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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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marVLs
#6921 - 2013-10-29 11:45:15 UTC  |  Edited by: marVLs
zbaaca wrote:

i agree with 2nd argument.
but 1st one... why should you snipe with close range weapon and selectable damage profile ?


Because it's falloff?
Doug Mackenz
Ambivalence Co-operative
#6922 - 2013-10-29 11:52:32 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Doug Mackenz wrote:
Just loaded up Singularity to check out the Bastion stuff for the Marauders..... and the Vargur is semi transparent???

Is that like a semi-permanent cloak? Roll


Not quite. The ships visible but you can see through it. In space, in dock and in preview. Something must be wrong with the skin, or what ever you call it.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6923 - 2013-10-29 12:37:17 UTC
Can we talk about shield-tanked armor marauders?

Okay, I got bored. But I took the bastion paladin and stuck an XLASB tank on it. It can take 2100dps on one booster whilst pumping out 1100dps in return up to 40km. Not sure if this is cause for concern or not.

Dodixie > Hek
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#6924 - 2013-10-29 13:07:28 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Ok..
So, I just got finished running angel extravaganza.

I was using a cruise Golem with 1015 dps out to max target range (including CM-605 and RL-1005).


It took me within 1 minute of an hour to clear every room, including the bonus room.
That was from undock to dock, and the mission was 1 jump away.
I never had to warp out.
I was using my pith x-type XL booster, pulsing as needed, 2 x T2 invulns, and a t1 em rig.

That's probably the fastest I've ever been able to clear that mission, and the least amount of tanking issues.

In the bonus room, I was starting to get a little freaked, cause I was running out of cap.
However, I remembered I had MJD, so I finished up bastion cycle, MJD'd out, and my cap started building right back up.


1 hr is a pretty good clear time for angel's extravaganza.....
Do that without having to warp out in a navy or pirate.
I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.

An hour is not a good clear time. 40 - 50 mins on a vargur. Vargur is currently able to tank AE bonus room w/o bastion or cap boosters on a short range setup. I don't use prop for AE, tank is 2 gist A-type explosive hardeners, 1 gist A-type kin hardener, gist x-type large sb.
Total cost of that tank is just under 500mil and very easy to make stable if you like that sort of thing. Make sure to kill the cruise launchers first btw.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6925 - 2013-10-29 13:07:41 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Ok..
So, I just got finished running angel extravaganza.

I was using a cruise Golem with 1015 dps out to max target range (including CM-605 and RL-1005).


It took me within 1 minute of an hour to clear every room, including the bonus room.
That was from undock to dock, and the mission was 1 jump away.
I never had to warp out.
I was using my pith x-type XL booster, pulsing as needed, 2 x T2 invulns, and a t1 em rig.

That's probably the fastest I've ever been able to clear that mission, and the least amount of tanking issues.

In the bonus room, I was starting to get a little freaked, cause I was running out of cap.
However, I remembered I had MJD, so I finished up bastion cycle, MJD'd out, and my cap started building right back up.


1 hr is a pretty good clear time for angel's extravaganza.....
Do that without having to warp out in a navy or pirate.
I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.


I guess I could have mentioned this was full clear.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6926 - 2013-10-29 13:09:03 UTC
zbaaca wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:

I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.
Big smileBig smile
HAML tengu with 2x t2 invuls and em hard(not even exp) that has about 300 angel tank does ganza about 30-35 min with bonus room. no problem at all. most dangerous thing is 4 tacklers there. so means , u doing something wrong

but back to subj. without bonus RHML will be useless on golem.



Uhh, probably not.
There's no way in hell that you're full clearing in 30-35 min with a ham tengu.
Also, the tengu is soon to probably get beaten into the ground with the nerf bat.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6927 - 2013-10-29 13:10:23 UTC
Shantetha wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Ok..
So, I just got finished running angel extravaganza.

I was using a cruise Golem with 1015 dps out to max target range (including CM-605 and RL-1005).


It took me within 1 minute of an hour to clear every room, including the bonus room.
That was from undock to dock, and the mission was 1 jump away.
I never had to warp out.
I was using my pith x-type XL booster, pulsing as needed, 2 x T2 invulns, and a t1 em rig.

That's probably the fastest I've ever been able to clear that mission, and the least amount of tanking issues.

In the bonus room, I was starting to get a little freaked, cause I was running out of cap.
However, I remembered I had MJD, so I finished up bastion cycle, MJD'd out, and my cap started building right back up.


