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Dev Blog: No Honor Among Thieves - Siphon Units in Rubicon

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Athena Maldoran
Doomheim
#1461 - 2013-11-04 18:19:24 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Athena Maldoran wrote:
Lol The idea behind the siphon is generally theoretically good idea, but in practise this module will not function as intended. CCP knows people hate the current gameplay in aquiering moongoo. Now they implement an module that makes it possible to greif people already doing a gameplay they dont like. This will end up with only hurting the smaller entities that does moonmining, and **** off the larger entites that does moon mining. In other words, ccp is making gamebreaking gameplay emerge, instead of fixing their legazy issues and giving the players what they want.

Nope.


You sir, with that short answer, shows the rest of us what kind of a blatant idiot you are.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1462 - 2013-11-04 22:08:42 UTC
Athena Maldoran wrote:
Lol The idea behind the siphon is generally theoretically good idea, but in practise this module will not function as intended. CCP knows people hate the current gameplay in aquiering moongoo. Now they implement an module that makes it possible to greif people already doing a gameplay they dont like. This will end up with only hurting the smaller entities that does moonmining, and **** off the larger entites that does moon mining. In other words, ccp is making gamebreaking gameplay emerge, instead of fixing their legazy issues and giving the players what they want.

Goon alt or minion playing the philanthropic card? You guys care so much about the little guy, so sweet.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1463 - 2013-11-04 22:35:27 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Athena Maldoran wrote:
Lol The idea behind the siphon is generally theoretically good idea, but in practise this module will not function as intended. CCP knows people hate the current gameplay in aquiering moongoo. Now they implement an module that makes it possible to greif people already doing a gameplay they dont like. This will end up with only hurting the smaller entities that does moonmining, and **** off the larger entites that does moon mining. In other words, ccp is making gamebreaking gameplay emerge, instead of fixing their legazy issues and giving the players what they want.

Goon alt or minion playing the philanthropic card? You guys care so much about the little guy, so sweet.

everyone's a goon alt who disagrees with you right? those hundreds of small corps moon mining in low sec are all goon alts too arent they? or maybe we are all goon alts? oh the possibilities....
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1464 - 2013-11-04 23:06:41 UTC
Omega Flames wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Athena Maldoran wrote:
Lol The idea behind the siphon is generally theoretically good idea, but in practise this module will not function as intended. CCP knows people hate the current gameplay in aquiering moongoo. Now they implement an module that makes it possible to greif people already doing a gameplay they dont like. This will end up with only hurting the smaller entities that does moonmining, and **** off the larger entites that does moon mining. In other words, ccp is making gamebreaking gameplay emerge, instead of fixing their legazy issues and giving the players what they want.

Goon alt or minion playing the philanthropic card? You guys care so much about the little guy, so sweet.

everyone's a goon alt who disagrees with you right? those hundreds of small corps moon mining in low sec are all goon alts too arent they? or maybe we are all goon alts? oh the possibilities....

Yes

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Celia Therone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1465 - 2013-11-05 09:40:18 UTC
How about making it so that the siphon had to be hacked (via the hacking mini-game) in order to switch off its POS gun cloaking ability and be vulnerable to POS guns, which would then shoot it automatically or manually? This would make it significantly harder to bot your defenses. It'd also make a bit more sense than POS guns can't hit it unless they're manned by a person.

I'd probably let people hack it from inside the POS shield because it's now an even worse chore for the POS defender. However allies of the POS defender who want to disable the siphon could potentially do it in a hacking ship if they didn't have a combat ship handy (and the POS had online guns of course.)

Also how about having the siphon drop a wreck that can be looted/salvaged for ~20% of it's build value on death? This would mean that POS's that weren't very profitable, which suffer asymmetrically from being siphoned, could potentially recover some of their losses.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1466 - 2013-11-05 10:10:15 UTC
Celia Therone wrote:
How about making it so that the siphon had to be hacked (via the hacking mini-game) in order to switch off its POS gun cloaking ability and be vulnerable to POS guns, which would then shoot it automatically or manually? This would make it significantly harder to bot your defenses. It'd also make a bit more sense than POS guns can't hit it unless they're manned by a person.

