Player Features and Ideas Discussion

but I have every bs 5 and marauders 5. I DESERVE an I win button!

You mean, just like the HACs can defeat their T1 coutnerpart the absolute majority of time?


There is nothgin wrong on t2 beign stronger. And they should be. As long as they are not vaqslty stronger against ALL

Which as it turns out isnt a nerf but a big boost in capability.

Iteration 3 was "nerf lite" compared to Iteration 1.

aa i was under the impression that CCP employees were PAID to do their job. If I proposed to my boss doing a horrible work just because that way woudl be easier.. I would loose my job...

Except that a lot of pvp people also complained about it. Anybody with a clue about pvp should realize that the only real application where the hulls would be worth the price tag is jumping into a low sec gate camp or station games, where the shield marauders are miles better by her far higher tanking numbers, by ASBs, being far less affected by neuting and pushing out more dps. The armor marauders without the web bonus have no place in the meta game here. This is why pvp players complained. Beside the reason why Inc players use them is because most that organize and put together fleet concepts know ships fairly well and how to utilize her strengths, and they all will drop marauders with the changes, because they become garbage outside of mjd and bastion use(both completely useless in RR environments). They are even a lot worse for PVE after the changes, at least to people that actually utilized them properly, because they have no use for mjd, no use for bastion and the speed, dps and web nerf really hurts them.



Guess what people complained about the speed, agility, drones and EHP? Exactly the people that actually fly marauders instead of the guys that post that they need zero speed because of mjd and a single set of light drones is enough because they can't figure out how to utilize the drone bay halve way decent.

That brings me back to my question, that I raised a couple of times so far, for the simply reason that I still have zero use for marauders with the changes:

Here's another idea for Marauders. I think this is the best concept I've come up with yet, because it's relatively simple and allows Marauders to be used in either a short or long-range capacity.

• All original bonuses (including webs), slightly increased sensor strength
• Partial T2 resists, revised specifications and new MJD bonuses in Iteration-3
• Bastion provides the shield/armor/hull resistances (only) and a 25% reduction in capacitor use for MWD (none of this stationary crap). When active, optimal/falloff and missile flight time are reduced by 25%. No EM warfare immunity.

What you end up with is a class with improved (but not obscene) tanking, and has penalties for both movement and remaining stationary. Bastion thus becomes a double-edged sword: When stationary, it provides more tank but at the expense of weapons effectiveness. When moving, MWD is more efficient - but this negates the tank to some extent and the extra speed is again needed to compensate for reduced weapons range.

It would be nice for a change to actually "fly" some of these ships (as opposed to "turtling" them).

Tried to mean this at least 5 times. Unfortunately, people find "turtling" or "sitting" more interesting than flying the ship actually. I never be able to understand this. I feel like I am seen as either a moron within the crowd, or just someone without brain.

- People will tell you "you won't have to fit in that way in order to do missions" - true. The only thing is, with the new iteration there is simply nothing new or "interesting" for me. I can do this already with sentry drone sniper BS. With 100km range, most of the npcs' ewars won't land on you anyway, which will also make ewar immunity useless in pve.

- People will tell you "this is interesting". I see nothing interesting for pve. Sitting and shooting? The big, happy uncle is upgrading your "F" key to "F1" ! Happy new year!

- People will tell you "you will have much better tank" - I have never needed that much tank in pve anyway, why add more? Unless, however, if ccp plans to put harder missions with greatly increased npc dps. Or, escalating lvl4 missions to give this buffed tanking a reason.

- People will tell you to use beam structure. So, why I trained for Marauder? How much cargo space that structure will take? Will it improve my tractor job? Will I have enough space to get all the loot after fitting this structure? Marauder's tractor beam range bonus is what was outdated at first place. I didn't see this was adressed. Still...

And so on...

Eh, ignore that post. Laziness and lack of attention led to stupidity an answer that was not directly related to the post I quoted.

I don't really know anybody that currently uses marauders in a halve decent way that likes the changes, while you hear a crap load of useless feedback for people that are novice to the ship class or don't fly them at all.

You can see this in the arguments:

- A marauder got issues tanking L4 or higher level pve content, what is nonsense for L4(they can run with 2-3 slot tank) and they are actually extreme good in utilizing RR for bigger stuff.
- A marauder can active tank VGs, again a useless ability for people actually fly in marauder gangs in Incs, because they can spider tank them already while not wasting slots on active tank and can use tracking links.
- A marauder can do L5, again a Marauder can do them already if you pair it up with a logi(that saves you the cap booster and makes it super easy to tank by the split agro). Then again sentry carriers are better at it already.
- A marauder can solo C4 or even C5, same stuff as for L5 applies here.
- A marauder can do 10/10, then again a ship with a small sig is mostly suited better for thanking them, reaching them(if not all your locals are baby blue) and got a better chance to get back with the loot.
- A marauder will be very good for undock pvp and busting gate camps, yes I even agree here, but it is very predictable, similar as if you see a hype or maelstrom doing the same. Also it is very small niche application for pvp at best and the armor marauders, that lose the web bonuses will be far worse at it, because they offer a lot less tank(after drugs, asbs, links) while offer nothing interesting in return.
- They would be good as sniper BS, while people actually do pvp with sniper setups complain since ages that you will be probed out quicker then you can align in a BS, leave alone doing the same to a BS that sits there for a hole minute. If you don't use bastion, there is hardly any point why not to use a faction BS that is cheaper, got the higher mobility and in some cases also the better damage output.
- They would be generally good with bastion and mjd in pvp, what is nonsense. The arena where a active tank would matter is low sec and you have scrams on nearly every hull, rendering the mjd pointless, for bigger stuff in 0.0 the inability to get remote rep combined with the often bigger gangs means that active tank will not save you and the lack of mobility make you a easy target in a billion isk BS.


On the flip site you have:

- A fairly real drone bandwidth, speed and web nerf, that reduces the potential for nearly any application, for anybody that run with mwd and max gank already faster than the new bastion fittings for L4 and if you do Incs or use RR bastion and mjd offers nothing.
- A fairly big nerf to the Kronos and Paladin in specific pvp scenarios, where they are less obvious than the Vindicator and also can add utility like neuts, RR and smart bombs, what the Vindicator can't(it is a very one dimensional web and shoot the primary kind of ship).
- A dev that completely ignores any kind of flaw on the current marauders that actually would need addressing(since years), while applying a "one size, suits all" change that gives them a new niche while making them pointless for most of her old applications:

-> the Kronos needs a bigger drone bay and 5 sentry's since like 2007 and a sentry optimal/tracking bonus would finally make the hull more a fleshed out med range platform compared to the vindicator or navy mega
-> the Vargur isn't a bad ship, it is just worse in nearly every aspect compared to the mach, a optimal bonus would make it better with artillery at medium range, combined with a mwd cap use bonus(that every marauder should have) it would be more appealing if you do a lot of repositioning on the grid to for proper artillery use
-> the Golem really needs more speed(instead of less, what is hilarious bad) and a torpedo explosion velocity bonus(yes torps only) to become useful as the the dedicated torpedo platform that it used to be, again higher mobility and mwd cap use bonus makes it fairly different compared to the CNR and other missile platforms and a outstanding ship in her niche
- the Paladin is mostly fine, it is the best marauder, it could use a tracking bonus, because my results when I move around in my navy Apoc(also mwd fitted) are a lot better, regarding hitting stuff while being on the move

I could even live with the marauders as they are, since they are a lot more useful to me this way, but why not simply add a 2. marauder line. People that like the bastion idea get something out of it, people that don't got any use for it will still be able to fly at least the same ships they use since years.