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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1901 - 2013-10-23 22:56:48 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
And this is the point, for those too thick headed to get it. The high DPS blaster fits of a covert ops proteus is balanced by its need to be dry humping the target to apply it.

It is also interesting to point out that while you can make a workable sentry proteus fit (albeit with only 4 sentries) you cannot do so and also use the covert ops subsystem.

The point is that blasters don't have any problem melting a ship in tiny pieces as long as it can go into scram range.

The second point is that heavy drones and sentries require the same tackling as blasters to apply any meaningful dps, and even then real dps might not be as high as paper dps.

A Stratios won't have any more actual dps than a cloaky Proteus. That is the point I'm making for pages on this thread. And yet, cloaky Proteus are a rarity mostly sticking to cloaky hot drop and wormholes. I bet the Stratios will not be more popular after the initial "new shiny" effect.

And price compared to a Proteus is irrelevant. People roam in combat T3 for years and never needed a cloak to do it. The Stratios will still cost more than any T1 ship and will be among the most expensive cruisers. At this level, price is not a balancing factor.


Wow,

I can see why you have talked for pages, its like trying to talk to a wall. Ok you win.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1902 - 2013-10-24 09:23:51 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Wow,

I can see why you have talked for pages, its like trying to talk to a wall. Ok you win.

I'm open to arguments, not fantasy and beliefs.

People talk here like if drones suddenly became the ultimate weapon of doom whereas though the paper numbers they show can be very high they have so huge drawbacks it's never that simple. And people here have a real phobia with cloaky gank ship whereas they existed for years without anyone noticing them ; it's a real hysteria.
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#1903 - 2013-10-24 11:12:06 UTC
Any new iterations of these ships? They seem to be oriented towards lasers and drones, but I don't see any laser bonuses...
Liesje Allister
Doomheim
#1904 - 2013-10-24 12:26:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Liesje Allister
Quote:
Stratios
Amarr Cruiser skill bonus per level:
4% bonus to armor resistances

Gallente Cruiser skill bonus per level:
10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints

Role Bonus:
50% reduction in Medium Energy Turret capcitor need
37.5% increased strength for scan probes
+5 virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

from sisi

The cruiser has lost its cloak bonus, which is a good thing on my opinion.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1905 - 2013-10-24 12:31:19 UTC
The laser "focus" seems to be a bit of a joke. The ships will be fine with any weapon system put on them, but lasers needed a 50% cap reduction to not kill the ships ability to use them.

The reason, as it would seem, that lasers were even chosen as a "focus" for the ship is exclusively due to there charge size.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Lilliana Stelles
#1906 - 2013-10-24 12:42:36 UTC
Liesje Allister wrote:
Quote:
Stratios
Amarr Cruiser skill bonus per level:
4% bonus to armor resistances

Gallente Cruiser skill bonus per level:
10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints

Role Bonus:
50% reduction in Medium Energy Turret capcitor need
37.5% increased strength for scan probes
+5 virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

from sisi

The cruiser has lost its cloak bonus, which is a good thing on my opinion.


It can still fit the covops cloak, it just takes a full quarter of the ships CPU.

Not a forum alt. 
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1907 - 2013-10-24 12:51:03 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Rise
Alright, after a lot of feedback and discussion I'm going to share what will likely be the last set of tweaks to the Stratios and Astero before launch.

We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100mb/s and the drone bay to 400m3.

The ship will still have very high damage potential and will certainly still be very powerful overall.

This also makes me feel better about some other small changes that improve the ship, so we'll also be increasing the virus strength bonus to +10 and changing the laser cap use bonus to a medium energy turret optimal range bonus of 50%. We will also extend the virus strength bonus to the Astero.

Please post with feedback, but keep in mind that these changes are made after processing tons of feedback from the forums, my visit to EVE Vegas and a lot of internal discussion.

Thanks

@ccp_rise
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1908 - 2013-10-24 12:53:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
CCP Rise wrote:

This also makes me feel better about some other small changes that improve the ship, so we'll also be increasing the virus strength bonus to +10 and changing the laser cap use bonus to a medium energy turret optimal range bonus of 50%. We will also extend the virus strength bonus to the Astero.

Thanks

This is a mistake. These already annihilate Covert Ops ships, this is just the final nail in the coffin.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1909 - 2013-10-24 12:54:37 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright, after a lot of feedback and discussion I'm going to share what will likely be the last set of tweaks to the Stratios and Astero before launch.

We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100m3 and the drone bay to 400m3.

The ship will still have very high damage potential and will certainly still be very powerful overall.

