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[Rubicon] [Updated] Interdictor Rebalance

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gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#381 - 2013-10-25 09:26:31 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
Scatim Helicon wrote:
LakeEnd wrote:
These are T2 ships, so they are supposed to be specialized, right? So why not make them specially good at tackling and surviving while doing that (speed, agility, low sig, t2 resists and what not). If you are worried about turning them to wtfbbqpwn machines that screw up balance of other ships, then remove some turrets/launchers for all I care. Make them good at their job, which is tackling fleets, offensive ability is distant second priority.

The 'T2 are more specialised' concept has largely gone out of the window at this point.


hmm, true, but interdictors/hictors are "THE most specialized t2 ships in game, so that should still count for something, i hope Roll
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#382 - 2013-10-25 14:04:37 UTC
You guys, the Minmatar Fleet ships and the proposed Ares have shown that a split weapon, selectable between the two, system can work well and give fitting and combat choices to the individual pilot. The issue with the Eris is its a throwback to a dated split weapon system where a pilot is forced to fit two weapon types on the ship, hurting the ship overall and making damage application sporadic and confusing.

All that would have to be adjusted is the turret and launcher hard points need to be increased equally and the bonuses adjusted so that EITHER missiles OR turrets could be equally effective when chosen as the weapon system of choice. But the key here is choice. The pilot gets to choose which to use and not be forced to fit both, or some combination thereof, in some Frankenstein fit.

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Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#383 - 2013-10-26 07:18:01 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
You guys, the Minmatar Fleet ships and the proposed Ares have shown that a split weapon, selectable between the two, system can work well and give fitting and combat choices to the individual pilot. The issue with the Eris is its a throwback to a dated split weapon system where a pilot is forced to fit two weapon types on the ship, hurting the ship overall and making damage application sporadic and confusing.

All that would have to be adjusted is the turret and launcher hard points need to be increased equally and the bonuses adjusted so that EITHER missiles OR turrets could be equally effective when chosen as the weapon system of choice. But the key here is choice. The pilot gets to choose which to use and not be forced to fit both, or some combination thereof, in some Frankenstein fit.


Agreed, if they want to Frankenstein they can. But otherwise they can go with a straight flush if they choose to as well.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#384 - 2013-10-26 18:27:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Maximus Andendare wrote:
You guys, the Minmatar Fleet ships and the proposed Ares have shown that a split weapon, selectable between the two, system can work well and give fitting and combat choices to the individual pilot. The issue with the Eris is its a throwback to a dated split weapon system where a pilot is forced to fit two weapon types on the ship, hurting the ship overall and making damage application sporadic and confusing.

All that would have to be adjusted is the turret and launcher hard points need to be increased equally and the bonuses adjusted so that EITHER missiles OR turrets could be equally effective when chosen as the weapon system of choice. But the key here is choice. The pilot gets to choose which to use and not be forced to fit both, or some combination thereof, in some Frankenstein fit.


Since they're not likely to change it into a drone boat, +1 to this. They should either do the same thing that they did with the scythe fleet issue and give strong bonuses for both while lacking a full round of slots (5/5 for guns & missiles), or go with 6/6. Speaking of the former, I'm still confused why the Navy Osprey got stuck with what it did despite having the same damage bonus as the scythe fleet issue, only kinetic. But that's a problem for another thread.

a 6/6 fitting for guns & missiles would be acceptable as long as it came with appropriate bonuses. The 7th hardpoint on the heretic is weird and unnecessary, and I think they should just drop a highslot for a low on that one and the flycatcher if they want to improve fitting. They'd have to use full t2 resists on them all, but give the flycatcher and heretic an extra low from a high. That and the heretic and flycatcher getting respective resist bonuses would be perfect, turning them into the 'combat' interdictors and the eris and sabre the 'attack' variants.

This would balance them all out appropriately, and provide proper differentiation and 'flavor' to them all. Although, I would still like to see a t2 CreoDron algos in place of the eris in its current incarnation, though...
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#385 - 2013-10-28 04:06:40 UTC
@Fozzie and friends: I hope you guys are going to post your second draft soon. And I hope it's good.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#386 - 2013-10-28 07:22:07 UTC
There probably won't be time for a third draft between now and release day, so the second draft has to be good.

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Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#387 - 2013-10-28 09:37:11 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
There probably won't be time for a third draft between now and release day, so the second draft has to be good.


