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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#7141 - 2013-11-01 20:31:15 UTC
Tsukinosuke wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
Tsukinosuke wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
Tsukinosuke wrote:
125/125 drone bay/bandwidth for all marauders, would it break the game's balance?!?

Let me counter with another question: if they gave it to you, would you have any reason to use another ship for the same thing, whatever you're doing? If the answer is no then the answer to your question is yes.


there are a lot of requirements to fly it, do you know how long you have to wait to fly a marauder-sentry ship? " When in bastion mode, Marauder is immune to EW but cannot neither be remote assisted or remote assist in any way" it will give a bit balance? pvp and fleet usage may be nerfed a little bit.. Roll (triage mode off)

That bit is new! Where is it written that Marauders cannot *give* remote assist while in bastion?


im sure you are enough smart to notice underlined parts is the cost of 125/125 drone bay - bandwidth.. anyway, it may be caused my bad speaking..

it is just a raw idea for sentry lovers, tbh, it is still better than asking for speed to hull which it is useless(and ridiculous) with bastion.. or better than comparing 3b-4b worth machariel fitting vs t2 fitting vargur..


So... you become a sentry boat but can't rep your sentries?

That doesn't really make sense.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
SOL Ranger
Imperial Armed Forces
#7142 - 2013-11-01 20:38:12 UTC
Serge SC wrote:

...
I want them to actually mean and be what they are supposed to be. Marauders.


We got space bunkers instead, sucks to be us.

The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
#7143 - 2013-11-01 20:40:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Serge SC
hmskrecik wrote:


That said, you're not the first person arguing this new tractor structure hits Marauders where it hurts and I admit I don't get it. As far as I could check, the 40/48 km tractor range works precisely the same way on TQ and on test server. Unless you're competing in the same grid, which during mission running is rather rare occurence, you are in no way impaired by someone launching the thingy.

I dare say that uniqueness is a domain of special issue ships. Regular ones, like Marauders are, are supposed to get the job done and their bonuses are supposed to help with that. I repeat, until there is direct competition the fact that the other ship has bigger this or longer that is completely irrelevant.

Or did I miss something?

Apologies if my idea didn't come through very clearly.

My complaint is that with the tractor structure now makes no sense to actually use tractors on a marauder now, besides moving some stuff or grabbing the mission loot required to finish it. At 2000m/s it's fat more efficient to drop a couple near the accel gate and let them tractor stuff, and fit several salvagers to salvage the wrecks.Disregard this, apparently they've been modified to 1000m/s instead of 2000m/s. I'll have to test them once SISI downloads to test it.

The Marauder role bonus, the 100% bonus to tractor range and script, feels off with the changes. With the Noctis, the marauders lost their salvage king situation. Now with the tractor structure, is far better to have those instead of bonused tractors that are completely outclassed by a structure than any ship can carry.

I'd love if CCP could look into this, because the limited range of tractors, couple with immobility and micro jumps feel like a weird combination. Perhaps extend the tractor range, or extend the salvaging range, or a bonus to salvage drones speed and salvage per level? Something like that?

Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC
Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#7144 - 2013-11-01 20:41:09 UTC
Right now on SiSi, the tractor structure speed is 1000m/s.

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
#7145 - 2013-11-01 20:42:55 UTC
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
Right now on SiSi, the tractor structure speed is 1000m/s.

Ah great! The balanced that out, because Fozzie said 2000 on the test server forum, but that was a bit way too fast. Thanks.

Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#7146 - 2013-11-01 20:52:46 UTC
Serge SC wrote:
My complaint is that with the tractor structure now makes no sense to actually use tractors on a marauder now, besides moving some stuff or grabbing the mission loot required to finish it. At 2000m/s it's fat more efficient to drop a couple near the accel gate and let them tractor stuff, and fit several salvagers to salvage the wrecks.Disregard this, apparently they've been modified to 1000m/s instead of 2000m/s. I'll have to test them once SISI downloads to test it.

Okay, when you put it this way it starts making sense. Or rather, the hull bonus stops making it...

I agree that it would be nice if CCP looked into it, even though to me this bonus is just a bonus, nice to have but I can live without it.

