Player Features and Ideas Discussion

hmm, sisi showed 82km. I might have had one falloff implant not sure. I don't have cybernetics 5 though, just 4 so it wouldn't have been the top of the line one. I expect all mission runners have implants or at least mission runner clones with decent implants?

Is that 78.6km falloff or total range (falloff+optimal?) Will a single implant make up the difference?

Or perhaps, just maybe, price wars are driving down costs?

TBH I wouldn't even care about the falloff bonus if we got the speed back. Isn't that sad?

Please dont get the wrong idea here, I think we are both on similar sides of this argument.
Devs said they wanted hulls that dont outdmg the pirates, but get better projection instead... But the vargur doesnt get a projection benefit that would compensate for it being stationary an entire min. (but hey the kronos gets amazing range with null and the paladin get awesome range with scorch, so the vargur must be okay right, lawl)

At any rate, i tried to quit this thread, but i think i may just have to settle for limiting my activity. That being said, i wont do the actual numbers compare when a MJD becomes > MWD, but I would imaging that number would be higher than 60KM as at 50KM the MWD obviously wins, but the MJD essentially requires 2 aligns, 1 for the jump and a 180 turn after you jump. Regardless of comparing prop, I think throughout the thread the argument for a vargur buff of some sort has been made very clear.

Also just some other stuff about terrible vargur prop:

A) we should avoid bastion when possible as it doesn't offer projection that comes anywhere close to compensating for the lack of mobility

B) If you need a MJD, go dual prop

C) to go dual prop, you either need to lower projection by replacing a TC, or free a tanking slot via bastion, at which point see Point A.

The ship is worse off than it was in TQ... the gap between the vargur and the mach increased with the new looting structure. Unfortunately, i do not anticipate a change and do not anticipate another dev response before Nov 19, I will just hope the nerf to the mach is gracious.... Gallente BS V added to skill queue. RIP vargur (11/19/13)

Can they refit subsystems? Can they do over 1k dps? Can they loot 800m3 worth of loot adn salvage? Can they salvage on the go?

If not then how do T3s obsolete marauders?

Also their tanks are notoriously expensive. The marauder can get away with a 2-3 module T2 tank.

No. When mission is worth salvaging then even if I use a Marauder I still salvage with Noctis. Thus I tend to skip this part any time.


Apart from those I already presented? Longer, for every mission I could try on both servers and remembered times. With exception of AE which I badly screwed on SiSi and thus time was more or less the same.


Yes, with Bastion and MJD. Ships more or less the same with only major difference being that on TQ I use almost exclusively railguns (some time ago I tested blasters+MWD and results were similar but a bit worse) while on SiSi I tested mostly with blasters.


I'd say that it depends on personal flying style and preferences. Like I mentioned, when I salvage, I salvage with Noctis. Not only because of its bonuses but also because during normal mission I prefer to focus on finishing it and then to focus on salvaging - each activity brings enough own clickfest which I don't have desire to mix.

To explain one thing. I compared SiSi Kronos to TQ Machariel because Mach is my best performing missioning ship so far and thus serves me as a reference point to evaluate other ships. And because I count only bounties, this comparison is less apples-to-oranges than it might look at the first sight.


Yes, I am aware whom have you asked it. :) Anyway I'd be happy if one day someone returned the favor. I've been to couple similar discussions and while everyone is eager to ask for performance metrics, nobody seem willing to share their own.

CCP have stated they will fall between T1 and T2 so a big nerf is inevitable.

I'd love to see that quote.


POS, Orca - anything that acts as a fitting station apparently (at least according to CCP).

Would you mind a bit more number juggling?

Assume TQ Vargur goes 1200m/s and on SiSi goes 1000m/s (with the same fit on TQ is actually a bit slower and on SiSi is a bit faster but numbers go nicer this way).

In such situation in 45 seconds TQ Vargur covers 54km. Reverting the speed equation we get that to cover the same distance the SiSi Vargur needs 54 seconds. So let's be clear, the new Vargur wil be in the same place 9 seconds later. During whole that 54 seconds let your DPS be even 10% lower (okay, that's ridiculous but let it stay, I'm making another point here). Now do you want to argue that you need to chase every sinle rat right from the start? Or that you run MWD during whole the mission? Or that all rats are nicely aligned in a single line so the distance difference accumulates beyond all tolerable levels?


Maybe instead try running some missions in different configurations and trying different styles?


Bastion's main role is tank, not projection. For projection there is MJD here.


True. Even if using MJD don't leave home without MWD or at least AB. This goes from experience, not from theory.


With all respect, aren't you associated with Incursions community? I heard they are quite fond of drama...

Seriously though, my tests, I still consider them preliminary, suggest that Vargur's performance isn't significantly worse than on TQ and on TQ it was very close to Machariel. What more did you want?

FYI https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=292816&find=unread