got killed in gate camps on the way that weren't exciting, were just instant death.

2005 null was entirely different environment to 2013 null sorry to say & the event was dramatically different as well.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#826 - 2013-11-10 00:17:47 UTC
I'm almost sorry I missed it. But then I've died in enough nullsec gate-camps to 100man blobs that I would probably not have experienced anything new. Did you know a nullsec defense fleet can get a gate camp up with bubbles and all in less than 10min? Even if it is just to catch two AFs they will get 20-50 people together and drop 20+ bubbles in 10min.

Hmmm You know maybe they're bored out of their skulls if they are *that* desperate. You think maybe CCP is afraid the nullseccers are getting bored and devised this to give them some action so they wouldn't leave the game because nullsec is too safe? Shocked

Hahahahha nah, that would reek of competence on CCP's part. Lol

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Delileah Acharyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#827 - 2013-11-10 01:21:11 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
Asbjrn wrote:
Trii Seo wrote:
Confirming Asbjrn is a very bad person.

That said, the announcement from CCP even said that it was likely to be dangerous and that there will be a retaliation.

Plus, we're not a third party. We were there for our serpentis bros. CFC + Serpentis = best friends forever <3

your not so bad yourself Blink


Compared to you sir, I'm a ******* saint!

That said, I think I can see where this will go - CCP will announce the incompetence of fleet commanders as purposeful. The empires are bad for you: they tried to gather your help for a last, desperate push against an enemy they couldn't break themselves. They failed, big time - underestimating the capability and will of nullsec entities to defend their territories. Overestimating their ability to organize attacks.

It's pointless to put artificial borders between "roleplay event" and actual history that happened. It wasn't a bunch of griefers ruining an event for their sick amusement. Sure, rear ends of many people met the boot at muzzle velocity that night but... likely many of those who administered the smacking were on the receiving end many, many times.

A lot of that wasn't fair either - bombed off the field because FC didn't pay attention, slam into a bubble and get pipebombed without a chance to fight back, it's how things go. You trust a commander to lead you to victory and safety and sometimes he fails. So don't scream at CCP about not making this a themepark ride but an uphill walk in snow. Look at it from the perspective of history that was made that day. Victory or loss don't matter - it's all about fun.

There won't be another day like this. Whatever side you were on, you participated in a unique event that won't repeat itself. You helped shape the lore of the world while playing the game. The only people who really lost weren't those who died or didn't make it to the staging system - they were those who quit or didn't attend.

Think how awesome the fact is that you supported the faction you liked against the odds, struggling to reach the target against incompetence of your leaders and lack of information. If CCP intended to get you all there in one piece, they'd have teleported people or spawned an NPC titan with infinite stront and fuel to bridge everyone easily. They chose not to.

(Also dear CCP can we get "I supported the Serpentis... AND THEN - BETRAYAL!" t-shirts? Or at least something to commemorate the outcome of the event.)


^ This

I thought the bold+italicised part when the event ended. Though my feelings were annoyance and frustration as a result of the tedious travelling through tidi with little to no information, it did very much feel like a perfect illustration of 'what not to do'.
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#828 - 2013-11-10 01:22:02 UTC
More EXE in this thread than on TeamSpeak. We claimed sov in a forum thread! Lol

Shock, anchor the iHub...Trii, spam local with Fishbutt. Lol



Care bears, It may come at the end of a sharp tongue, but notice that our advice is....play more Eve, get better at Eve, make friends to fly with, come back and give us a good fight. That is hardly negative feedback, even if delivered in bittervet voice-over.

We've given our 'elite PvP' secrets away, and there is nothing magical or even difficult in any of it---- organization, well designed fleet composition, fleet roles beyond just DPS spammer, voice comms, getting out and flying together as often as possible, learning from loss rather than obsessing about winning.


Myth busted
Many players believe the bar to entry in PvP is having 500 battleships and a pocket full of Titans,and end up avoiding it entirely. This event showed that anyone with a few good friends, decent fleet comps, good comms, and a solid FC, can absolutely tear the a$$ out of far bigger and more powerful fleets.