I'd probably let people hack it from inside the POS shield because it's now an even worse chore for the POS defender. However allies of the POS defender who want to disable the siphon could potentially do it in a hacking ship if they didn't have a combat ship handy (and the POS had online guns of course.)

Also how about having the siphon drop a wreck that can be looted/salvaged for ~20% of it's build value on death? This would mean that POS's that weren't very profitable, which suffer asymmetrically from being siphoned, could potentially recover some of their losses.


I think they should have ignored the whiny cries of the rich mega alliances and done what they said, try it out and adjust if necessary. This pre-nerf crap is getting old

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Athena Maldoran
Doomheim
#1467 - 2013-11-05 11:45:43 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Omega Flames wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Athena Maldoran wrote:
Lol The idea behind the siphon is generally theoretically good idea, but in practise this module will not function as intended. CCP knows people hate the current gameplay in aquiering moongoo. Now they implement an module that makes it possible to greif people already doing a gameplay they dont like. This will end up with only hurting the smaller entities that does moonmining, and **** off the larger entites that does moon mining. In other words, ccp is making gamebreaking gameplay emerge, instead of fixing their legazy issues and giving the players what they want.

Goon alt or minion playing the philanthropic card? You guys care so much about the little guy, so sweet.

everyone's a goon alt who disagrees with you right? those hundreds of small corps moon mining in low sec are all goon alts too arent they? or maybe we are all goon alts? oh the possibilities....

Yes


I guess we smoked out a Marlona Sky alt here Lol
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1468 - 2013-11-05 12:16:28 UTC
I'm curious as to what has been done to the API in the lead up to Rubicon..
Checking my reaction pos's I find,
Sylramic Fibers -4,153.85 p/h (at the same time, the input of ceramic powder for this reaction is increasing by 253.65 p/h)
Yet the pos producing Ceramic Powder -183.33 p/h
Both Pos's have the correct amount in silos (no syphon's here yet LOL) But all my pos's are now giving incorrect API readings.


Is this what we can expect from now on?


My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1469 - 2013-11-05 12:52:33 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
I'm curious as to what has been done to the API in the lead up to Rubicon..
Checking my reaction pos's I find,
Sylramic Fibers -4,153.85 p/h (at the same time, the input of ceramic powder for this reaction is increasing by 253.65 p/h)
Yet the pos producing Ceramic Powder -183.33 p/h
Both Pos's have the correct amount in silos (no syphon's here yet LOL) But all my pos's are now giving incorrect API readings.


Is this what we can expect from now on?



you sure your numbers are correct? mine are not showing any incorrect deviations for my pos's.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1470 - 2013-11-06 00:24:29 UTC
Omega Flames wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
I'm curious as to what has been done to the API in the lead up to Rubicon..
Checking my reaction pos's I find,
Sylramic Fibers -4,153.85 p/h (at the same time, the input of ceramic powder for this reaction is increasing by 253.65 p/h)
Yet the pos producing Ceramic Powder -183.33 p/h
Both Pos's have the correct amount in silos (no syphon's here yet LOL) But all my pos's are now giving incorrect API readings.


Is this what we can expect from now on?



you sure your numbers are correct? mine are not showing any incorrect deviations for my pos's.
I just checked again (10 hrs later),
Sylramic Fibers -461.54p/h
Ceramic Powder -15.38p/h
This one I especially like, Unrefined Platinum Technite -2.38p/h

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1471 - 2013-11-06 12:57:14 UTC
could the change in daylight savings time have any affect on your formulas? (assuming your using time in any of your formulas) What are the actual quantities being reported in your api pull?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1472 - 2013-11-06 13:24:14 UTC
Omega Flames wrote:
could the change in daylight savings time have any affect on your formulas? (assuming your using time in any of your formulas) What are the actual quantities being reported in your api pull?
It is information straight from the api via eve reactor. It is now showing correct numbers so whether there was a problem with the API server for the period or whether it was CCP testing the new API manipulation due to commence later this month will probably remain unknown.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1473 - 2013-11-06 13:37:15 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Omega Flames wrote:
could the change in daylight savings time have any affect on your formulas? (assuming your using time in any of your formulas) What are the actual quantities being reported in your api pull?
It is information straight from the api via eve reactor. It is now showing correct numbers so whether there was a problem with the API server for the period or whether it was CCP testing the new API manipulation due to commence later this month will probably remain unknown.