I know :\

I'm not too optimistic, but hey, you never know.
Johan March
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#388 - 2013-10-28 13:54:39 UTC
I'd almost rather wait to a post-expansion update and do it right then half-ass it because of ~deadlines~.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#389 - 2013-10-28 14:28:41 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
OP now updated with version 2. We've incorporated the one bubble launcher per ship idea, added a new MWD sig penalty reduction and increased the resists (now EAF level T2 resists) and HP of all the dictors. We've also updated the Eris to the latest version of the Roden philosophy, giving it pure hybrid bonuses to Optimal, Tracking and Damage.

To compensate for the survivability changes we're dropping the warp speed a touch to 6.75au/s.
We've also moderated the changes to the agility of the Heretic and Sabre.

As for the bubble launcher, we have it set with a 3 round magazine, 5 second duration, and 60 second reload. One per ship.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#390 - 2013-10-28 14:31:56 UTC
Good changes fozz!!!

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LakeEnd
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#391 - 2013-10-28 14:38:27 UTC
Thats looking alot better than v1, need some time to digest these major changes though.
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#392 - 2013-10-28 14:38:58 UTC
That's much better Smile

Any chance of a T2 probe launcher, with faster reload?
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#393 - 2013-10-28 14:39:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
That... might be ok. Hmmm... Straight

Edit: wait wtf still one low on the flycatcher? What is wrong with you people??

Edit2: OK I'm done thinking about it. I'm going to stick to interceptors in Rubicon and just not worry about the dictors. Maybe expansion after next, a?

o7 fly coffins.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#394 - 2013-10-28 14:40:22 UTC
You've somehow messed them up worse
Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#395 - 2013-10-28 14:41:18 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
OP now updated with version 2. We've incorporated the one launcher per ship idea, added a new MWD sig penalty reduction and increased the resists (now EAF level T2 resists) and HP of all the dictors. We've also updated the Eris to the latest version of the Roden philosophy, giving it pure hybrid bonuses to Optimal, Tracking and Damage.

To compensate for the survivability changes we're dropping the warp speed a touch to 6.75au/s.
We've also moderated the changes to the agility of the Heretic and Sabre.

As for the bubble launcher, we have it set with a 3 round clip, 5 second duration, and 60 second reload. One per ship.


Thank you so much! Flycatcher is so much better now with these changes!

Wait, it's still a complete ******* garbage dictor. only 1 launcher per ship and Flycatcher is left with 6 launchers?

YEAH I WANNA NOS MAH FLYCASHUR XOXOXO

-10/10
Tuxedo Catfish
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#396 - 2013-10-28 14:42:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tuxedo Catfish
Please swap a lowslot for a mid on the Eris. Two mid-slot frigates and destroyers are a joke unless they're kiting ships, which dictors emphatically are not. I don't understand why something so counterproductive has to be a "design philosophy" for the Roden line. Not to mention even the armor-bonused Amarr one gets more than two!

Other than that, changes sound great.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#397 - 2013-10-28 14:42:52 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
xttz wrote:
That's much better Smile

Any chance of a T2 probe launcher, with faster reload?


It's something that very well may happen at some point. My first inclination with higher meta versions would be to give them larger magazines rather than faster reload, but both are possible.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Montami
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#398 - 2013-10-28 14:45:50 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
xttz wrote:
That's much better Smile

Any chance of a T2 probe launcher, with faster reload?


It's something that very well may happen at some point. My first inclination with higher meta versions would be to give them larger clips rather than faster reload, but both are possible.


RIP bubbling + cloaking + bubbling + cloaking + bubbling + cloaking.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#399 - 2013-10-28 14:49:42 UTC
Montami wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
xttz wrote:
That's much better Smile

Any chance of a T2 probe launcher, with faster reload?


It's something that very well may happen at some point. My first inclination with higher meta versions would be to give them larger clips rather than faster reload, but both are possible.


RIP bubbling + cloaking + bubbling + cloaking + bubbling + cloaking.



Oh no, tactics will have to adapt themselves to these new changes! :qq:

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Chirality Tisteloin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#400 - 2013-10-28 14:49:58 UTC
Looks interesting. Bubble launcher changes are good.

In terms of survivability I would go for minimum sig radius. Large ships should have real problems hitting them. MWD sig radius goes in the right direction but maybe you want to drive this even further. Assault frigates should be the counter to dictors.

I think cloaky dictors is still an interesting option: Maybe a slight increase in speed/agility while cloaked?

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