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What's with the Secrecy?

First post
Author
Novenas Heresy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-10-30 17:08:20 UTC
Jayne Fillon wrote:
Ironically, this thread itself is in violation of forum rules 10 and 11.


Consider me appropriately chastised! :P
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-10-30 17:09:35 UTC
.....And people not recognizing the difference between a serious and legitimate issue and the normal forum chatter.
Anslo
Scope Works
#23 - 2013-10-30 17:12:41 UTC
INB4 Lock

Fake Edit: Reika you best be in a tackler tonight D:<

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Prince Kobol
#24 - 2013-10-30 17:16:28 UTC
I have played a number of MMO's and they all state that you can not post communications from GM's

Its nothing new.
Na Und
Galactronics
#25 - 2013-10-30 17:22:26 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
I have played a number of MMO's and they all state that you can not post communications from GM's

Its nothing new.


This is the only MMO I play, but it makes sense . . . it would only lead to someone being denied something (or otherwise) by a GM (who has the authority), and running to the forums to "litigate" it.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#26 - 2013-10-30 17:26:49 UTC
AS far as I know, that archos came out and started triage repping miners to try to prevent ganks. That would be against the rules, since carriers still in high sec are not allowed to interact as far as I know. I think flying it and shooting off fireworks is about the limit.

Anyway, a lot of companies has a non-disclosure of comms rule, because it's so much hassle to deal with the millions of "waah, i hate your decision" mails they get off the back of it.
Steam are funny though. They don't have a rule against disclosure, but the instantly delete any communications about bans and such so you simply can't annoy them with it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#27 - 2013-10-30 17:29:02 UTC
Ghost Phius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
On the other hand, it could simply be because it's none of our business. Blink


Considering the things not allowed to be discussed affect the game of players beyond the communication, clearly some of what is in some emails to the devs from one person is our business mate.

Anyway, as stated they are trying to avoid accountability...kind of reminds me of Richard Nixon's protestation, "When the President does it, that means it is not illegal" Yeah...we all know how that gem of logic worked out for him....Roll

How would you know the issues affect the game of other players?

If it "is" something that affects your game, you'll know about it... presumably open a ticket... and be the one having a discussion with CCP.

Every MMO has a similar policy, to protect the interests of the company and the client in question. It's an industry standard that is in place for good reason, whether you happen to understand it or not.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

RAW23
#28 - 2013-10-30 17:40:06 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Ghost Phius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
On the other hand, it could simply be because it's none of our business. Blink


Considering the things not allowed to be discussed affect the game of players beyond the communication, clearly some of what is in some emails to the devs from one person is our business mate.

Anyway, as stated they are trying to avoid accountability...kind of reminds me of Richard Nixon's protestation, "When the President does it, that means it is not illegal" Yeah...we all know how that gem of logic worked out for him....Roll

How would you know the issues affect the game of other players?

If it "is" something that affects your game, you'll know about it... presumably open a ticket... and be the one having a discussion with CCP.

Every MMO has a similar policy, to protect the interests of the company and the client in question. It's an industry standard that is in place for good reason, whether you happen to understand it or not.


A 'good reason' may serve one persons interest at the expense of another, for whom it will be a 'bad reason'. The rules are there to make life easier for the powers that be by making it harder to flag up their errors. That's a good reason for the 'authoritarian state' and a bad reason for the players/peasants.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.

Na Und
Galactronics
#29 - 2013-10-30 17:43:14 UTC
RAW23 wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Ghost Phius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
On the other hand, it could simply be because it's none of our business. Blink


Considering the things not allowed to be discussed affect the game of players beyond the communication, clearly some of what is in some emails to the devs from one person is our business mate.

Anyway, as stated they are trying to avoid accountability...kind of reminds me of Richard Nixon's protestation, "When the President does it, that means it is not illegal" Yeah...we all know how that gem of logic worked out for him....Roll

How would you know the issues affect the game of other players?

If it "is" something that affects your game, you'll know about it... presumably open a ticket... and be the one having a discussion with CCP.

Every MMO has a similar policy, to protect the interests of the company and the client in question. It's an industry standard that is in place for good reason, whether you happen to understand it or not.


A 'good reason' may serve one persons interest at the expense of another, for whom it will be a 'bad reason'. The rules are there to make life easier for the powers that be by making it harder to flag up their errors. That's a good reason for the 'authoritarian state' and a bad reason for the players/peasants.


