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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6681 - 2013-10-24 23:39:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Joe Risalo wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
your second assumption would be correct.
with a pith x-type XL shield booster, I am boosting the Golem for 26% of its shield HP per cycle at my skills.
Pretty epic.

So it's +137.5% shield boost with Bastion vs. the original +37.5%? Who cares about the TP and shield bonus of the Golem! Marauders-I for the win! I'll take the 107.5% and allocate the training elsewhere.

I don't even want to think about the 45% from a set of Crystal implants... Lol



They are separate bonuses.. so if your starting cap boost is 100%. You add a 37.5% you have 137% of your original boost. NOw.. you add a 100% bonus. You get 274%.


Doe snto matter the order.
You coudl do 100% apply the 100% bonus to 200% then add 37.5% and end up with the same 274% of what you started.


Add crytal set over that again in a composite way


Where are you getting the 74%?

Thought it would be 237.5% over standard?

Oh, and is it stacking penalized?

I'm guessing without bonus I would rep 5-6% with pith-x XL.
So, if i'm repping 26% with bastion and lvl 5 marauder (no implants I believe).

That's.....over 4x more rep than without any bonuses...... Maybe my math is wrong...



The ship bonus is never stack penaliozed.


Take for example you have a booster that boost 100 shield


Now you add the ship bonus of 37% so you boost 137 shield. Now you add 100% over that.. the bastion bonus. GOes to 274 shield.

The same way that you put a damage module that adds 10% of damage on a ship that has 50% damage bonus. THe final damage bonus is not 60%. Its 65%

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6682 - 2013-10-24 23:46:17 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
your second assumption would be correct.
with a pith x-type XL shield booster, I am boosting the Golem for 26% of its shield HP per cycle at my skills.
Pretty epic.

So it's +137.5% shield boost with Bastion vs. the original +37.5%? Who cares about the TP and shield bonus of the Golem! Marauders-I for the win! I'll take the 107.5% and allocate the training elsewhere.

I don't even want to think about the 45% from a set of Crystal implants... Lol



They are separate bonuses.. so if your starting cap boost is 100%. You add a 37.5% you have 137% of your original boost. NOw.. you add a 100% bonus. You get 274%.


Doe snto matter the order.
You coudl do 100% apply the 100% bonus to 200% then add 37.5% and end up with the same 274% of what you started.


Add crytal set over that again in a composite way


Where are you getting the 74%?

Thought it would be 237.5% over standard?

Oh, and is it stacking penalized?

I'm guessing without bonus I would rep 5-6% with pith-x XL.
So, if i'm repping 26% with bastion and lvl 5 marauder (no implants I believe).

That's.....over 4x more rep than without any bonuses...... Maybe my math is wrong...

You made the same mistake, it's multiplicative, not additive.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6683 - 2013-10-24 23:47:48 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
your second assumption would be correct.
with a pith x-type XL shield booster, I am boosting the Golem for 26% of its shield HP per cycle at my skills.
Pretty epic.

So it's +137.5% shield boost with Bastion vs. the original +37.5%? Who cares about the TP and shield bonus of the Golem! Marauders-I for the win! I'll take the 107.5% and allocate the training elsewhere.

I don't even want to think about the 45% from a set of Crystal implants... Lol



They are separate bonuses.. so if your starting cap boost is 100%. You add a 37.5% you have 137% of your original boost. NOw.. you add a 100% bonus. You get 274%.


Doe snto matter the order.
You coudl do 100% apply the 100% bonus to 200% then add 37.5% and end up with the same 274% of what you started.


Add crytal set over that again in a composite way


Where are you getting the 74%?

Thought it would be 237.5% over standard?

Oh, and is it stacking penalized?

I'm guessing without bonus I would rep 5-6% with pith-x XL.
So, if i'm repping 26% with bastion and lvl 5 marauder (no implants I believe).

That's.....over 4x more rep than without any bonuses...... Maybe my math is wrong...



The ship bonus is never stack penaliozed.


Take for example you have a booster that boost 100 shield


Now you add the ship bonus of 37% so you boost 137 shield. Now you add 100% over that.. the bastion bonus. GOes to 274 shield.