1 hr is a pretty good clear time for angel's extravaganza.....
Do that without having to warp out in a navy or pirate.
I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.

buddy of mine does it in a vargur on TQ in ~40 min, i don't remember if he has it down below that yet.
pretty sure he doesn't warp out at all even in the bonus room.

i have been using an mjd cruise/sentry Armageddon to do it at around 55 min



I highly doubt any of that....
Also, I never believe the "a friend of my friend, who's friend's friend was able to clear"
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6928 - 2013-10-29 13:12:46 UTC
SOL Ranger wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:

...
I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.


Translation:
Bastion is so utterly overpowered it trivializes missions to the point where piloting skills, fitting, effort and consequences in battle mean nothing.



Isn't that exactly what we should be getting out of a pve focused ship that take forever to train and cost as much as a capital?

I mean, they're supposed to be top teir pve.
They should be able to clear lvl 4's with no issues because they should be focused towards more difficult pve.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6929 - 2013-10-29 13:15:36 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Ok..
So, I just got finished running angel extravaganza.

I was using a cruise Golem with 1015 dps out to max target range (including CM-605 and RL-1005).


It took me within 1 minute of an hour to clear every room, including the bonus room.
That was from undock to dock, and the mission was 1 jump away.
I never had to warp out.
I was using my pith x-type XL booster, pulsing as needed, 2 x T2 invulns, and a t1 em rig.

That's probably the fastest I've ever been able to clear that mission, and the least amount of tanking issues.

In the bonus room, I was starting to get a little freaked, cause I was running out of cap.
However, I remembered I had MJD, so I finished up bastion cycle, MJD'd out, and my cap started building right back up.


1 hr is a pretty good clear time for angel's extravaganza.....
Do that without having to warp out in a navy or pirate.
I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.

An hour is not a good clear time. 40 - 50 mins on a vargur. Vargur is currently able to tank AE bonus room w/o bastion or cap boosters on a short range setup. I don't use prop for AE, tank is 2 gist A-type explosive hardeners, 1 gist A-type kin hardener, gist x-type large sb.
Total cost of that tank is just under 500mil and very easy to make stable if you like that sort of thing. Make sure to kill the cruise launchers first btw.


Vargur has always been a freak of nature when it comes to marauders.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#6930 - 2013-10-29 13:17:38 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
SOL Ranger wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:

...
I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.


Translation:
Bastion is so utterly overpowered it trivializes missions to the point where piloting skills, fitting, effort and consequences in battle mean nothing.



Isn't that exactly what we should be getting out of a pve focused ship that take forever to train and cost as much as a capital?

I mean, they're supposed to be top teir pve.
They should be able to clear lvl 4's with no issues because they should be focused towards more difficult pve.
um they can already clear with no issues. If you are having issues ur doing it wrong.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6931 - 2013-10-29 13:29:05 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
SOL Ranger wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:

...
I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.


Translation:
Bastion is so utterly overpowered it trivializes missions to the point where piloting skills, fitting, effort and consequences in battle mean nothing.



Isn't that exactly what we should be getting out of a pve focused ship that take forever to train and cost as much as a capital?

I mean, they're supposed to be top teir pve.
They should be able to clear lvl 4's with no issues because they should be focused towards more difficult pve.
um they can already clear with no issues. If you are having issues ur doing it wrong.


yes, no issues...

Other than jams, damps, neuts, TPs, large sig, low mobility.

Maybe marauders don't have many problems with angel extravaganza, but with all their weaknesses on live, this mission isn't exactly their biggest issue.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6932 - 2013-10-29 13:29:26 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
SOL Ranger wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:

...
I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.


Translation:
Bastion is so utterly overpowered it trivializes missions to the point where piloting skills, fitting, effort and consequences in battle mean nothing.



Isn't that exactly what we should be getting out of a pve focused ship that take forever to train and cost as much as a capital?

I mean, they're supposed to be top teir pve.
They should be able to clear lvl 4's with no issues because they should be focused towards more difficult pve.



They are not PVE focused anymore. Read the OP. PVE focused doe snot match EVE concept.. stated at start of thread.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6933 - 2013-10-29 13:35:54 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
SOL Ranger wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:

...
I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.


Translation:
Bastion is so utterly overpowered it trivializes missions to the point where piloting skills, fitting, effort and consequences in battle mean nothing.



Isn't that exactly what we should be getting out of a pve focused ship that take forever to train and cost as much as a capital?

I mean, they're supposed to be top teir pve.
They should be able to clear lvl 4's with no issues because they should be focused towards more difficult pve.



They are not PVE focused anymore. Read the OP. PVE focused doe snot match EVE concept.. stated at start of thread.


oh yes, their very niche pvp capabilities as well....
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#6934 - 2013-10-29 14:03:16 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:

yes, no issues...

Other than jams, damps, neuts, TPs, large sig, low mobility.