Please identify the authoritarians who are forcing you to play this game.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#30 - 2013-10-30 17:48:01 UTC
Na Und wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Ghost Phius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
On the other hand, it could simply be because it's none of our business. Blink


Considering the things not allowed to be discussed affect the game of players beyond the communication, clearly some of what is in some emails to the devs from one person is our business mate.

Anyway, as stated they are trying to avoid accountability...kind of reminds me of Richard Nixon's protestation, "When the President does it, that means it is not illegal" Yeah...we all know how that gem of logic worked out for him....Roll

How would you know the issues affect the game of other players?

If it "is" something that affects your game, you'll know about it... presumably open a ticket... and be the one having a discussion with CCP.

Every MMO has a similar policy, to protect the interests of the company and the client in question. It's an industry standard that is in place for good reason, whether you happen to understand it or not.


A 'good reason' may serve one persons interest at the expense of another, for whom it will be a 'bad reason'. The rules are there to make life easier for the powers that be by making it harder to flag up their errors. That's a good reason for the 'authoritarian state' and a bad reason for the players/peasants.


Please identify the authoritarians who are forcing you to play this game.

Not to mention the fact that I don't think anyone wants the forum to degrade even further with every... single... ticket being discussed and cross examined by our resident internet lawyers... clogging the forums with absolute drivel and bold faced lies designed to get a ship reimbursed and other nonsense.

We have more than enough of that going on already.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

RAW23
#31 - 2013-10-30 17:53:37 UTC  |  Edited by: RAW23
Na Und wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Ghost Phius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
On the other hand, it could simply be because it's none of our business. Blink


Considering the things not allowed to be discussed affect the game of players beyond the communication, clearly some of what is in some emails to the devs from one person is our business mate.

Anyway, as stated they are trying to avoid accountability...kind of reminds me of Richard Nixon's protestation, "When the President does it, that means it is not illegal" Yeah...we all know how that gem of logic worked out for him....Roll

How would you know the issues affect the game of other players?

If it "is" something that affects your game, you'll know about it... presumably open a ticket... and be the one having a discussion with CCP.

Every MMO has a similar policy, to protect the interests of the company and the client in question. It's an industry standard that is in place for good reason, whether you happen to understand it or not.


A 'good reason' may serve one persons interest at the expense of another, for whom it will be a 'bad reason'. The rules are there to make life easier for the powers that be by making it harder to flag up their errors. That's a good reason for the 'authoritarian state' and a bad reason for the players/peasants.


Please identify the authoritarians who are forcing you to play this game.


That's pretty feeble. Are you really saying that no social group can be characterised as authoritarian so long as one can leave? The military isn't authoritarian? No country you can emigrate from can be authoritarian? No employer can be authoritarian? Obvious nonsense. ANY social group can have an authoritarian political structure and the social relationship between gamers and game companies is a perfect example of that type of relationship.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.

Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-10-30 17:57:14 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
How would you know the issues affect the game of other players?

If it "is" something that affects your game, you'll know about it... presumably open a ticket... and be the one having a discussion with CCP.

Every MMO has a similar policy, to protect the interests of the company and the client in question. It's an industry standard that is in place for good reason, whether you happen to understand it or not.


The part in bold is not actually true all the time. If you look at the actual issue that started this current mash up surrounded CCP playing favorites like they have in the past with BOB etc....That is the kind of thing that effects EVERYONE no special super secret status needed here, ALL of the EVE players were effected.

In reference to the policy I have no lack of understanding about why companies have it. The part about accountability was in reference to the overall incident not the email in particular and I am sorry if I miscommunicated regarding that apsect of my post.

Alt Two
Caldari Capital Construction Inc.
#33 - 2013-10-30 17:58:06 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
I have played a number of MMO's and they all state that you can not post communications from GM's

Its nothing new.

Can you please name some other successful MMOs that have this rule?
(This is not a disguised attempt at saying you are wrong. I am genuinely interested.)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#34 - 2013-10-30 17:58:47 UTC
Ah yes, down with authority!

Why should the people who created the game be able to create the rules too.

Completely unfair. LolLolLolLol

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#35 - 2013-10-30 18:03:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Ghost Phius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
How would you know the issues affect the game of other players?

If it "is" something that affects your game, you'll know about it... presumably open a ticket... and be the one having a discussion with CCP.

Every MMO has a similar policy, to protect the interests of the company and the client in question. It's an industry standard that is in place for good reason, whether you happen to understand it or not.