Except the "salvage king" part. ;) Here being a champion was something which happened, not something which was supposed to be. And let me repeat, the position has been held ex equo with T3 Cruisers. So far for being THE king. ;)
Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#7147 - 2013-11-01 22:49:34 UTC
the mobile structure tractor is too slow. i wouldnt mind making it faster so you can use 3 salagers .

you have to remember the structure doesnt care what it tractors in, even useless small wrecks so unlike marauder you cant pick and choose which wrecks to bring in . also, isnt 100m3 volume a bit too much? i barely have room to loot in a marauder i cant imgine with only 600m3 in a t1
Kane Fenris
NWP
#7148 - 2013-11-02 00:03:02 UTC
Mer88 wrote:
the mobile structure tractor is too slow. i wouldnt mind making it faster so you can use 3 salagers .

you have to remember the structure doesnt care what it tractors in, even useless small wrecks so unlike marauder you cant pick and choose which wrecks to bring in . also, isnt 100m3 volume a bit too much? i barely have room to loot in a marauder i cant imgine with only 600m3 in a t1



why not drop one in every room and afterwards come with your noctis alt ?
all things will be packed up pretty so youll have 7-8 salvages maybe 1 tractor for wrecks to far away for the tractor unit....
Rio Bravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7149 - 2013-11-02 00:20:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Rio Bravo
Anize Oramara wrote:
Rio Bravo wrote:
The new Marauder class. It's a PVE ship, but with PVP capability from what I can see...Wouldn't know what to tell you if you asked me how to fly it. Have to see it in operation I guess first.

Fuel troubles me if your a mission runner with it. I hated buying cap charges and ammo for different damage types...now people want me to carry fuel too...might just fly a BS then. (Cheaper too). Trying to avoid hassles while doing missions, just one more thing to run out of.

The other thing is the skills it takes to fly it. Don't get me wrong, it's a great ship. But takes forever to train for. On top of that, it is very expensive. Any ship can be lost, but there are more cost effective alternatives then those beasts. Faction BS while the same price nearly, is way easier to train. T1 BS's might be rather sub-standard, but are like a 5th of the price, and can do the job for most missions or anoms. If your really strapped for cash can do decent sniping in a tier 3 BC. and T3 while all-in-one ships, are easy to train, yet on the costly side. The price of versatility.

I like the marauder, lots of nice work went into it. I would never PVP in something that shiney. Incursions you cannot do in it, maybe VG, but you'd be laughed out of a AS or HQ site fleet. For me, will be a ship I bring out on special occasions and parades....maybe run the odd high sec mission in it. I can't risk that kind of money out in null alone to do a scan site or anom. I would get hot-dropped to easily, and I would be shedding tears for days.

From an engineering perspective? Nice work CCP, flagship of the sub-caps! Deadly, I am sure, in the hands of a pilot who knows how to fly it! Perfectly balanced too I believe, enough, but not too much.

You seem to be confused, or didn't bother reading the first post of the thread. There are no fuel requirements. On the palladin there isn't even ammo really and kronos you only going to be using AM for the most part or null with blasters...

The marauder is a T2 BS to when you say BS do you mean T1 BS, navy BS or Pirate BS?

Paladins and Kronos is relatively popular in Incurtions because of webs but those are getting removed.

The marauder is and always has been very niche. It's main advantage for me was it could salvage and loot while missioning. Others used it for Incurtions but apart form that it is pretty niche. The change is aimed at diversifying and changing it's niche a little bit.

You really should read up a bit better on something you're commenting on next time.


Well, never said they had fuel, but that if some people get there way I would be disappointed. Thought I made a distinction between T1 and T2 when I mentioned the price being one 5th the price a marauder. I know Marauders are T2.
Yes I ran incursions, and saw Marauders there. They WERE good ships, but were talking now. Cant kite to gates and stuff sitting in bastion deploy, and can't be assisted in bastion mode...so to use the repair bonus your active tanking.

Thanks for marking my essay teacher. Maybe next time you should go to teachers college and I should pay you some kind of tuition before you start grading my writtings.

“You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. I dig.”  - Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#7150 - 2013-11-02 01:03:54 UTC
Mer88 wrote:
the mobile structure tractor is too slow. i wouldnt mind making it faster so you can use 3 salagers .

you have to remember the structure doesnt care what it tractors in, even useless small wrecks so unlike marauder you cant pick and choose which wrecks to bring in . also, isnt 100m3 volume a bit too much? i barely have room to loot in a marauder i cant imgine with only 600m3 in a t1

"I barely have room for two of these in my 1200m3 cargo bay..."
Good one. Roll

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#7151 - 2013-11-02 01:23:06 UTC
Found 2 bugs in the paladin for current sisi version.

When your tractoring in wrecks, the green 'beam' is crunched up into the ships hull, and does not reach out to the wreck.

When you deactivate bastion, the sound effect plays twice.