It should encourage people to PvP, not discourage them. Had a 1000 newbies been able to dominate just because of numbers, the myth of blobbing being the state of PvP would have been verified. Instead, all the blob in the world couldn't save the high sec fleets.
Take heart in that- PvP is not something out of reach of anyone but giant alliances. It's absolutely within the reach of even die hard care bears with more alts than friends.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#829 - 2013-11-10 01:51:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Alaric Faelen wrote:
Myth busted
Many players believe the bar to entry in PvP is having 500 battleships and a pocket full of Titans,and end up avoiding it entirely. This event showed that anyone with a few good friends, decent fleet comps, good comms, and a solid FC, can absolutely tear the a$$ out of far bigger and more powerful fleets.

It should encourage people to PvP, not discourage them. Had a 1000 newbies been able to dominate just because of numbers, the myth of blobbing being the state of PvP would have been verified. Instead, all the blob in the world couldn't save the high sec fleets.
Take heart in that- PvP is not something out of reach of anyone but giant alliances. It's absolutely within the reach of even die hard care bears with more alts than friends.


I think you've missed the point entirely and for that I can only apologise due the size of this thread but this isn't about "leet PvP skillz" or "Blob Wars" this was about being royally screwed over in RL time and effort by the sheer incompetence of CCP to organise a live event in that players actually got involved in the live event other than in TiDi.

If you had read some of the posts above this then you would know and this comes from a player with plenty of time IG and may seem bitter to you or sharp but it's not meant to.

I think your last insult confirms your attitude but you know what..."carebears" add content, they become half decent FC's, PvPers and bring other skills to Low\Null\WH's like "leet Industrialists" or perfect miners (you all need to make stuff and where does it come from) and when they take that leap they'll be taught how to operate in Null\WH's and Null Sec. All the Null Bloc did on 7-11 was shoot confused and misinformed people like fish in a barrel and not even that they were en-force. Please don't use this to showcase your "leet skillz" as it makes Null Bloc look pathetic and very bully-boy behaviour. I have respect for all types of play styles (well except gankers those scum lol) and neither should be belittled.

Points to bear in mind.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Cpt Tenguru37
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#830 - 2013-11-10 01:58:54 UTC
Asbjrn wrote:
Killerjock wrote:
Asbjrn wrote:
Can anyone from the pissed off point of view please post what they did expect to happen in nullsec ?
no bullshit just want to know


You're missing the point. In nullsec, we expected to die. To fight and die, actually, at a live event target system.

We expected also to actually get there. Of course, once you've jump-cloned, grabbed the cheap ship, flown to a freaking system, got into a fleet and waited half an hour... you're not going home. You know it's gonne be a big **** up but the evening is gone, you might as well have some fun. See the pretty sight before or while razor or whomever pods you.

What I personally did not expect was to travel 10 hisec systems to get to the real staging point, which was 2 systems out from where I started when flying to meves.
What I did not expect was not to have any information from CCP - I was in meves at 18.33 - never saw ONE line from CCP representative. Only people spreading rumors and an endless chat spam.



Anyone else?


Its not about dying its about what happened before we left highsec. After finding out via TWITTER 1300+ had to jump 23 jumps through 10% tidi to get to the real staging system. When we left half of that was still trying to get there. Getting our own FC's still wouldnt of helped cause they wouldn't have known where to go either.
I had no prob going null I like null, I made through all the gate camps it was fun. Its the way it was organised or lack of thats all. Getting blown up is part of eve its all about before we left highsec so idk what half you F1 monkeys keep saying its about losing ships when that isn't the issue, I'm sure 90% of players weren't expecting to come back in their ships.
The problem is why should everyone have twitter open to find the real staging area, if they gave us more time the other half would of made it to the staging system. We can't just titan bridge in like you guys.
Powers Sa
#831 - 2013-11-10 02:06:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Powers Sa
This thread is A+ numba 1, the best.
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Alaric Faelen wrote:
Myth busted
Many players believe the bar to entry in PvP is having 500 battleships and a pocket full of Titans,and end up avoiding it entirely. This event showed that anyone with a few good friends, decent fleet comps, good comms, and a solid FC, can absolutely tear the a$$ out of far bigger and more powerful fleets.

It should encourage people to PvP, not discourage them. Had a 1000 newbies been able to dominate just because of numbers, the myth of blobbing being the state of PvP would have been verified. Instead, all the blob in the world couldn't save the high sec fleets.
Take heart in that- PvP is not something out of reach of anyone but giant alliances. It's absolutely within the reach of even die hard care bears with more alts than friends.