This also makes me feel better about some other small changes that improve the ship, so we'll also be increasing the virus strength bonus to +10 and changing the laser cap use bonus to a medium energy turret optimal range bonus of 50%. We will also extend the virus strength bonus to the Astero.

Please post with feedback, but keep in mind that these changes are made after processing tons of feedback from the forums, my visit to EVE Vegas and a lot of internal discussion.

Thanks


good changes but you are still missing a major one here that i would like addressed is why being droneboats do they not have the -1 slot that ALL other droneboats in the game get???

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1910 - 2013-10-24 12:56:03 UTC
I know there was some voices (yours especially Omnathious) who preferred the 5 virus strength version, but we talked about it quite a bit and the intended trade off with cov ops wasn't really needed because cov ops aren't built around a hacking role. They are meant more as probers and intel gatherers rather than hacking ships, so that means we can boost the SOE ships' roles as explorers without causing problems.

I should also add that the overwhelming majority of people really wanted to see it go to 10 strength.

@ccp_rise
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1911 - 2013-10-24 12:56:41 UTC
Harvey James wrote:


good changes but you are still missing a major one here that i would like addressed is why being droneboats do they not have the -1 slot that ALL other droneboats in the game get???


Because the Sisters are special.


Alternatively, because he's the game designer and can choose to ignore basic tenets of EVE ship design at will.


I think I like the first answer better, though.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Koban Agalder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1912 - 2013-10-24 12:57:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Koban Agalder
CCP Rise wrote:


We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100m3 and the drone bay to 400m3.


Thanks

Bye, bye Stratios ;( It's kinda funny that dedicated drone boat cannot deploy full flight of drones.

James Arget for CSM 8! http://csm.fcftw.org 
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1913 - 2013-10-24 12:58:28 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Koban Agalder wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100m3 and the drone bay to 400m3.


Thanks

Bye, bye Stratios ;(


If you're dim enough to think this makes it non-viable, that's fine. Means more of them to fly for me.

e: Four Ogre II, no damage mod, still matches anything but the covert blaster proteus for DPS output amongst cloaked cruisers. Go the shield tanked gank route and run lasers and you're pushing towards 800 DPS again. The thing is still really good.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1914 - 2013-10-24 13:02:12 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Koban Agalder wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100m3 and the drone bay to 400m3.


Thanks

Bye, bye Stratios ;(


If you're dim enough to think this makes it non-viable, that's fine. Means more of them to fly for me.

Is it still viable to do its intended function as a solo 6/10 runner?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1915 - 2013-10-24 13:04:03 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I know there was some voices (yours especially Omnathious) who preferred the 5 virus strength version, but we talked about it quite a bit and the intended trade off with cov ops wasn't really needed because cov ops aren't built around a hacking role. They are meant more as probers and intel gatherers rather than hacking ships, so that means we can boost the SOE ships' roles as explorers without causing problems.

I should also add that the overwhelming majority of people really wanted to see it go to 10 strength.

Well, I guess I will just have to go with it then. I don't think it was needed, but then again it would seem that I have a skewed ability to do the hacking mini game.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1916 - 2013-10-24 13:05:49 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Koban Agalder wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100m3 and the drone bay to 400m3.


Thanks

Bye, bye Stratios ;(


If you're dim enough to think this makes it non-viable, that's fine. Means more of them to fly for me.

Is it still viable to do its intended function as a solo 6/10 runner?


I admit that I'm not familiar with the DPS requirements of a 6/10. I'd be surprised if this breaks the bank though.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Witchking Angmar
Perkele.
#1917 - 2013-10-24 13:06:39 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Koban Agalder wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100m3 and the drone bay to 400m3.


Thanks

Bye, bye Stratios ;(


If you're dim enough to think this makes it non-viable, that's fine. Means more of them to fly for me.

Is it still viable to do its intended function as a solo 6/10 runner?


With three sentries? Not really.

Give it back the 125 bandwidth and reduce the damage bonus instead.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1918 - 2013-10-24 13:08:01 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
mynnna wrote:

If you're dim enough to think this makes it non-viable, that's fine. Means more of them to fly for me.

Is it still viable to do its intended function as a solo 6/10 runner?


I admit that I'm not familiar with the DPS requirements of a 6/10. I'd be surprised if this breaks the bank though.

On a 2 DDA setup, this will cause it to lose about 130 DPS ( 1 Garde II)

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Witchking Angmar
Perkele.
#1919 - 2013-10-24 13:09:12 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100m3 and the drone bay to 400m3.

Drone bandwidth is measured in Mb/s.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1920 - 2013-10-24 13:11:12 UTC
Witchking Angmar wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100m3 and the drone bay to 400m3.

Drone bandwidth is measured in Mb/s.


true... Rise sort out all these typos ... there is far too many Smile

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using