I'm going to have to go with either you or eve reactor screwed up and not ccp. First off ccp api doesn't do units/hour it just lists quantities, location, itemid, etc and second mine showed correct data for all my silos.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1474 - 2013-11-07 10:08:27 UTC
Omega Flames wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Omega Flames wrote:
could the change in daylight savings time have any affect on your formulas? (assuming your using time in any of your formulas) What are the actual quantities being reported in your api pull?
It is information straight from the api via eve reactor. It is now showing correct numbers so whether there was a problem with the API server for the period or whether it was CCP testing the new API manipulation due to commence later this month will probably remain unknown.


I'm going to have to go with either you or eve reactor screwed up and not ccp. First off ccp api doesn't do units/hour it just lists quantities, location, itemid, etc and second mine showed correct data for all my silos.
I don't know which program your running the API through and maybe the one I am using is smarter than the one you use. When I open the program, it updates with latest API data (refreshes every 6 hrs). I get silo reports in/out amounts, product names, quantities remaining, fuel levels, stront levels.

As the information is pulled directly from the CCP API server the only way eve reactor can screw up is if the API itself screws up.

Considering the API is to be manipulated after the update would it not also be possible and feasible for it to be done in a random way? If the API is altered the same way for every silo it makes manipulating it somewhat pointless as in a short time someone with the expertise could/would create a way to override it. If the manipulation is kept random it makes it that much more difficult to detect.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1475 - 2013-11-07 13:56:35 UTC
Your post is so full of fail that it's a wonder how you are capable of managing a pos to begin with.

1. I learned how to read the asset api directly and using a spreadsheet wrote my own formulas for interpreting the data so I know exactly what is shown by the api and "units/hour" nor "in/out amounts" are in the api (in fact product names arent shown by the api either but rather type id's which correspond to a specific type of item). those numbers are from your program interpreting the api data and making logical mathematical conclusions.

2. since we've now established that "units/hour" nor "in/out amounts" are in fact not pulled directly from the api then eve reactor can and infact either your or it did screw up when you or it interpreted the data from the api. Either you or your program screwed up those logical mathematical conclusions, not ccp

3. learn...anything...about computers and program code and you'd know that adding a random element to something like the api is not only stupid but pointless.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1476 - 2013-11-08 05:46:11 UTC
Omega Flames wrote:
Your post is so full of fail that it's a wonder how you are capable of managing a pos to begin with.


3. learn...anything...about computers and program code and you'd know that adding a random element to something like the api is not only stupid but pointless.

Interesting.. If it is in fact pointless, why is CCP planning on doing it? I mean yes you could say CCP is stupid; oh hang on you did. Could you explain why it is not only stupid but pointless? CCP API team might learn something from you.

I agree eve reactor is interpreting data and showing relevant data (as any good program does) but as all data used by the program is pulled from the API and up until recently the figures shown were correct. It might just be that something CCP is doing to the API is causing the odd readings??

If the information used by eve reactor (and other programs like it) is not correct then why is CCP bothering to manipulate the API once syphon's are released into the game?

Honestly I don't think you established anything, except your inability to see past your own nose, that your right and no-one else can be.

**As a matter of interest, what program do you use to read the asset api directly?

Quote:
CCP Tuxford
Yes we did. We do track how much is siphoned from what and where it would end up and the API then reports those numbers. It's a bit evil abusing the API in this way but I think it's for the good of the feature.
Hmm, seems the api does in fact track numbers in and out of a silo..