The same way that you put a damage module that adds 10% of damage on a ship that has 50% damage bonus. THe final damage bonus is not 60%. Its 65%


Huh?
I thought it was of the base shield boosts... Not factoring skills... not factoring other bonuses(unless stacking penalized).

Basically, the 100% bastion bonus only boosts the shield boost of the booster itself, and does not boost the shield boost bonus of the hull.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if I am, it seems odd.
That means you'd boost base shield boost stat, boost skill bonuses, boost hull bonus, and boost implant bonuses.

That's a lot of bonusing...
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6684 - 2013-10-24 23:50:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
your second assumption would be correct.
with a pith x-type XL shield booster, I am boosting the Golem for 26% of its shield HP per cycle at my skills.
Pretty epic.

So it's +137.5% shield boost with Bastion vs. the original +37.5%? Who cares about the TP and shield bonus of the Golem! Marauders-I for the win! I'll take the 107.5% and allocate the training elsewhere.

I don't even want to think about the 45% from a set of Crystal implants... Lol



They are separate bonuses.. so if your starting cap boost is 100%. You add a 37.5% you have 137% of your original boost. NOw.. you add a 100% bonus. You get 274%.


Doe snto matter the order.
You coudl do 100% apply the 100% bonus to 200% then add 37.5% and end up with the same 274% of what you started.


Add crytal set over that again in a composite way


Where are you getting the 74%?

Thought it would be 237.5% over standard?

Oh, and is it stacking penalized?

I'm guessing without bonus I would rep 5-6% with pith-x XL.
So, if i'm repping 26% with bastion and lvl 5 marauder (no implants I believe).

That's.....over 4x more rep than without any bonuses...... Maybe my math is wrong...

You made the same mistake, it's multiplicative, not additive.


I didn't add because I was determining how many times more rep I have.

i may be looking at it wrong, cause my basis if off of a nightmare boostin unbonused with the same shield booster.
However, the nightmare has more shield HP.
So, I would possibly boost 8-10% on the Golem without bastion and hull bonus.
That would mean 26% is fairly close to 237.5% more rep.... I guess.


correction, 137.5% more rep
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6685 - 2013-10-24 23:55:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Joe Risalo wrote:

I thought it was of the base shield boosts... Not factoring skills... not factoring other bonuses(unless stacking penalized).

Basically, the 100% bastion bonus only boosts the shield boost of the booster itself, and does not boost the shield boost bonus of the hull.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if I am, it seems odd.
That means you'd boost base shield boost stat, boost skill bonuses, boost hull bonus, and boost implant bonuses.

That's a lot of bonusing...



ALL bonuses in eve are multiplicative and are applied over an attribute. One after the other. THey are NEVER summed then applied. THeya re aLWAYS applied one by one.

That is the whole reason for stack nerfign exist. BEcause damage modules apply their effect over the value of the previous one already applied. That made in past stupid things like Armageddons with 8 heat sinks leading to 114% of damage bonus and 47% rof bonus. So they created stack nerfing.


The bastion bonusapplies over the shiled boost. PERDIO... What value is that? The shiled base value , after applied the ship hull bonus.

That is how EVERYTHING works in eve!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#6686 - 2013-10-24 23:57:51 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
That is how EVERYTHING works in eve!


It's true.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6687 - 2013-10-25 00:06:03 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
That is how EVERYTHING works in eve!


It's true.


Never set down to do the math on it, so that I did not know.
DSpite Culhach
#6688 - 2013-10-25 00:26:05 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
DSpite Culhach wrote:
So is the new tactic to drop into people running gate camps, turn on Bastion, activate a Target Spectrum Breaker and FoF them to death?


Lol, I can imagine the lulz and tears this would produce, bravo for a brilliant stratagy. Big smile



PLease try this useles tactic.. another free marauder kill for us or some other entity.


WTF people? Peopel are just hat blind to the realization that being static measn no one has to be inside your range if you are dangerous? That means that ALL fights that you effectively do fight... are the ones that you are sure to loose!