Maybe marauders don't have many problems with angel extravaganza, but with all their weaknesses on live, this mission isn't exactly their biggest issue.


I can agree with that. jams and damp immunity are nice for the few missions littered with them, the rest arnt a big issue with 4s... except mobility, which has gotten worse... :(
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6935 - 2013-10-29 14:15:17 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:

yes, no issues...

Other than jams, damps, neuts, TPs, large sig, low mobility.

Maybe marauders don't have many problems with angel extravaganza, but with all their weaknesses on live, this mission isn't exactly their biggest issue.


I can agree with that. jams and damp immunity are nice for the few missions littered with them, the rest arnt a big issue with 4s... except mobility, which has gotten worse... :(


Well, I do know that even using a lvl 5 Marauder, certain high damage missions can be problematice on live with their current sig radius'.

The best mission I can think of is Smash the Supplier.
Granted, this is an anti-Amarr mission in Gallente space, but if you're not worried about opposing standing, this mission is virtually undoable....



That said, I also plan to test a torp Golem in Angel extravaganza whenever I'm able to get it again...
Tsukinosuke
Id Est
RAZOR Alliance
#6936 - 2013-10-29 14:51:12 UTC
Jill Antaris wrote:

Btw the golem was designed around torpedoes, the only reason people fit CMs on it is because apparently torpedoes are fine, even if you use another weapon system on a dedicated torpedo platform. Would you be so kind to quote me a dev that stated they are build around long range? Because I was actually there when they introduced them so many years ago and can't remember it.

Strange, because I fly marauders since years and hate the changes, because they completely ignore the real problems of marauders(speed, range, application on the top golem, rail/sentry Kronos dps and a useful niche for the Vargur) in favour of a active tank that only people need that consistently ignore all the mechanics of the content(with a hand full of exceptions).

I would have preferred to see the new concept as a new ship class, instead changing a existent one or at least giving marauder pilots the opportunity to still fly the ship they used since years instead being forced to switch hulls, if they don't have real use for bastion and mjd.


how can you say golem is designed as a torpedo platform??? any referrance??? to be sure about Lai Dai philosopy you can check descriptions of the ships which they are developed by Lai Dai..

strange, because i have never flown marauder, i wasnt sure about worth training, till now.. also you should read description of marauder too..

some useful links: http://www.eveinfo.net/wiki/inde~385.htm and https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Ships:Battleships:Advanced_Battleships:Marauders


Jill Antaris wrote:
Btw Angels don't jam they paint.


please dont be so cocky, as if you are perfect..

anti-antagonist "not a friend of enemy of antagonist"
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#6937 - 2013-10-29 15:27:52 UTC
Tsukinosuke wrote:

how can you say golem is designed as a torpedo platform??? any referrance??? to be sure about Lai Dai philosopy you can check descriptions of the ships which they are developed by Lai Dai..


Used to be, until Cruises got buffed, now there's no real reason o use torps anymore...

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#6938 - 2013-10-29 15:51:16 UTC
toprs can do pretty solid damage on the golem but they need 2 t2 rigors and 2-3tps to do so still with ranges of around 33 rage 40 t1 its just not worth
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#6939 - 2013-10-29 16:05:04 UTC
Battle Cube wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
It's not all roses but it also isn't utter catastrophe too.

I think a lot of us were just hoping for something a bit more... meatier. The new model is slowly growing on me, particularly with the advent of the base color change. I really like my Raven; hope they don't change it too much.

To the truth, I was expecting more awesauce too. Those ships I tested both without and with bastion are just okay. But still better.

And speaking of models, well, I did expect Kronos unfolding into Tristan-like shape. So with whatever CCP could come up with I was bound to be disappointed. ;)


it would be nice if the ships changed shapes more... i was kind of expecting them to shift radically into... looking like a COMPLETELY different ship, like the sails retracting on the vargur and becoming more of a sleek thing, or the paladin going vertical or what have you. The vargur, so far, seems pretty disappointing, but whatever. I mean they arent terrible, but the negatives of the bastion mechanics make the prettyness not worth it


Once in a lifetime opportunity to make Vargur a space cannon wasted.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6940 - 2013-10-29 17:20:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Debora Tsung wrote:
Used to be, until Cruises got buffed, now there's no real reason o use torps anymore...

Just on bombers.

Vinyl 41 wrote:
toprs can do pretty solid damage on the golem but they need 2 t2 rigors and 2-3tps to do so still with ranges of around 33 rage 40 t1 its just not worth

Any way you slice it, by the time you add the additional modules (TPs, webs) to support torpedoes it's just not worth the extra 10% DPS for the huge range drop and lack of configuration options. Torpedoes need an overhaul to be seriously considered as a viable option (Bastion doesn't do it).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.