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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#6821 - 2013-10-27 02:23:58 UTC
what makes cruise and torp bad is velocity of the ships. anything over 200m/s and you have a chance of doing only 1/4 of the damage and if its 250m/s + then bye bye. I notice this is most problematic when fighting angels since they like to use afterburner to get close to you. that velocity bonus on golem is a joke. it barely do anything. they should at least double it .

The other bad thing about torpedo is they have no ammo to kill frigates effectively unlike cruise with their precisions.
Stray Denton
Firstbourne
#6822 - 2013-10-27 03:45:32 UTC
If they wanted to make the marauders more interesting why not give the bastion module dual modes...

Bastion DPS mode : range and damage bonus, ship is stationary and unable to mjd in this mode, tank standard -20%

Bastion Off mode : everything goes back to standard marauder

Bastion Tank mode : Tank bonus, ship velocity normal, bonus to mjd, standard dps, damage and range reduced by 20%

30 secs to change between on and off and unable to go from tank to dps or vice versa without switching off first.

Just a thought that popped into my head and not sure it would make the changes any better, I'm sure someone will kindly point out the flaws, but I do think it's a bit more interesting than the current tortoise concept.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#6823 - 2013-10-27 04:29:03 UTC
Stray Denton wrote:
If they wanted to make the marauders more interesting why not give the bastion module dual modes...

Bastion DPS mode : range and damage bonus, ship is stationary and unable to mjd in this mode, tank standard -20%

Bastion Off mode : everything goes back to standard marauder

Bastion Tank mode : Tank bonus, ship velocity normal, bonus to mjd, standard dps, damage and range reduced by 20%

30 secs to change between on and off and unable to go from tank to dps or vice versa without switching off first.

Just a thought that popped into my head and not sure it would make the changes any better, I'm sure someone will kindly point out the flaws, but I do think it's a bit more interesting than the current tortoise concept.


It's already been proposed by other players numerous times (though, I wouldn't blame you if you didn't read through the nearly 7000 posts this thread already has). Don't really see any further point in proposing alternatives to the current bastion mod tbh. CCP didn't really seem interested in the twin bastion/scripted bastion idea before, no reason to think they would suddenly change their mind now. Maybe once things go live, that might change, though I doubt it.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6824 - 2013-10-27 04:39:38 UTC
Not sure if it's been asked already, but will there be (or is it being considered) to have a T2 bastion module?
stars0ft
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#6825 - 2013-10-27 04:48:49 UTC  |  Edited by: stars0ft
I used to run level 4s in an apoc, i always wanted to use a paladin but the tank and range+dps was horrible. so i went with a tengu, which i dont like but was the best

the changes youve suggested with improving the tank make the paladin sound like a real option for a level4s,

the web bonus existed for slowing down elite frigs in those missions. as long as while in bastion mode you can hit elite frigs i dont see why would need the web bonus.

i like what you are saying with the micro jump drive, but the issue is this, if you run a mission using a microjump drive is pretty horrible, to get to the next gate, most gates are random distances away.

i guess i would suggest making it so a marauder would have a special role bonus to mjump directly to mission gates?

i would also suggest not making mods use fuel so you dont spend more isk on your mods then you make in a mission.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6826 - 2013-10-27 05:03:59 UTC
stars0ft wrote:
I used to run level 4s in an apoc, i always wanted to use a paladin but the tank and range+dps was horrible. so i went with a tengu, which i dont like but was the best

the changes youve suggested with improving the tank make the paladin sound like a real option for a level4s,

the web bonus existed for slowing down elite frigs in those missions. as long as while in bastion mode you can hit elite frigs i dont see why would need the web bonus.

i like what you are saying with the micro jump drive, but the issue is this, if you run a mission using a microjump drive is pretty horrible, to get to the next gate, most gates are random distances away.

i guess i would suggest making it so a marauder would have a special role bonus to mjump directly to mission gates?

i would also suggest not making mods use fuel so you dont spend more isk on your mods then you make in a mission.


I felt the same as you before I had the chance of testing the MJD.
I didn't think it would work out at all.

However, after using it, it works quite well in lvl 4's.
All you have to do is align in a direction that would put you at a relative distance from the gate.
Then you jump. You can bastion for a cycle and then MJD back to the gate and bastion some more.
Or, you can jump and bastion till it's clear, then jump to the gate when the room is clear.

It actually works damn well.
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#6827 - 2013-10-27 05:27:57 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:


I've actually flown a torp golem in lvl 4's before.
Javs are almost required to properly hit frigs and cruisers with effective damage.