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Verdis deMosays
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1477 - 2013-11-08 19:38:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Verdis deMosays
As a member of a small null alliance I love these changes. The siphons are an interesting idea and will be something I deploy on a regular basis with my Prowler. I think this will make for a lot more productive time gate camping too, since cloaky haulers will be in and out of null on a more regular basis to check on their little autonomous thieves.

Also the Goon response has been priceless. Here's my reaction to it.
http://www.ghostofthefuture.com/images/Ani2/UnfathomableSadness.gif
Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1478 - 2013-11-09 08:19:18 UTC
Verdis deMosays wrote:
As a member of a small null alliance I love these changes. The siphons are an interesting idea and will be something I deploy on a regular basis with my Prowler. I think this will make for a lot more productive time gate camping too, since cloaky haulers will be in and out of null on a more regular basis to check on their little autonomous thieves.

Also the Goon response has been priceless. Here's my reaction to it.
http://www.ghostofthefuture.com/images/Ani2/UnfathomableSadness.gif


Seeing as goons message has consistently been "this is OP we will abuse it till it is nerfed and it will be the little guys that get screwed" I think you will find that goons = Cartman in that image.

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
Verdis deMosays
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1479 - 2013-11-09 20:02:18 UTC
Miner Hottie wrote:
Verdis deMosays wrote:
As a member of a small null alliance I love these changes. The siphons are an interesting idea and will be something I deploy on a regular basis with my Prowler. I think this will make for a lot more productive time gate camping too, since cloaky haulers will be in and out of null on a more regular basis to check on their little autonomous thieves.

Also the Goon response has been priceless. Here's my reaction to it.
http://www.ghostofthefuture.com/images/Ani2/UnfathomableSadness.gif


Seeing as goons message has consistently been "this is OP we will abuse it till it is nerfed and it will be the little guys that get screwed" I think you will find that goons = Cartman in that image.


Assuming you trust the opinion of the goonswarm, who have consistently shown themselves as an exploitive economic coalition. Honestly, if they are raising hell about how OP and unfair this is its a good sign to me that the existence of this item really worries them. The 74 pages of goon tears are pretty much proof of that. Assuming that CCP doesn't cave to the cries of the goons who control the majority of the moons worth anything I think the siphon will be a nice piratical way to break their hold on the T2 market. And before any goons or alts thereof start debating me on that, I'll just remind people of Hulkageddon and that time of GoonFun.
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1480 - 2013-11-09 22:11:17 UTC
Verdis deMosays wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:
Verdis deMosays wrote:
As a member of a small null alliance I love these changes. The siphons are an interesting idea and will be something I deploy on a regular basis with my Prowler. I think this will make for a lot more productive time gate camping too, since cloaky haulers will be in and out of null on a more regular basis to check on their little autonomous thieves.

Also the Goon response has been priceless. Here's my reaction to it.
http://www.ghostofthefuture.com/images/Ani2/UnfathomableSadness.gif


Seeing as goons message has consistently been "this is OP we will abuse it till it is nerfed and it will be the little guys that get screwed" I think you will find that goons = Cartman in that image.


Assuming you trust the opinion of the goonswarm, who have consistently shown themselves as an exploitive economic coalition. Honestly, if they are raising hell about how OP and unfair this is its a good sign to me that the existence of this item really worries them. The 74 pages of goon tears are pretty much proof of that. Assuming that CCP doesn't cave to the cries of the goons who control the majority of the moons worth anything I think the siphon will be a nice piratical way to break their hold on the T2 market. And before any goons or alts thereof start debating me on that, I'll just remind people of Hulkageddon and that time of GoonFun.

Do we exploit economic opportunities? YES

Is this thing OP and unfair? YES

Are we worried about Syphons? NO

Have we been crying bitter tears over this? HELL ******* NO! We are laughing our buts off over how these will screw the little guy over a barrel.

If anything these things will tighten our grip on the T2 market. The money is still going to the ones with the most and best moons ( us ), the largest stockpiles of moon goo ( still us ), and the largest manpower pool to implement the greatist griefing campaign in history ( oh hey us again Big smile ). You seem to confuse our tears of mirth, with those of rage.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka