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[Rubicon] [Updated] Interdictor Rebalance

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gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#441 - 2013-10-28 16:59:20 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
why do they have a bigger sig radius than t1 destroiers?
in fact, why do they have a bigger sig radius than some CRUISERS?
really, do you think thise ships will have any chance to survive a fleet battle?
was looking forward to fly them again, looks that won't happen....
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#442 - 2013-10-28 17:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Marian Devers
Querns wrote:
Wow. Just, wow. So, rather than being able to launch 2-3 bubbles in quick succession, you'd prefer to horribly gimp your fit to logjam two bubble launchers onto a dictor? 100 extra CPU makes fitting a tank a whole lot easier!

The new interdiction sphere launcher proposed is qualitatively better than the current model in nearly every single way.


Go back to ratting you clueless noob, there's a reason every single dictor fits 2x interdiction sphere launchers. If you haven't figured out why that means you've never flown an Interdictor. In which case, why are you posting?

Edit: I'll give you a hint - what happens now when an Interdictor reloads his Sphere Launcher, and what will happen after the patch?
Drew Li
Space Exploitation Inc
#443 - 2013-10-28 17:06:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Drew Li
Can there be a new T2 launcher that fires all 3 at once 10k forward at 45 degree angles? Then limit dictors to 2 launchers, maybe reduce the number of probes to 2. That would allow dropping 4 bubbles, or shooting 3 forward and dropping 2.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#444 - 2013-10-28 17:09:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
Marian Devers wrote:
Querns wrote:
Wow. Just, wow. So, rather than being able to launch 2-3 bubbles in quick succession, you'd prefer to horribly gimp your fit to logjam two bubble launchers onto a dictor? 100 extra CPU makes fitting a tank a whole lot easier!

The new interdiction sphere launcher proposed is qualitatively better than the current model in nearly every single way.


Go back to ratting you clueless noob, there's a reason every single dictor fits 2x interdiction sphere launchers. If you haven't figured out why that means you've never flown an Interdictor. In which case, why are you posting?

Well, O Master of PvP, please explain to me how two single bubble launchers on a ship is better than one that can fire not twice, but three times under the same reload period.

e: Feel free to check eve-kill for some examples of me flying a sabre. I tend to prefer daredevils, though. That link is only for a single month, though -- all-time lists appear to be broken and I cannot be arsed to find all the times I ever flew a sabre.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Aegis Stormborn
Unknown-Entity
Naga Please.
#445 - 2013-10-28 17:21:21 UTC
As much as I like most of these changes, that 60 second reload is going to cause a lot of missed kills in small gangs.
kogelbiefstuk
Contraband lnc
Lack of F3CK3N Talent
#446 - 2013-10-28 17:41:02 UTC
Why is it that the sabre gets rockin resist increases on its tank over the rest ? its usually fit shield. but the flycatcher is a t2 ship with 0 resists to em on its shields? when are you gonna quit being so hatfull on the t2/t3 caldari em hole? come on! they are t2 they should have some resists on the tank they fit for.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#447 - 2013-10-28 17:41:09 UTC
Aegis Stormborn wrote:
As much as I like most of these changes, that 60 second reload is going to cause a lot of missed kills in small gangs.


the question is weather this is a bad thing or not
i think it will separate good pilots from bad pilots and thats a good thing
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#448 - 2013-10-28 17:41:24 UTC
Aegis Stormborn wrote:
As much as I like most of these changes, that 60 second reload is going to cause a lot of missed kills in small gangs.

Please expand a bit on what you mean.
kogelbiefstuk
Contraband lnc
Lack of F3CK3N Talent
#449 - 2013-10-28 17:46:23 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
Aegis Stormborn wrote:
As much as I like most of these changes, that 60 second reload is going to cause a lot of missed kills in small gangs.


the question is weather this is a bad thing or not
i think it will separate good pilots from bad pilots and thats a good thing



get use two then
Sigras
Conglomo
#450 - 2013-10-28 17:46:38 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Magazine terminology corrected. :)

Actually in that context either clip or magazine could be correct depending on how the sphere launcher is loaded.

Some weapons have a fixed magazine that you feed a clip into in order to reload (M1 Garand)
Other weapons have detachable magazines (AK-47)

So i guess my question is, which do interdiction sphere launchers use?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#451 - 2013-10-28 17:50:15 UTC
kogelbiefstuk wrote:
Why is it that the sabre gets rockin resist increases on its tank over the rest ? its usually fit shield. but the flycatcher is a t2 ship with 0 resists to em on its shields? when are you gonna quit being so hatfull on the t2/t3 caldari em hole? come on! they are t2 they should have some resists on the tank they fit for.


It's an artifact of how the T2 resists work. Every T2 ship gets T2 resists that work against that ship's race's lore enemy. So, for Caldari, the T2 resists bump kinetic/thermal resists to hilarious levels, since Gallente shoot that type of damage.

In the case of Minmatar, its lore enemy, Amarr, shoots EM/Thermal, so it gets extra resists for those types. However, the default profile of shields has an EM hole, so their T2 resists just fit naturally in the hole, which is why T2 minmatar ships are so beastly.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#452 - 2013-10-28 17:50:54 UTC
Well I get the heretic changes. It's forcing the amarr ship to fit an armor tank, same with the Eris.

Sabre's still the baseline, flycatcher's your shieldboat.

Thank you for turning the Eris back into a hybrid weapons ship. It should have some more potential of being a mobile sniping boat, especially with the tracking bonuses (it now has some method of applying damage, even it's its minimal), and be able to get out of its own bubble to do it). Eris looks like it could be a decent small gang ship.

Yaay!!!!
Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#453 - 2013-10-28 17:53:27 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Querns wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Magazine terminology corrected. :)

You've missed a great opportunity here -- namely, to call it "clipazine" and make the spergs on both side of the aisle angry.

In all seriousness, though, this is a very good change, especially to the interdiction sphere launcher. Too many times I've been sitting on a gatecamp, twiddling my thumbs, waiting for the sphere launcher to come off cooldown so I can ensure that a pod does not escape. The ASB-style reload mechanic means I don't have to wait any more.

One question -- can the new interdiction sphere launcher reload while cloaked? Having to hang out uncloaked on grid for a full minute, especially in a large fleet fight, would be darn near suicidal for the dictor, and just plain inconvenient otherwise. It's not a huge thing, but if it's possible, it'd be much appreciated.


It can't reload while cloaked. This is probably the part of the change that will have the most disruptive effect on current dictor tactics. However with the new resists and bonus pilots may choose to keep shooting while reloading and warping away and back is also always an option.


This is a good change, allows me to stay on the field to do some dps due to boosted survivability of my 12 dps flycatcher with 1 low! thankyou Fozzie!
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#454 - 2013-10-28 17:58:00 UTC
Nice v2 !

Count me in ! Pirate

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[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

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Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#455 - 2013-10-28 18:03:09 UTC
My flycatcher accepts these changes with joy.

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#456 - 2013-10-28 18:14:34 UTC
not exactly sure if this is a warp speed issue or if it belongs here

people have been talking about dictors instantly arriving on grid, therefore not giving ships already on grid a warning

is this a bug or a feature ?
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#457 - 2013-10-28 18:17:23 UTC
Marian Devers wrote:
Edit: I'll give you a hint - what happens now when an Interdictor reloads his Sphere Launcher, and what will happen after the patch?

With interdictors 5 and 2 launchers you can currently launch 2 bubbles and then both launchers are in a 59 seconds reactivation delay. You have a 70.8 seconds delay if you are at 4. With shipskill 1 to 3 you should fly something else anyway P

With the proposed design, you can launch 3 bubbles over a period of 15 seconds, then reload 60 seconds. Meaning your second batch of bubbles is 5 seconds late over a current interdictor 4 pilot, but you have one more bubble to compensate. With 5 the delay between the first and the fourth bubble is longer, but the delay between the first and the third significantly shorter, allowing you to interdict a larger volume of space initially.