The part in bold is not actually true all the time. If you look at the actual issue that started this current mash up surrounded CCP playing favorites like they have in the past with BOB etc....That is the kind of thing that effects EVERYONE no special super secret status needed here, ALL of the EVE players were effected.

In reference to the policy I have no lack of understanding about why companies have it. The part about accountability was in reference to the overall incident not the email in particular and I am sorry if I miscommunicated regarding that apsect of my post.


No worries, you're fine.

Although I'd be interested to know exactly how you feel that issue affected your game.

What changed for you from before the incident, to after the incident?

For that matter, how were ALL of the EVE players affected, in your opinion?

Because, frankly, it had no affect on my game what so ever.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

RAW23
#36 - 2013-10-30 18:09:58 UTC  |  Edited by: RAW23
Ranger 1 wrote:
Ah yes, down with authority!

Why should the people who created the game be able to create the rules too.

Completely unfair. LolLolLolLol


Way to talk past the issue rather than engage with it. I don't think I have said anywhere that authority, or even authoritarianism, is always bad. What it is, very often, is stupid and self-destructive. CCP have nearly destroyed themselves in the past by failing to properly connect with their community. You might laugh at the notion of unfairness because you are big stronk eve player. But an ongoing failure to take this notion into account is likely to destroy, not protect, the very thing they have built. Eve is not just a set of game mechanics and code created by CCP. It is also a social group created in significant part by its members. The idea that CCP's decisions should never be question just because they are in a position of authority is completely unsustainable. Unfortunately, you don't seem to be really interested in actually discussing the issue. Cheap rhetorical point-scoring and sophistry seem more your thing.

tl;dr - The people who created the game can of course dictate the rules. That doesn't necessarily mean it is in either their interests or the interests of the players always to do so.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.

Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-10-30 18:10:10 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
No worries, you're fine.

Although I'd be interested to know exactly how you feel that issue affected your game.

What changed for you from before the incident, to after the incident?



I am one of those people that understands in a game where player vs player is supposed to mean something "ANY" gifting/endorsements by the devs that provide "ANY" economic and/or competitive advantage is not fair to EVERYONE not gifted of the same way.

It is a pure and simple integrity issue that CCP has repeatedly failed over the past ten years.
Na Und
Galactronics
#38 - 2013-10-30 18:15:41 UTC
Ghost Phius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
No worries, you're fine.

Although I'd be interested to know exactly how you feel that issue affected your game.

What changed for you from before the incident, to after the incident?



I am one of those people that understands in a game where player vs player is supposed to mean something "ANY" gifting/endorsements by the devs that provide "ANY" economic and/or competitive advantage is not fair to EVERYONE not gifted of the same way.

It is a pure and simple integrity issue that CCP has repeatedly failed over the past ten years.


You don't like it, leave.

[laughing at people whining about the "unfairness" of it all]
RAW23
#39 - 2013-10-30 18:18:42 UTC
Na Und wrote:
Ghost Phius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
No worries, you're fine.

Although I'd be interested to know exactly how you feel that issue affected your game.

What changed for you from before the incident, to after the incident?



I am one of those people that understands in a game where player vs player is supposed to mean something "ANY" gifting/endorsements by the devs that provide "ANY" economic and/or competitive advantage is not fair to EVERYONE not gifted of the same way.

It is a pure and simple integrity issue that CCP has repeatedly failed over the past ten years.


You don't like it, leave.

[laughing at people whining about the "unfairness" of it all]


(whisper) Last time that approach was pursued CCP had to lay off 20% of their staff and shelve one of their games. It is not a great strategy.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#40 - 2013-10-30 18:20:38 UTC
Ghost Phius wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
No worries, you're fine.

Although I'd be interested to know exactly how you feel that issue affected your game.

What changed for you from before the incident, to after the incident?



I am one of those people that understands in a game where player vs player is supposed to mean something "ANY" gifting/endorsements by the devs that provide "ANY" economic and/or competitive advantage is not fair to EVERYONE not gifted of the same way.

It is a pure and simple integrity issue that CCP has repeatedly failed over the past ten years.

Giving acknowledgement (in a variety of ways), encouragement, and help to those 3rd party groups that provide service to the player base is to be commended.

Suggestions otherwise are simply cutting off ones nose to spite your face.

Nothing that was done affects the player base in any tangible way... no ones game play was negatively affected. Not yours, not mine.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.