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
Xorionna
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7152 - 2013-11-02 02:11:55 UTC
Will tactical weapon reconfiguration require to train high energy physics after rubicon ?
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#7153 - 2013-11-02 02:38:23 UTC
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
Found 2 bugs in the paladin for current sisi version.

When your tractoring in wrecks, the green 'beam' is crunched up into the ships hull, and does not reach out to the wreck.

When you deactivate bastion, the sound effect plays twice.

Eve has sound?

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#7154 - 2013-11-02 03:04:18 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
Found 2 bugs in the paladin for current sisi version.

When your tractoring in wrecks, the green 'beam' is crunched up into the ships hull, and does not reach out to the wreck.

When you deactivate bastion, the sound effect plays twice.

Eve has sound?


Yes it does, and apparently the Bastion sound for the Vargur is amazing. Sadly I cannot verify this myself, as I currently.. well.. lack the skills to legitimately fly a Marauder.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#7155 - 2013-11-02 03:24:04 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Yes it does, and apparently the Bastion sound for the Vargur is amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4w9qfrvboU

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
TheButcherPete
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#7156 - 2013-11-02 03:48:29 UTC
The Incursion bear tears in this thread are rich.

I'm getting diabeetus, they're so rich.

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]
Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#7157 - 2013-11-02 03:51:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Shinzhi Xadi
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
Found 2 bugs in the paladin for current sisi version.

When your tractoring in wrecks, the green 'beam' is crunched up into the ships hull, and does not reach out to the wreck.

When you deactivate bastion, the sound effect plays twice.

Eve has sound?


Yes it does, and apparently the Bastion sound for the Vargur is amazing. Sadly I cannot verify this myself, as I currently.. well.. lack the skills to legitimately fly a Marauder.



Its a pretty good sound, the doors cover the lower solar panal bits, and there is a lightning effect under the long neck at the front of the ship.

Vargur bastion sound is better than the one for the Paladin i think.

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
#7158 - 2013-11-02 05:53:14 UTC
The Vargur sound is of metallic nature. One sound for each plate that opens. We used to have 6-7 plates covering each wingy bits, now they're double. They look the same, but behave as 2 plates. Once the top plate is pulled out, the one below and attached gets pulled, and so on. Each of these "pulls" has a sound. Great work there. Under the neck, the bit that opens, exposes a current thingy. It is hard to explain. Looks good, but I would've love some lights on the plates on the wingy bits.

The Paladin's sound is decent. More mechanic than metallic. I like it, and love the new skin and model (it's what the apoc should've been, instead of the fat ship we have now). The skin is now fixed and looks pretty well, also the part that opens has more lightning effects to them,

I haven;t tested the kronos nor golem, because Amarr and Minmatar are superior than anything.

Overall I'm still relatively happy. And after testing the depot, I went from AC varg to 1400 varg in 10 seconds (reload time) and it's wonderful.

Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC
Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#7159 - 2013-11-02 06:43:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Shinzhi Xadi
Serge SC wrote:
The Vargur sound is of metallic nature. One sound for each plate that opens. We used to have 6-7 plates covering each wingy bits, now they're double. They look the same, but behave as 2 plates. Once the top plate is pulled out, the one below and attached gets pulled, and so on. Each of these "pulls" has a sound. Great work there. Under the neck, the bit that opens, exposes a current thingy. It is hard to explain. Looks good, but I would've love some lights on the plates on the wingy bits.

The Paladin's sound is decent. More mechanic than metallic. I like it, and love the new skin and model (it's what the apoc should've been, instead of the fat ship we have now). The skin is now fixed and looks pretty well, also the part that opens has more lightning effects to them,

I haven;t tested the kronos nor golem, because Amarr and Minmatar are superior than anything.

Overall I'm still relatively happy. And after testing the depot, I went from AC varg to 1400 varg in 10 seconds (reload time) and it's wonderful.


I'm also loving the new depot, in a marauder, you can micro jump, deploy it, reweapon or alter your fit however, scoop, and immediately micro jump back. All in 1 minute total time.

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
SOL Ranger
Imperial Armed Forces
#7160 - 2013-11-02 08:04:17 UTC
Serge SC wrote:

...
...and love the new skin and model (it's what the apoc should've been, instead of the fat ship we have now).
...


I feel just the opposite, the TQ Paladin feels robust and made for battle, the SiSi(sissy) Paladin looks like a girly boy, I'm sure Arnold would agree with me.

I believe it is hard to find a more intimidating ship than the Apoc, especially the NApoc; The only problem the TQ Paladin has is the paint job.

The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.