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Ship Crews: The Revenge

Author
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#1 - 2011-11-16 19:07:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
A Long Time Ago on a Message Board now locked far far away...


Once upon a time I op'ed the original ship crew addition thread. It's been highlighted in the commonly proposed ideas, and had come up off and on again since, oh, beta.

Unfortunately my original idea went on to be used in something called Star Trek Online and neither I nor CCP got any credit for that. Bummer.

Anyway, I had several people mail me asking me to open a thread on the new forum for this subject. I'm really not going to rehash many of the ideas that have already come and gone, but rather throw the doors wide for new ideas on how this mechanic might function in game.

So, all you people into in game immersion, lets hear it from the streets.

(end opening scroll).
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#2 - 2011-11-16 19:10:54 UTC
Simple, it should just give you a purchaseable bonus for your ship. Like 1% to 5% for systems management.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#3 - 2011-11-16 19:14:53 UTC
Morgan North wrote:
Simple, it should just give you a purchaseable bonus for your ship. Like 1% to 5% for systems management.



We already have plenty of things that do that though. This should provide greater immersion.

My old idea was that they worked rather like pets. They had their own skills that improved over time and gave a gradually increasing bonus depending on how long that crew had been in that ship, with different officers being able to be added to tweak them.
Zirse
Risktech Analytics
#4 - 2011-11-16 19:58:24 UTC
Simple.

Morgan North wrote:
Simple, it should just give you a purchaseable bonus for your ship. Like 1% to 5% for systems management.


They should start at e.g: 1% and gradually increase to e.g: 5% as they participate on killmails. Destroyed and not recoverable on ship loss. Transferable but lose any additional bonus gained when transferring ship types.
Pelador Rova
No Luck Corp
Kenshin Shogunate.
#5 - 2011-11-16 20:26:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Pelador Rova
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:

Unfortunately my original idea went on to be used in something called Star Trek Online and neither I nor CCP got any credit for that. Bummer.


Presumably as it was more fitting to thr game style of STO so it had some relevance. Being disgruntled about CCP making a rational issue about what they develop and how they invest their time based on valued return is what makes buisnesses work. So if they didn't pick up the idea, I don't see why you should feel agrudged other than personal ego? Which seems what this comment and the title of the post is about, very encouraging and constructive.

Also if you intend to collect ideas from others and simply adopt them lazily into your own then it really isnt much of a "revenge" is it?

And considering you beat down the first suggestion with how you view things should work straight away, rather than an open forum as you indicated why don't you just propose how you view it to work rather than wasting everyone's time?
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-11-16 20:50:13 UTC
Quote:
In fact, in the lore, the capsuler is not the only one inside the ship, the crew is there for maintenance duties, and how do they get there? When you assemble the ship they are recruited from the Stations / SMA / Outposts / Capital ship population. But as you are an Allmight demigod capsuler you just don't care about them, and your ship can go well without maintenance, so you can launch a ship into space with 1% of the crew and it still will work for a good fine... but offcoures if you enter an other station your ship will automatically recruit what more is needed for you...

The same is said about the Outposts / POS / Custom-Ofices / Comand center population they are there (Inside the modules and pices) they are counted as part of the volume...

So if start taking hull damage you also loses part of your crew, and when you overheat a module you will possible kill some too...

And when you kill a pirate batleship... Thousands of deaths!!! when you kill a floating structure just to see what will drop, thousands of deaths, that is what a capsuler is.... A immortal Demigod of Death...

Also all the main functions of the ship are on the capsule's will, the crew is not an efficiency factor ...

So i don't think that the population of the planets will be a main concern since you can say that they are all inside the ship along the 1000m³ of the command center, and the rest is just clonned or fly from your ship or from somewhere to the planet when you enter the planetary view... most of the hard work are for the drones and nanites...
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#7 - 2011-11-16 23:01:18 UTC
I would suggest placing a slot on all of the ships, much like a cargo/drone/fuel bay, but call it "Crew Quarters," and allow for specialized crew members (commodity items) to be placed in said bay, each giving a certain bonus type to one of the systems. Of course, the ship destruction would result in the death of the crew (or could result in them being dropped in an escape pod to be scooped by the ganker). But to level the playing field, so experienced crews wouldn't be a money-based thing, crew get better at their job (thus increasing bonuses) as the ship survives longer (based on flight time with each ship). If the crew is scooped by a ganker, they would be reset to base levels (as they'd be unfamiliar with the ins and outs of the new ship, and its individual quirks).

Also, if crew are sold, traded, etc, their stats would be reset to base levels. Ejecting prior to the ship being destroyed would save the crew, as they would eject in an escape pod which would be scoopable.