I think you've missed the point entirely and for that I can only apologise due the size of this thread but this isn't about "leet PvP skillz" or "Blob Wars" this was about being royally screwed over in RL time and effort by the sheer incompetence of CCP to organise a live event in that players actually got involved in the live event other than in TiDi.

If you had read some of the posts above this then you would know and this comes from a player with plenty of time IG and may seem bitter to you or sharp but it's not meant to.

I think your last insult confirms your attitude but you know what..."carebears" add content, they become half decent FC's, PvPers and bring other skills to Low\Null\WH's like "leet Industrialists" or perfect miners (you all need to make stuff and where does it come from) and when they take that leap they'll be taught how to operate in Null\WH's and Null Sec. All the Null Bloc did on 7-11 was shoot confused and misinformed people like fish in a barrel and not even that they were en-force. Please don't use this to showcase your "leet skillz" as it makes Null Bloc look pathetic and very bully-boy behaviour. I have respect for all types of play styles (well except gankers those scum lol) and neither should be belittled.

Points to bear in mind.


Now you understand how nullsec players feel anytime there's a massive tidi battle and ccp kills the node and resets all progress, wasting almost 5-7 days of effort by all the players involved.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#832 - 2013-11-10 02:23:23 UTC
Powers Sa wrote:
Now you understand how nullsec players feel anytime there's a massive tidi battle and ccp kills the node and resets all progress, wasting almost 5-7 days of effort by all the players involved.


Now I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure that EVE is offline for 30 minutes everyday and the only "reset" that I would know of would be a deployment\database rollback one which I've never heard of CCP doing this far, not even after Incarna.

If you're talking about lead up and preparation time then I can understand your frustration but they have put more measures in place to try to circumvent that with providing a way to give advance notice to CCP for node reinforcement prior to the fight, TiDi, etc but technological limitations will still apply. I really feel for people who are just disconnected in a major engagement and that's my honest felling on it.

This wasn't about a lack of technology this was about a complete clusterf*ck in communication, organisation and screwing over thousands of players AKA customers as some other companies regard them who had given their time to add\be part for the content that they had advertised it would be.

You've not really added to this thread except to say like so many others "na na na na na" and if you have issues with CCP and the nodes then suggest something in F&I.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#833 - 2013-11-10 02:39:58 UTC
It actually happened during the accidental "Q9PP" thing. CCP accidentally remapped the Z9PP node due to a typo in the script, trapped capitals wound up free and the battle ended right there.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#834 - 2013-11-10 02:45:15 UTC
I have posted this as a template for others who feel as strongly as I do to contact their CSM representative either independently or with the below "template". I've added what I've sent for those that are time pushed but I urge anyone who feels strongly enough to contact their CSM.


CCP Live Event 07-11-13
From: Maximus Aerelius
Sent: 2013.11.10 02:34
To: **********,

Hi ******,

As a member of the CSM I feel that I should bring this thread and events to your attention as I, and I believe the rest of the player base, are unaware if CCP or the CSM are watching or in direct discussion about the events that took place on 07-11-13:

Probably the WORST event I've wasted my time on in my 10 years of eve

I'll admit it takes some reading (42 pages) but I think a lot of what people have said is valid within and I'd appreciate the CSM looking into the matter either as our elected body and independently or in conjunction with CCP. The only update we've had thus far form CCP is from CCP Goliath:

Quote:
Just dropping in to say thanks for giving us this feedback. We haven't had time to go through it all yet, but we will be doing so as a team and taking a lot of points on board to shape our work in the future. We will also be explaining some things to clear up some misunderstandings we have been noticing. Thanks for your time and patience.


Source: http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3846152#post3846152

I'd appreciate any response but if you are "gagged" then I'll understand however I do feel quite strongly that CCP need to say something or provide the community AKA customers a deadline for their response as the lack of communication from them since 2013.11.08 12:47 just seems to be fuelling the discontent and rumour mongering about what happened along with leading some to believe that we were just abused for either "Live CLB Testing" or the worst "CCP Office Party Entertainment".

Regards and best wishes as always,

Max.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#835 - 2013-11-10 02:49:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Trii Seo wrote:
It actually happened during the accidental "Q9PP" thing. CCP accidentally remapped the Z9PP node due to a typo in the script, trapped capitals wound up free and the battle ended right there.