Well, it was just a thought of how funny it would look on say, a station camp, if a bunch of Marauders undocked and did this. For the record, to FOF Cruise missiles you are always "in range", especially with Bastion on, so I'm not sure I understand the comment regarding that part.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6689 - 2013-10-25 00:37:13 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Well, it was just a thought of how funny it would look on say, a station camp, if a bunch of Marauders undocked and did this. For the record, to FOF Cruise missiles you are always "in range", especially with Bastion on, so I'm not sure I understand the comment regarding that part.

It's still an interesting idea. Maybe you struck a nerve... Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#6690 - 2013-10-25 00:39:20 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
DSpite Culhach wrote:
So is the new tactic to drop into people running gate camps, turn on Bastion, activate a Target Spectrum Breaker and FoF them to death?


Lol, I can imagine the lulz and tears this would produce, bravo for a brilliant stratagy. Big smile



PLease try this useles tactic.. another free marauder kill for us or some other entity.


WTF people? Peopel are just hat blind to the realization that being static measn no one has to be inside your range if you are dangerous? That means that ALL fights that you effectively do fight... are the ones that you are sure to loose!


adapte...

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6691 - 2013-10-25 01:09:02 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Well, it was just a thought of how funny it would look on say, a station camp, if a bunch of Marauders undocked and did this. For the record, to FOF Cruise missiles you are always "in range", especially with Bastion on, so I'm not sure I understand the comment regarding that part.

It's still an interesting idea. Maybe you struck a nerve... Lol



Nerrve? maybe you shoudl do your homework... we do not camp in UMAD ( except camping for a specific target that we followe dinto a system and we know it will come out trough that gate).




It sjut hat the idea is stupid and anyoen that tries it will die! And the more marauders that die in such stupid ways, the less of them we will have to hunt.


And no you cannot adapt to the fact that when you cannot move, the enemy may at any time just ignore you and get out of there.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6692 - 2013-10-25 01:11:41 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
DSpite Culhach wrote:
So is the new tactic to drop into people running gate camps, turn on Bastion, activate a Target Spectrum Breaker and FoF them to death?


Lol, I can imagine the lulz and tears this would produce, bravo for a brilliant stratagy. Big smile



PLease try this useles tactic.. another free marauder kill for us or some other entity.


WTF people? Peopel are just hat blind to the realization that being static measn no one has to be inside your range if you are dangerous? That means that ALL fights that you effectively do fight... are the ones that you are sure to loose!


Well, it was just a thought of how funny it would look on say, a station camp, if a bunch of Marauders undocked and did this. For the record, to FOF Cruise missiles you are always "in range", especially with Bastion on, so I'm not sure I understand the comment regarding that part.



The ECM woudl mean nothing. PEopel would not stay within its pathetic range. And your marauder would STILL DIE!!!


Your uber huge tank will not save you! You will just die a little bit later.


Want to break a gate camp? Do it the proper way, with a smart team with remote repair, or nano ships, or e war and reasonable firepower.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
DSpite Culhach
#6693 - 2013-10-25 01:59:28 UTC  |  Edited by: DSpite Culhach
Kagura Nikon wrote:
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
DSpite Culhach wrote:
So is the new tactic to drop into people running gate camps, turn on Bastion, activate a Target Spectrum Breaker and FoF them to death?


Lol, I can imagine the lulz and tears this would produce, bravo for a brilliant stratagy. Big smile



PLease try this useles tactic.. another free marauder kill for us or some other entity.


WTF people? Peopel are just hat blind to the realization that being static measn no one has to be inside your range if you are dangerous? That means that ALL fights that you effectively do fight... are the ones that you are sure to loose!


Well, it was just a thought of how funny it would look on say, a station camp, if a bunch of Marauders undocked and did this. For the record, to FOF Cruise missiles you are always "in range", especially with Bastion on, so I'm not sure I understand the comment regarding that part.



The ECM woudl mean nothing. PEopel would not stay within its pathetic range. And your marauder would STILL DIE!!!


Your uber huge tank will not save you! You will just die a little bit later.


Want to break a gate camp? Do it the proper way, with a smart team with remote repair, or nano ships, or e war and reasonable firepower.


Ok ... err, Spectrum Target Breaker does not have "range", it just break people target lock on you. My general gut feeling is that if people can't target you at ANY range, it does in fact the opposite of "die faster".