Where the proposed setup is worse is in an Interdictor 5 scenario where you use both launchers with a 60 seconds offset to spam bubbles at a constant rate. This is, however, not a tactic one currently survives. If your dictors have that high of a degree of freedom of on-field mobility, you already dominate the field absolutely.

For a "going in, dumping bubbles, getting out again, repeat" scenario the v2 proposal gives you one additional bubble over most setups (few dictors can make triple fits work), and increased survivability on your way in and out.
Johan March
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#458 - 2013-10-28 18:20:46 UTC
Querns wrote:
Marian Devers wrote:
Querns wrote:
Wow. Just, wow. So, rather than being able to launch 2-3 bubbles in quick succession, you'd prefer to horribly gimp your fit to logjam two bubble launchers onto a dictor? 100 extra CPU makes fitting a tank a whole lot easier!

The new interdiction sphere launcher proposed is qualitatively better than the current model in nearly every single way.


Go back to ratting you clueless noob, there's a reason every single dictor fits 2x interdiction sphere launchers. If you haven't figured out why that means you've never flown an Interdictor. In which case, why are you posting?

Well, O Master of PvP, please explain to me how two single bubble launchers on a ship is better than one that can fire not twice, but three times under the same reload period.

e: Feel free to check eve-kill for some examples of me flying a sabre. I tend to prefer daredevils, though. That link is only for a single month, though -- all-time lists appear to be broken and I cannot be arsed to find all the times I ever flew a sabre.


I'm not sure this veritable demi-goddess of PVP realizes that the reactivation timer was a minute with dictors trained to V.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#459 - 2013-10-28 18:31:42 UTC
Mioelnir wrote:
Marian Devers wrote:
Edit: I'll give you a hint - what happens now when an Interdictor reloads his Sphere Launcher, and what will happen after the patch?

With interdictors 5 and 2 launchers you can currently launch 2 bubbles and then both launchers are in a 59 seconds reactivation delay. You have a 70.8 seconds delay if you are at 4. With shipskill 1 to 3 you should fly something else anyway P

With the proposed design, you can launch 3 bubbles over a period of 15 seconds, then reload 60 seconds. Meaning your second batch of bubbles is 5 seconds late over a current interdictor 4 pilot, but you have one more bubble to compensate. With 5 the delay between the first and the fourth bubble is longer, but the delay between the first and the third significantly shorter, allowing you to interdict a larger volume of space initially.


Where the proposed setup is worse is in an Interdictor 5 scenario where you use both launchers with a 60 seconds offset to spam bubbles at a constant rate. This is, however, not a tactic one currently survives. If your dictors have that high of a degree of freedom of on-field mobility, you already dominate the field absolutely.

For a "going in, dumping bubbles, getting out again, repeat" scenario the v2 proposal gives you one additional bubble over most setups (few dictors can make triple fits work), and increased survivability on your way in and out.

This is a well-reasoned explanation that even a simple person can follow. Thanks!

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#460 - 2013-10-28 18:32:47 UTC
Marian Devers wrote:
Roll back the changes. V1 was okay


Marian Devers wrote:
And please stop listening to people that have never flown the ship.


Am I the only one who finds this post confusing?

Good job, Foz-man! These dictors look pretty good to me: a hell of an improvement over version 1 and something I would definitely send to TQ for a few months of observation before contemplating whether more changes are necessary.

The only comment I really have at this point is that I'm not sure how I feel about the warp speed: I think if it were me I'd peg dictors at 8au/s, AFs at 9, and both flavors of inty at 13.5. Still, its not like dictors are going to get outrun by many targets even at 6au/s. I'll be curious to see how this plays out on TQ with warp speed mechanics just being so different in general. I suspect 6 au/s will be adequate, but I'll keep an eye on it.

I'm really glad you guys cooked up a real proposal! This just looks so much better than V1... I'm really relieved! Finally the months of "can't fight anything with my Sabre" look to be coming to an end!