Wow! Thank you for that info and not flaming me for my lack of knowledge of everything Smile. I remember a guy tripping the wrong switch and turning it all off quite a number of years back now...hence the "A Big Red Button" as a gift that some got I believe.

I can only sympathise with people in that situation as that would really suck...and I'd be raging. Just out of curiosity I'm guessing that a reason and apology was forthcoming from CCP?

EDIT:

Would it be this threadnaught of rage?

The apology came 20 minutes after the thread was opened and is on Page 3 @2013.07.04 23:06:

CCP Phantom wrote:
In the attempt to improve the overall fight quality and node stability in the Z9PP system at 22:41 UTC by moving away all non-critical services from this node, our engineers unfortuntely made a mistake and actually moved the critical system from the current server node instead of moving all other systems. As result every pilot in this system lost connection to the node and therefore to Tranquility.

The system Z9PP is online and accessible again now.

It is extremely unfortunate to make such a mistake and we apologize deeply for disrupting one of the truly epic battles in the history of EVE; especially since this battle already raged on for several hours and was still heating up for more! We are very sorry about this incident and will make sure that such mistakes won't happen again.


Maybe there is some truth in the tinfoil hattery that CCP are just Null Bloc in black shirts after all or maybe they are considering their response.

EDIT 2:

And even apologies on Twitter less than 1.5 hours after this event.

I should've stopped looking into this incident before I saw that but I do not like the look of how CCP are treating this incident in comparison and fully expect IA to be involved.

EDIT 3:

@2013.07.04 23:31 40 minutes after his initial apology and CCP Phantom again apologises on Page 16:

CCP Phantom wrote:
We are painfully aware of this and believe me: it hurts to see such epic battles, which are not found anywhere else in the whole gaming industry, being cut off like this.

We want to give you the servers, tools and environment to create and enjoy such epic moments to its fullest extend, that is what our dream and passion is about - destroying such battles just to influence the course of the in-game actions, however, is not what we do.


EDIT 4:

@2013.07.04 23:44 Another update from CCP Phantom

@Posted: 2013.07.05 00:40 CCP Falcon closes the thread and redirects to official apology thread.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#836 - 2013-11-10 03:03:17 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
I have posted this as a template for others who feel as strongly as I do to contact their CSM representative either independently or with the below "template". I've added what I've sent for those that are time pushed but I urge anyone who feels strongly enough to contact their CSM.


CCP Live Event 07-11-13
From: Maximus Aerelius
Sent: 2013.11.10 02:34
To: **********,

Hi ******,

As a member of the CSM I feel that I should bring this thread and events to your attention as I, and I believe the rest of the player base, are unaware if CCP or the CSM are watching or in direct discussion about the events that took place on 07-11-13:

Probably the WORST event I've wasted my time on in my 10 years of eve

I'll admit it takes some reading (42 pages) but I think a lot of what people have said is valid within and I'd appreciate the CSM looking into the matter either as our elected body and independently or in conjunction with CCP. The only update we've had thus far form CCP is from CCP Goliath:

Quote:
Just dropping in to say thanks for giving us this feedback. We haven't had time to go through it all yet, but we will be doing so as a team and taking a lot of points on board to shape our work in the future. We will also be explaining some things to clear up some misunderstandings we have been noticing. Thanks for your time and patience.


Source: http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3846152#post3846152

I'd appreciate any response but if you are "gagged" then I'll understand however I do feel quite strongly that CCP need to say something or provide the community AKA customers a deadline for their response as the lack of communication from them since 2013.11.08 12:47 just seems to be fuelling the discontent and rumour mongering about what happened along with leading some to believe that we were just abused for either "Live CLB Testing" or the worst "CCP Office Party Entertainment".

Regards and best wishes as always,

Max.


Actually. one of the CSM members, in Jester's Trek blog, details reasonably well what happened, and there are a LOT of posts to that blog. Of course, we have other CSM members, who represent the null sec cartels, who are absolutely giddy over what happened.

So the CSM and CCP are both aware what happened.

Some may care.
Most don't.
Some are actively trying to permanently convert all of high sec into the mayhem that occurred.

Only way to stop the insanity is to stop paying CCP.
I have been down to one active account for over a year, and am seriously considering stopping even this one (and the null sec cartel propaganda teams rejoice).

I urge everyone who can, stop one paying for one of your accounts for one month, and let CCP know specifically why you have.
Tilly Delnero
Doomheim
#837 - 2013-11-10 03:07:46 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I urge everyone who can, stop one paying for one of your accounts for one month, and let CCP know specifically why you have.