Each ship would only have a specific crew size for that class of ship, or specific hull type. And when docked, for those who enjoy CQ, they could interact with their NPC crew in the hangar. Another thing that would increase immersion would be an actual personal/Corp Hangar that pilots could walk around, being able to interact with their crew, or Corp mates who had access. A Corp Office/War Room wouldn't be too bad of an idea either. Allowing for people to plan battles while sitting around smoking and joking (in game). Thus allowing for emoting (smokers smoke, drinkers drink, angered individuals slam their fist on the table), stuff like that. Just a few ideas.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#8 - 2011-11-17 02:57:14 UTC
Pelador Rova wrote:

Presumably as it was more fitting to thr game style of STO so it had some relevance. Being disgruntled about CCP making a rational issue about what they develop and how they invest their time based on valued return is what makes buisnesses work. So if they didn't pick up the idea, I don't see why you should feel agrudged other than personal ego? Which seems what this comment and the title of the post is about, very encouraging and constructive.

Also if you intend to collect ideas from others and simply adopt them lazily into your own then it really isnt much of a "revenge" is it?

And considering you beat down the first suggestion with how you view things should work straight away, rather than an open forum as you indicated why don't you just propose how you view it to work rather than wasting everyone's time?


I almost just ignored this post as obvious trolling, but despite the fact that it's clearly trying to bait me, he does have a few points.

1) I really don't care that CCP did or did not use my idea. (Though I am a bit miffed at STO for not giving me any credit for a system that I had signed over to CCP, these things happen.)

2) The original thread had become a brainstorming session about how this could be implemented with the new system. My intent was to continue this idea on the new forum. I was asked to by several players, as, unlike many of old commonly proposed idea thread ops, I'm still around.

3) I did not beat it down, I just pointed out that there are lots of purchasable bonuses out there, and they do little for immersion, and it would make little sense, as a crew is a living, breathing thing.

Jack has a good idea, particularly with the integration with CQ, which did not yet exist when I penned the original proposal.
Pelador Rova
No Luck Corp
Kenshin Shogunate.
#9 - 2011-11-17 03:31:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Pelador Rova
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Pelador Rova wrote:

And considering you beat down the first suggestion with how you view things should work straight away, rather than an open forum as you indicated why don't you just propose how you view it to work rather than wasting everyone's time?


I almost just ignored this post as obvious trolling, but despite the fact that it's clearly trying to bait me, he does have a few points.

3) I did not beat it down, I just pointed out that there are lots of purchasable bonuses out there, and they do little for immersion, and it would make little sense, as a crew is a living, breathing thing.


Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
I'm really not going to rehash many of the ideas that have already come and gone, but rather throw the doors wide for new ideas on how this mechanic might function in game.


"1st Persons idea"

Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
We already have plenty of things that do that though. This should provide greater immersion.
My old idea was that they ...... blah blah


If that isn't smacking the door in someone's face about their idea's in preference of your own, well?
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#10 - 2011-11-17 04:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
I support ship crews as more of a type of eye candy on your ship as opposed to bonuses.

But, regardless of what they end up being, I support them.

I've even included a ship crews creation mechanism stemming from my PI 2.0 suggestion. Basically, ship crews will be trained in academies, using isk and the excess civilian population generated on planets or moons, similar to the current PI production facilities setup.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#11 - 2011-11-17 20:07:45 UTC
Pelador Rova wrote:


Ezio? Ezio Auditore, I thought you were dead.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#12 - 2011-11-18 01:47:40 UTC
I will say this for the new forums: ignoring trolls has never been easier.
Twisted

Anyway, back to the subject at hand:

What sort of effect do people think Faction or even T2 crew might have? How might they be better or worse?

Some sort of upkeep? Maybe a standing hit in a rival empire's space? Thoughts.
Lucian Gaterau
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-11-18 02:15:22 UTC
The idea of a T2 crew sort of boggles the mind. What are they, Borg? :)

That said, I think having officer slots on a ship is an interesting one. Not sure how to fit it in without unbalancing current ships. One idea I had was that the officers could have skills better than your own, then officers could meet fitting requirements, etc. Also thought that officers could be used to introduce some limited automation -- for example, defense officer could automatically activate defensive modules & hardeners.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#14 - 2011-11-18 14:05:18 UTC
Lucian Gaterau wrote:
The idea of a T2 crew sort of boggles the mind. What are they, Borg? :)

That said, I think having officer slots on a ship is an interesting one. Not sure how to fit it in without unbalancing current ships. One idea I had was that the officers could have skills better than your own, then officers could meet fitting requirements, etc. Also thought that officers could be used to introduce some limited automation -- for example, defense officer could automatically activate defensive modules & hardeners.