Also, a volley does so much damage that even against bss, rage torps have a ton of overkill.
At one point when I used to fly it, I actually considered no longer carrying rage torps, as the difference in kills was 1 volley or less.

nope javs have the same stats as t1 but thet have reduced damage so how can you claim that they are essential to killing frigs and cruisers Ugh maybe your talking about precission cruise missles ?
Battle Cube
Cube Collective
#6828 - 2013-10-27 06:11:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Battle Cube
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Stray Denton wrote:
If they wanted to make the marauders more interesting why not give the bastion module dual modes...

Bastion DPS mode : range and damage bonus, ship is stationary and unable to mjd in this mode, tank standard -20%

Bastion Off mode : everything goes back to standard marauder

Bastion Tank mode : Tank bonus, ship velocity normal, bonus to mjd, standard dps, damage and range reduced by 20%

30 secs to change between on and off and unable to go from tank to dps or vice versa without switching off first.

Just a thought that popped into my head and not sure it would make the changes any better, I'm sure someone will kindly point out the flaws, but I do think it's a bit more interesting than the current tortoise concept.


It's already been proposed by other players numerous times (though, I wouldn't blame you if you didn't read through the nearly 7000 posts this thread already has). Don't really see any further point in proposing alternatives to the current bastion mod tbh. CCP didn't really seem interested in the twin bastion/scripted bastion idea before, no reason to think they would suddenly change their mind now. Maybe once things go live, that might change, though I doubt it.

ccp doesnt really seem interested in anything other then their original post, that is to say, they arent changing it :\

300 pages later and they just revert to their original design, maybe a few tweaks like adjusting nerfs, but over all exactly the same.

depressing.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6829 - 2013-10-27 07:18:07 UTC
Battle Cube wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Stray Denton wrote:
If they wanted to make the marauders more interesting why not give the bastion module dual modes...

Bastion DPS mode : range and damage bonus, ship is stationary and unable to mjd in this mode, tank standard -20%

Bastion Off mode : everything goes back to standard marauder

Bastion Tank mode : Tank bonus, ship velocity normal, bonus to mjd, standard dps, damage and range reduced by 20%

30 secs to change between on and off and unable to go from tank to dps or vice versa without switching off first.

Just a thought that popped into my head and not sure it would make the changes any better, I'm sure someone will kindly point out the flaws, but I do think it's a bit more interesting than the current tortoise concept.


It's already been proposed by other players numerous times (though, I wouldn't blame you if you didn't read through the nearly 7000 posts this thread already has). Don't really see any further point in proposing alternatives to the current bastion mod tbh. CCP didn't really seem interested in the twin bastion/scripted bastion idea before, no reason to think they would suddenly change their mind now. Maybe once things go live, that might change, though I doubt it.

ccp doesnt really seem interested in anything other then their original post, that is to say, they arent changing it :\

300 pages later and they just revert to their original design, maybe a few tweaks like adjusting nerfs, but over all exactly the same.

depressing.


It works and works well. You should try them, they are much better than the old ones.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#6830 - 2013-10-27 08:07:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
It works and works well. You should try them, they are much better than the old ones.


While I confess that I don't entirely have much of a grasp on how to interpret a ship's inertia modifier, the Vargur looks like it accelerates better and is more agile than the Tempest it was created from. Not only that, but it has more EHP and better cap as well.

No complaints on hull stats here.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#6831 - 2013-10-27 08:29:21 UTC
Battle Cube wrote:
ccp doesnt really seem interested in anything other then their original post, that is to say, they arent changing it :\

Why should they? The current iteration, which is refined initial proposal, is working fine. I'm flying Kronos on SiSi since couple of days and after getting used to I should say I'm happy with results. Here are times to complete of a bunch of missions I did just recently:

Dread Pirate Scarlet: 26m
Worlds Collide(serp/gur): 31m
Smash the Supplier: 21m
Assault(serp): 31m
Recon1(serp): 12m
Recon1+2: 19m
Gone Berserk: ~8m

Times are indicative, measured from undock/warpin to end of shooting or from last tick to end of shooting, no blitzing.

I know your e-peen is bigger and you can complete each of those missions in 5 minutes or shorter, but the point is that those times are comparable OR BETTER to what I could achieve on TQ with the same skills, techniques and implants and when flying Machariel (and shooting RF ammo, because I could). And those SiSi times can be improved as I did some erratic MJDing across the field and now and then forgot to turn off bastion when the moment was right.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6832 - 2013-10-27 08:32:05 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
It works and works well. You should try them, they are much better than the old ones.


While I confess that I don't entirely have much of a grasp on how to interpret a ship's inertia modifier, the Vargur looks like it accelerates better and is more agile than the Tempest it was created from. Not only that, but it has more EHP and better cap as well.

No complaints on hull stats here.