You are an angry angry person and you need to lighten up.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6694 - 2013-10-25 02:06:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Nerrve? maybe you shoudl do your homework... we do not camp in UMAD ( except camping for a specific target that we followe dinto a system and we know it will come out trough that gate).

< yawn > ...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Battle Cube
Cube Collective
#6695 - 2013-10-25 04:24:40 UTC
So in what situation/s is the marauder better than any other ship, given their massive skill and isk requirements?

What are they not only capable of doing, but what do they Excel at?

No reason to use them over pirate or even tech 1 as far as i see.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6696 - 2013-10-25 04:31:43 UTC
Battle Cube wrote:
So in what situation/s is the marauder better than any other ship, given their massive skill and isk requirements? What are they not only capable of doing, but what do they Excel at? No reason to use them over pirate or even tech 1 as far as i see.

Marauders are now the best at active tanking, bar none. I think it remains to see how effective they'll be missions and incursions. As it now stands, from a purely DPS standpoint they're probably on par with most Faction battleships, above T1s but below Pirate battleships.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6697 - 2013-10-25 04:35:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Battle Cube wrote:
So in what situation/s is the marauder better than any other ship, given their massive skill and isk requirements?

What are they not only capable of doing, but what do they Excel at?

No reason to use them over pirate or even tech 1 as far as i see.


I don't think it's a case of excelling with marauders.
I think it's more of a case in efficiency.
With other bs's you have come back to salvage, and you burn more ammo.
Marauders have a bit lower dps than pirate, but they can salvage on the go, use less ammo, and with bastion, there's no warping out in pve cause you're taking too much damage.
All this equates to higher Isk/hour.
Battle Cube
Cube Collective
#6698 - 2013-10-25 04:42:54 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Battle Cube wrote:
So in what situation/s is the marauder better than any other ship, given their massive skill and isk requirements? What are they not only capable of doing, but what do they Excel at? No reason to use them over pirate or even tech 1 as far as i see.

Marauders are now the best at active tanking, bar none. I think it remains to see how effective they'll be missions and incursions. As it now stands, from a purely DPS standpoint they're probably on par with most Faction battleships, above T1s but below Pirate battleships.


problem is, having 1 quality that is better does not mean its function is superior. Certainly useless in incursions (even if it is possible to use them, it is inefficient for reasons explained a thousand times here) and they are less efficient in L4s then pirate

Its like.... there are different kinds of axes. Some are sharp, some are shiney, some are light.

The lightest axe will be the easiest to weild, but if it shatters on impact it will be useless compared to a heavy one.
Battle Cube
Cube Collective
#6699 - 2013-10-25 04:43:50 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Battle Cube wrote:
So in what situation/s is the marauder better than any other ship, given their massive skill and isk requirements?

What are they not only capable of doing, but what do they Excel at?

No reason to use them over pirate or even tech 1 as far as i see.


I don't think it's a case of excelling with marauders.
I think it's more of a case in efficiency.
With other bs's you have come back to salvage, and you burn more ammo.
Marauders have a bit lower dps than pirate, but they can salvage on the go, use less ammo, and with bastion, there's no warping out in pve cause you're taking too much damage.
All this equates to higher Isk/hour.


with the new salvage module there is no reason to use the marauders tractor bonus. Ammo? yeah thats not a good enough reason.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6700 - 2013-10-25 04:47:12 UTC
Battle Cube wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Battle Cube wrote:
So in what situation/s is the marauder better than any other ship, given their massive skill and isk requirements?

What are they not only capable of doing, but what do they Excel at?

No reason to use them over pirate or even tech 1 as far as i see.


I don't think it's a case of excelling with marauders.
I think it's more of a case in efficiency.
With other bs's you have come back to salvage, and you burn more ammo.
Marauders have a bit lower dps than pirate, but they can salvage on the go, use less ammo, and with bastion, there's no warping out in pve cause you're taking too much damage.
All this equates to higher Isk/hour.


with the new salvage module there is no reason to use the marauders tractor bonus. Ammo? yeah thats not a good enough reason.


It's a tractor module, not salvage, and it helps marauders more than any other ship.. Assuming it has good range