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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6761 - 2013-10-26 00:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Joe Risalo wrote:
I do... though, with bastion, I haven't had to use it... I know my luck though, and once I drop it is when I'll need it.
Oh, and I use a pith x XL shield booster.. That's why...

I only need a Gistum A-Type medium shield booster. Guess I'm doing it wrong... Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Shantetha
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6762 - 2013-10-26 01:59:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Shantetha
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Can we maybe... I dunno... get back to discussing Marauders?


i went pop quick on the test server during the mass test. my repper cycle didnt even finish before ship went boom. my pod with full hg slaves escaped, unharmed.
2013.10.24 17:55:00

Destroyed: Paladin
System: Poitot
Security: 0.0
Damage Taken: 41027

Involved parties:

Name: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (laid the final blow)
Security: -4.90
Corp: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Alliance: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Faction: None
Ship: Moros
Weapon: Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I
Damage Done: 31937

Name: XXXXXXXXXXXX
Security: -0.5
Corp: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Alliance: None
Faction: None
Ship: Apocalypse Navy Issue
Weapon: Mega Pulse Laser II
Damage Done: 9090

Destroyed items:

Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
Hobgoblin II, Qty: 10 (Drone Bay)
Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Tracking Enhancer II
Conflagration L
Damage Control II
Tracking Speed Script
Scan Resolution Script
Small Mobile Siphon Unit (Cargo)
Heavy Capacitor Booster II
Scorch L, Qty: 4 (Cargo)
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Conflagration L

Dropped items:

Heat Sink II
Sensor Booster II
Salvage Drone I, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay)
Bastion Module I
Conflagration L
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Nanite Repair Paste, Qty: 8
Mega Pulse Laser II
Navy Cap Booster 800, Qty: 14 (Cargo)
Heat Sink II
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
Large Micro Jump Drive
Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II
Large Ancillary Armor Repairer
Mega Pulse Laser II
Nanite Repair Paste, Qty: 1879 (Cargo)
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Navy Cap Booster 800, Qty: 6
Tracking Computer II
Mobile Cynosural Inhibitor (Cargo)
Mega Pulse Laser II
Heat Sink II
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#6763 - 2013-10-26 03:05:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
You anchor your self in front of a dreadnought while sporting ehp of a tier 3 bc ...

I wonder what happened there :)

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Shantetha
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6764 - 2013-10-26 03:32:38 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
You anchor your self in front of a dreadnought while sporting ehp of a tier 3 bc ...

I wonder what happened there :)

I anchored in the middle of the fleet that was setting up the gate camp. :P and ya, active armor tank is tiny.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6765 - 2013-10-26 03:35:46 UTC
Shantetha wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
You anchor your self in front of a dreadnought while sporting ehp of a tier 3 bc ...

I wonder what happened there :)

I anchored in the middle of the fleet that was setting up the gate camp. :P and ya, active armor tank is tiny.


Yeah, with bastion, these are dread chew toys....
If you see a dread, run or stay out of bastion....
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6766 - 2013-10-26 04:54:41 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
We arnt even talking about cap injectors, XL ASB's and Count how many navy 400's you can put in Your hold.. :P



still they end.... and still marauders cannot move.. and therefore cannot track any damm single AB cruiser.


Blasters on my kronos will start hitting said ab curse from 100km and will track it down to 10km before hitting issues. It will be dead or in warp before it can evern get into range. If they hit me at close range then the curse will empty its hold of boosters long before I do and if it gets under my guns it has to deal with the smartbombs.

Against small ships these ships are are just down right deadly.
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#6767 - 2013-10-26 05:11:45 UTC
Shantetha wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
You anchor your self in front of a dreadnought while sporting ehp of a tier 3 bc ...

I wonder what happened there :)

I anchored in the middle of the fleet that was setting up the gate camp. :P and ya, active armor tank is tiny.


next time use that mjd and that bonus range to not get stuck at 0 range in font of a dread fleet >_>'
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6768 - 2013-10-26 05:12:13 UTC
I was getting ready to test golem torp range, but the server is down... of course...
Shantetha
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6769 - 2013-10-26 05:24:17 UTC
Vinyl 41 wrote:
Shantetha wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
You anchor your self in front of a dreadnought while sporting ehp of a tier 3 bc ...

I wonder what happened there :)

I anchored in the middle of the fleet that was setting up the gate camp. :P and ya, active armor tank is tiny.


next time use that mjd and that bonus range to not get stuck at 0 range in font of a dread fleet >_>'

had 40 seconds before i could mjd, cause once you commit to bastion it's 60 seconds of TARGET before you can move :P
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#6770 - 2013-10-26 05:29:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Vinyl 41
bastioning in a blob when you know there are dreds comming GOOD JOB Twisted
but back to the bastion and torpedos constant mjd is kinda cap heavy but thats mostly the only cap usage you will have with bastion Cool - still trying to get smash the supplier to see how good bastion will do there Twisted
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6771 - 2013-10-26 07:11:24 UTC
Vinyl 41 wrote:
bastioning in a blob when you know there are dreds comming GOOD JOB Twisted
but back to the bastion and torpedos constant mjd is kinda cap heavy but thats mostly the only cap usage you will have with bastion Cool - still trying to get smash the supplier to see how good bastion will do there Twisted