Hmm...

The skill thing is an interesting possibility, the problem would be that older players wouldn't use them unless the skills ran to six. The idea of them adding to fitting requirements would definitely be a great leveler for new players though.


I was thinking that T2 crews might be crews drawn exclusively from trained professionals rather then recruiting the occasional dockside scum...

Faction crews might be drawn from their respective navies or pirate organizations.
Aesiron
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-11-18 15:32:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Aesiron
This takes place not in the future, but in the very far future. Ship crew has been long replaced by AI and computers.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#16 - 2011-11-20 22:36:27 UTC
Aesiron wrote:
This takes place not in the future, but in the very far future. Ship crew has been long replaced by AI and computers.


"Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft... and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." - Wernher von Braun

The universe is not digital, it's analog. Humans will always perform in a superior manner to machines in an analog environment, particularly in space where it's quite easy for events to occur that computers are not equipped to deal with.

Besides, existing fluff for EvE states that there are, in fact, crews aboard ship. Even pod piloted ones.
Aessaya
Independent treasure hunters
#17 - 2011-11-20 23:36:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Aessaya
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Aesiron wrote:
This takes place not in the future, but in the very far future. Ship crew has been long replaced by AI and computers.


"Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft... and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." - Wernher von Braun

The universe is not digital, it's analog. Humans will always perform in a superior manner to machines in an analog environment, particularly in space where it's quite easy for events to occur that computers are not equipped to deal with.

Besides, existing fluff for EvE states that there are, in fact, crews aboard ship. Even pod piloted ones.

Technically, not all of them. The smallest ones are piloted by the capsuleers alone. F.ex., the frigates (they were, iirc, conceived by the Caldari in Caldari-Gallente war as a one-man-piloted ship which is bigger than fighter but smaller than the cruiser), and i'm pretty sure shuttles do not have crew as well. Also fighters and fighter-bombers have crews (one pilot, each, and pilots can even be seen in fighter's mesh, like on a Templar).

Although the whole idea about crews is interesting. And i think CCP have mentioned the idea a couple of times during player gatherings, don't remember exact timings and words though.

Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song.

Venus Rinah
Arcanum Industry
#18 - 2011-11-21 04:13:04 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Aesiron wrote:
This takes place not in the future, but in the very far future. Ship crew has been long replaced by AI and computers.


"Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft... and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." - Wernher von Braun


"Unless mankind redesigns itself by changing our DNA through altering our genetic makeup, computer-generated robots will take over our world". - Stephen Hawking

Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
The universe is not digital, it's analog. Humans will always perform in a superior manner to machines in an analog environment, particularly in space where it's quite easy for events to occur that computers are not equipped to deal with.


What a load of nonsense. An opinion that only conveniantly supports your argument but:

I'd like to consider that the universe is made up of a number of analog and digital components and would question wether your claim that the universe is analog is valid, as an example consider the plank epoch as a quantised limiting factor. Likewise according to neuroscience the human brain consists of both digital and analog mechanisms so as a result likley has limiting aspects you want to associate with the "silicon" model. Needless to say it has absolutley nothing to support wether digital computation can out perform analog systems for the needs of space travel.

OP has obviously never heard of the concept of technological singularity.

Or acknowledges the current real life history of unmanned space travel where the majority of current space exploration has already been carried out by computers who make real time decisions and have to due to the time dialation of communication. Or the autopilot, unmanned planes, robotic mass manufacturing etc etc . Or that analog electronics and computation actually exist.

Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Besides, existing fluff for EvE states that there are, in fact, crews aboard ship. Even pod piloted ones.


The best argument to use might be one of ethics and morality decisions required not technological performance.
Aesiron
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2011-11-21 07:17:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Aesiron
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Aesiron wrote:
This takes place not in the future, but in the very far future. Ship crew has been long replaced by AI and computers.


"Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft... and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." - Wernher von Braun

The universe is not digital, it's analog. Humans will always perform in a superior manner to machines in an analog environment, particularly in space where it's quite easy for events to occur that computers are not equipped to deal with.

Besides, existing fluff for EvE states that there are, in fact, crews aboard ship. Even pod piloted ones.


That quote is merely a philosophy, we all know that computers can calculate many times faster than a human.

And the truth is machines are superior to humans in space because humans can't live in space and have emotions which we all know are a disadvantage in most cases, especially those which computers do. And tell me one event where computers are not able to deal with something that humans can that is relevant to EVE?
T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
#20 - 2011-11-21 07:20:15 UTC
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s260/MrOosterman/ideasforeve.png

ships crews are a great oppurtunity for a eve cellular client, i've made a few posts on this but can't be arsed finding it. :)

www.shipsofeve.com

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