I can tank anoms with just two lows and my blasters go out to 90 to 100km. Or swap out the scripts and I can track frigates orbiting me down to under 10km at which point my smartbombs take over. I have no need for drones other than salvagers and a few ecm just in case.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#6833 - 2013-10-27 08:46:24 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
I can tank anoms with just two lows and my blasters go out to 90 to 100km.

Hm, unless you're using some crazy officer stuff, I don't believe you can reliably hit at that range. During my recent tests even within falloff I had noticeable amount of misses against battleships. Though admittedly the overall dps was still nice.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6834 - 2013-10-27 11:12:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
It works and works well. You should try them, they are much better than the old ones.


While I confess that I don't entirely have much of a grasp on how to interpret a ship's inertia modifier, the Vargur looks like it accelerates better and is more agile than the Tempest it was created from. Not only that, but it has more EHP and better cap as well.

No complaints on hull stats here.


I can tank anoms with just two lows and my blasters go out to 90 to 100km. Or swap out the scripts and I can track frigates orbiting me down to under 10km at which point my smartbombs take over. I have no need for drones other than salvagers and a few ecm just in case.



but in high sec smartbobms are a big no no

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6835 - 2013-10-27 11:32:54 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I can tank anoms with just two lows and my blasters go out to 90 to 100km.

Hm, unless you're using some crazy officer stuff, I don't believe you can reliably hit at that range. During my recent tests even within falloff I had noticeable amount of misses against battleships. Though admittedly the overall dps was still nice.


3x computers in the mids all t2 everything. The dps at these extream ranges will only worry frigates but once down to 50km the firepower is rather good.
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#6836 - 2013-10-27 11:55:24 UTC
I've run around 6 or so lvl5's in the revised paladin SiSi, I'm happy with the results. Hop into the mission, immediately skip off 100km, bastion a cycle then skip off another 100km so I'm out of neut tower range (200km). At that point I just bastion till I'm done or nearly done with that room and come back to move to the next if needed.

While in neut tower range I'm running a cap booster but I find I only use around 5-10 charges in the initial fight, once at range I can perma run the tachyons and pulse the single T2 LAR as needed to keep the ship up without using cap boosters. This is single client, no links. Hell, I wasn't even running any sort of tanking implants, just gunnery hardwirings.

The vargur is more problematic. It has a better tank theoretically but the weapon range is so crap you end up just having to sit in the middle of it all the time. End result is you don't out range most enemies and you're stuck dealing with those damned neut towers all day. The vargur, in my opinion, is not an efficient lvl5 runner with either 1400mm arty's or 800mm AC's. On the other hand, in far less punishing (and generally shorter ranged) lvl4 missions, I suspect the vargur maybe the better ship as simply sitting in the middle of it isn't so suicidal. I also suspect the vargur would fair better in pvp.

Looking forwards to trying out the kronos later today, have one of my alts training up the high energy physics skill right now. Only a few hours left and that toon has all the other requirements. Should be very similar to the paladin I think. That toon can also fly a golem but an initial look at that didn't impress. With torps it just doesn't have the range much like the vargur. My alt has crap cruise skills so can't give that a fair test.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6837 - 2013-10-27 11:58:06 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
It works and works well. You should try them, they are much better than the old ones.


While I confess that I don't entirely have much of a grasp on how to interpret a ship's inertia modifier, the Vargur looks like it accelerates better and is more agile than the Tempest it was created from. Not only that, but it has more EHP and better cap as well.

No complaints on hull stats here.


I can tank anoms with just two lows and my blasters go out to 90 to 100km. Or swap out the scripts and I can track frigates orbiting me down to under 10km at which point my smartbombs take over. I have no need for drones other than salvagers and a few ecm just in case.



but in high sec smartbobms are a big no no


Just blast them!
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#6838 - 2013-10-27 13:04:34 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:


but in high sec smartbobms are a big no no


Smartbombs in highsec are only a problem if you hit something you shouldn't. Usually this is another player. For the most part, it seems to me that LCOs and space-rocks don't have any legal rights and so smartbomb attacks against them are not responded to by CONCORD.

I may need to test this theory, however.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#6839 - 2013-10-27 13:45:29 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:


but in high sec smartbobms are a big no no


Smartbombs in highsec are only a problem if you hit something you shouldn't. Usually this is another player. For the most part, it seems to me that LCOs and space-rocks don't have any legal rights and so smartbomb attacks against them are not responded to by CONCORD.

I may need to test this theory, however.


I'm pretty sure they removed the whole CONCORD protecting space rocks and LCO/Accel gates some time ago.

You can still get dicked over by a cloaked ship when you fire a SB, but pulsing it and checking d-scan should keep you in the clear.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6840 - 2013-10-27 16:04:03 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
You can still get dicked over by a cloaked ship when you fire a SB, but pulsing it and checking d-scan should keep you in the clear.

Or drones (unless they changed that).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.