Yeah, of all lvl 4 missions, that's gotta be the hardest hitting one I've ever done
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#6772 - 2013-10-26 07:16:30 UTC
with cruise missles its super easy but with torps its supposed to be fun Cool
John Holt
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6773 - 2013-10-26 07:31:58 UTC  |  Edited by: John Holt
self edited

Done my time in null sec, now I'm just a Privateer wandering around High and Low Sec.
marVLs
#6774 - 2013-10-26 07:45:03 UTC  |  Edited by: marVLs
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong, but you're wrong...

First, with V skills and no implants, the base range is 62.9km. This increases to 88.6km with two T2 hydraulic rigs. 105m explosion radius and 121.5m/sec explosion velocity. With Bastion I imagine even with stacking penalties this would push it out past 100km (someone please feel free to confirm).

Second, it's not just about raw DPS - it's about damage application. There's a finite degree to the amount you can micromanage optimal damage, so consider this: let's say you have a target that only requires two volleys of heavy missiles to destroy. You could fire two volleys of cruise missiles @ 16 seconds for full (wasted) DPS, or two volleys of heavy missiles @ about 10 seconds for 80% (but 100% utilized) DPS. The end result is the same, regardless of cruise having more DPS. And the heavier missiles were cheaper and you can get an extra volley out to a new target in the same timeframe.

Would I run RHMLs exclusively? Probably not. But a 50-50 mix of RHMLs and cruise missiles is a winning combination.



Whaaa? Stop telling this bs here Lol

105m exp radius? base range of 62? You'r taking those numbers from t1 missiles, not even Heavy Furys... What?
Then You have 700DPS (faction missiles, max skills, +6% imps) and good luck with that on lvl4 compared to cruise missiles lol even torps will do everywhere better.
Do You ever do single lvl4 mission? Or maybe You'r from those PVE experts that fit ravens with CCC? Sry cant' hold myself Ugh

Yeah sometimes some % of volley is wasted because target have less hp that missiles have damage, but even with this Cruises will own in every situation RHML on targets that are bigger than frigates. And go shoot with that (small volley 700DPS) NPC battleships, You will be surprised how longer it takes compared to cruises or torps, because of shooting with that small DPS with small volleys You let them to rep themselfs moreAttention

And that last sentence... fitting on golem 2Cruise launchers + 2RHML ... that just say everything about You'r "knowledge".
Sry if i have offended You but im pissed when peps say something without checking it, or have no idea about it, and You argue on You'r assumptions...

But don't believe me go check it on SiSi Lol
Shantetha
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6775 - 2013-10-26 08:00:03 UTC
Vinyl 41 wrote:
with cruise missles its super easy but with torps its supposed to be fun Cool


haven't gotten smash supplier yet, but pirate blockade and a couple of others (i'll be running more but time has been limited due to RL ) was stupid easy, boring and took 20 min for PB cause with full room agro from the start oops...

Pretty much had to use scorch(800dps ) as everything was orbiting at 50km+ cept frigs at 25 and they had to be droned down. The bastion module appears to have a ewar threat bonus so stuff pretty much ignores light drones when you are bastioned; which at least is nice given the usual eat drones AI now. It sucks getting ~100ish dps from drones instead of 300, 75mb bandwidth was fine on it before, and would be fine even with the new range. I'd bet the drone bandwidth nerf is an attempt to start addressing the sentry assist fleets in nullsec.

the funniest part of the l4 was 2 of the battleships refused to get closer then 105km to me, so i finished everything else and mjd while approaching one, the mjd ramed him and sent the nightmare flipping pointy bit over arse. So as a solo missioning ship the paladin is fine, like we all knew it would it be. i'll have to take a few into the combat system to get a feel for solo pvp in them that's less likely to have capital support. But even with seeing the reps, i'm not convinced that the 100% remote assistance lockout is needed, 75-50% reduction in Remote reps when bastioned i could definitely see, locking out tracking/sensor boosting okay that's reasonable.

Remove the lockout on cap transfer, if they can vamp other targets it would make sense that they could cap transfer.


and ya i don't do many fights with capitals. I figured i would get blapped, but not in the first 15 seconds of the fight :P
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#6776 - 2013-10-26 08:03:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Vinyl 41
Shantetha wrote:
Vinyl 41 wrote:
with cruise missles its super easy but with torps its supposed to be fun Cool


haven't gotten smash supplier yet, but pirate blockade and a couple of others (i'll be running more but time has been limited due to RL ) was stupid easy, boring and took 20 min for PB cause with full room agro from the start oops...