You have my sword.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#838 - 2013-11-10 03:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
So to summarise on my previous point of the incident relating to Z9PP and drawing comparisons to this incident:

Incident regarding Z9PP:

@2013.07.04 22:45 Rage thread opened
@2013.07.04 23:06 initial apology
less than 1.5 hours after this event a Tweet apology
@2013.07.04 23:31 40 minutes after his initial apology and CCP Phantom again apologises
@2013.07.04 23:44 Another from CCP Phantom
@Posted: 2013.07.05 00:40 CCP Falcon closes the thread and redirects to official apology thread.

So in comparison we have heard nothing apart from a "Yeah, we might look into this, thanks for your feedback" from CCP but when they do the same thing to Null Sec you get the above timeline? That thread was 32 pages long before it was locked and the official apology and explanation posted in less than 2 hours from it being opened.

How they managed the fallout from Z9PP was so much better than this and I cannot describe how badly this "LIVE Event" and aftermath has been handled. This is now over 54 hours and on-going and what have we heard?

There's something fishy about the 7th of the month it seems.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#839 - 2013-11-10 03:29:00 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
So to summarise on my previous point of the incident relating to Z9PP and drawing comparisons to this incident:

Incident regarding Z9PP:

@2013.07.04 22:45 Rage thread opened
@2013.07.04 23:06 initial apology
less than 1.5 hours after this event a Tweet apology
@2013.07.04 23:31 40 minutes after his initial apology and CCP Phantom again apologises
@2013.07.04 23:44 Another from CCP Phantom
@Posted: 2013.07.05 00:40 CCP Falcon closes the thread and redirects to official apology thread.

So in comparison we have heard nothing apart from a "Yeah, we might look into this, thanks for your feedback" from CCP but when they do the same thing to Null Sec you get the above timeline? That thread was 32 pages long before it was locked and the official apology and explanation posted in less than 2 hours from it being opened.

How they managed the fallout from Z9PP was so much better than this and I cannot describe how badly this "LIVE Event" and aftermath has been handled. This is now over 54 hours and on-going and what have we heard?

There's something fishy about the 7th of the month it seems.


This is also part and parcel with the fact that high sec is not organized enough to field a strong CSM contingent, to make our voices heard. We have one extremely weak high sec rep (supposedly high sec), and that's it.

If high sec actually filled the CSM with the proportion of high sec players that exist in the game, plus actually had ANY CCP dev's / employees that came from high sec, the response from CCP would be vastly different.
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#840 - 2013-11-10 03:33:40 UTC
Quote:
I think you've missed the point entirely and for that I can only apologize due the size of this thread but this isn't about "leet PvP skillz" or "Blob Wars" this was about being royally screwed over in RL time and effort by the sheer incompetence of CCP to organise a live event in that players actually got involved in the live event other than in TiDi.


--no one is debating that point. TiDi is somewhat unavoidable given such large fleets, but was made much worse by having a long route to travel. They obviously reinforced the target systems, as there was almost no TiDi at all even with massive furballs going on. But being impractical to do that all along the routes, should have planned for much shorter travel.
I understand your frustration with that. and I'm sure CCP has taken note. Move on.

Quote:
I think your last insult confirms your attitude but you know what..."carebears" add content, they become half decent FC's, PvPers and bring other skills


--Not an insult, just a snarky way of making what is a positive point....that the myth that to PvP requires either billion isk ships or huge blobs is demonstrably false. The most common excuses given as to why people don't PvP is that it's out of reach for anyone not in a huge alliance, or that it's all just about blobs- and neither is remotely true.
What I am saying is- care bears are not forever removed from meaningful PvP, it's actually not that hard to make a good showing by just playing with a few people and playing well.

Also, if you FC, PvP, and bring other skills, as you say, then you are, by definition, NOT a care bear. Manufacturing is not creating content, it is creating stuff for PvP'ers and a few brave high sec'ers to create content with. Do not confuse the two.

Quote:
Please don't use this to showcase your "leet skillz" as it makes Null Bloc look pathetic and very bully-boy behaviour.


--Now I know you didn't actually read my post.

Did you not notice the same quotation marks to denote sarcasm that you yourself just friggin used? Seriously? Literally used quotes to mock something I just used quotes to mock.