Pretty much had to use scorch(800dps ) as everything was orbiting at 50km+ cept frigs at 25 and they had to be droned down. The bastion module appears to have a ewar threat bonus so stuff pretty much ignores light drones when you are bastioned; which at least is nice given the usual eat drones AI now. It sucks getting ~100ish dps from drones instead of 300, 75mb bandwidth was fine on it before, and would be fine even with the new range. I'd bet the drone bandwidth nerf is an attempt to start addressing the sentry assist fleets in nullsec.

the funniest part of the l4 was 2 of the battleships refused to get closer then 105km to me, so i finished everything else and mjd while approaching one, the mjd ramed him and sent the nightmare flipping pointy bit over arse. So as a solo missioning ship the paladin is fine, like we all knew it would it be. i'll have to take a few into the combat system to get a feel for solo pvp in them that's less likely to have capital support. But even with seeing the reps, i'm not convinced that the 100% remote assistance lockout is needed, 75-50% reduction in Remote reps when bastioned i could definitely see, locking out tracking/sensor boosting okay that's reasonable.

Remove the lockout on cap transfer, if they can vamp other targets it would make sense that they could cap transfer.


and ya i don't do many fights with capitals. I figured i would get blapped, but not in the first 15 seconds of the fight :P

done blockade in 23 mins with cruise golem ( included fly time ) buffer never dropped under 80% - its a snore mission now ;]
marVLs
#6777 - 2013-10-26 08:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: marVLs
Fozzie what about those not balanced ranges on marauders?
We have a goal to make them ships that are using short range weapons on long ranges, imo cool but only Paladin work here perfectly, it's very good balanced so pulses and tachyons have their usage Cool

I suggest changing bastion range bonus to: non stacking 20% optimal, 40% falloff

Thanks to that Vargur and Kronos will be closer to good balanced Paladin, because now they'r bad in that aspect (especially Vargur).

And we got Golem, as i suggested earlier change 10% velo bonus for cruise and torps for 20% velo bonus for torps only with non stacking 25% bastion velocity bonus.

Cruises don't need any buff on hull or bastion, they're veeeery good without them, but torps need badly at least that.
Another thing is changing TP bonus for exp radius bonus.
Firstly rest of marauders don't have ewar bonuses, secondly this will remove that baad TP juggling, micromanagement hell, and if anyone want they can still fit TP that won't stack its bonuses with that 25% exp radius reduction.
AskariRising
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#6778 - 2013-10-26 09:02:39 UTC
marVLs wrote:
Fozzie what about those not balanced ranges on marauders?
We have a goal to make them ships that are using short range weapons on long ranges, imo cool but only Paladin work here perfectly, it's very good balanced so pulses and tachyons have their usage Cool

I suggest changing bastion range bonus to: non stacking 20% optimal, 40% falloff

Thanks to that Vargur and Kronos will be closer to good balanced Paladin, because now they'r bad in that aspect (especially Vargur).

And we got Golem, as i suggested earlier change 10% velo bonus for cruise and torps for 20% velo bonus for torps only with non stacking 25% bastion velocity bonus.

Cruises don't need any buff on hull or bastion, they're veeeery good without them, but torps need badly at least that.
Another thing is changing TP bonus for exp radius bonus.
Firstly rest of marauders don't have ewar bonuses, secondly this will remove that baad TP juggling an micromanagement hell, and if anyone want they can still fit TP that won't stack its bonuses with that 25% exp radius reduction.


theyre reducing tp cycle times as part of the rebalancing
marVLs
#6779 - 2013-10-26 09:21:54 UTC  |  Edited by: marVLs
AskariRising wrote:

theyre reducing tp cycle times as part of the rebalancing


Yeah i know but still...
It was really frustrating on SiSi to use TPs, count salvos, salvage, manage drones in the same time when on rest of marauders You only do half of that. Before changes peps ware complaing about that badly so it will be nice to change that.
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#6780 - 2013-10-26 09:33:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Vinyl 41
marVLs wrote:
Fozzie what about those not balanced ranges on marauders?
We have a goal to make them ships that are using short range weapons on long ranges, imo cool but only Paladin work here perfectly, it's very good balanced so pulses and tachyons have their usage Cool

I suggest changing bastion range bonus to: non stacking 20% optimal, 40% falloff

Thanks to that Vargur and Kronos will be closer to good balanced Paladin, because now they'r bad in that aspect (especially Vargur).

And we got Golem, as i suggested earlier change 10% velo bonus for cruise and torps for 20% velo bonus for torps only with non stacking 25% bastion velocity bonus.

Cruises don't need any buff on hull or bastion, they're veeeery good without them, but torps need badly at least that.
Another thing is changing TP bonus for exp radius bonus. - TP bonus is better then this
Firstly rest of marauders don't have ewar bonuses, secondly this will remove that baad TP juggling an micromanagement hell, and if anyone want they can still fit TP that won't stack its bonuses with that 25% exp radius reduction.

pressing 3 buttons at 1 time is hardcore micromanaging >_> people were complaining that it was hard to keep tp synchronized with lauchers so you wouldnt have to wait 5 seconds for tps to finish cycle Cool now its fixed
with that speed bonus a golem with rages would get over 44km range - dont think ccp wants to add specialized bonuses to each weapon type