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Dev Blog: Player Owned Customs offices in Hi-Sec

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#501 - 2013-10-19 10:52:51 UTC
And what about looking at null sec, I have come across so many POCO's owned by alliances that held the system many months ago, one recently which had 4 different alliances holding the system after the POCO owner, can CCP change the null sec rules so that if the sov holder is different to the owner of the POCO and the POCO was a previous sov holder then the limitation on putting a command centre down is removed. This opens up additional PI opportunities for those of us that like to be a bit more adventurous...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Beta Maoye
#502 - 2013-10-19 15:51:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Beta Maoye
Deleted
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#503 - 2013-10-19 16:32:33 UTC
Beta Maoye wrote:
The tax rate of high sec POCO has to be monitored after implementation. If average tax rate is much higher than 5%, there is something wrong about the initial assumption. The high sec POCO mechanism might need to be reviewed.



And why would there be something wrong?

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#504 - 2013-10-19 16:51:37 UTC
Beta Maoye wrote:
The tax rate of high sec POCO has to be monitored after implementation. If average tax rate is much higher than 5%, there is something wrong about the initial assumption. The high sec POCO mechanism might need to be reviewed.

An incorrect assumption? No way...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Beta Maoye
#505 - 2013-10-19 17:12:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Beta Maoye
Deleted
J'mee Leggs
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#506 - 2013-10-20 00:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: J'mee Leggs
Confirming that RvB is eagerly awaiting POCOs. Cool
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#507 - 2013-10-21 07:20:47 UTC
Kropotkin wrote:
Mangala Solaris wrote:
If no one puts up a POCO, nothing is stopping YOU from doing it.

(1) NPC corp membership (2) Ever hear the word, "Poverty"?

even better the phrase "co's are harder to kill than a small offline pos"
Kazaam Richtofen Richthofen
Spinning Arms
#508 - 2013-10-21 12:56:47 UTC
This is just wonderful. First CCP times the ice so that the supply is somewhat limited with all the BOTS out there exactly when it spawns, greatly helping small corps trying to keep up a POS. Game time limiting.

Now CCP yanks the offices so that the large and null-sec corps will be able to further bleed the small corps into nonexistence since they won't be able to afford the PI anymore, or have an adequate supply of PI to make their fuel depending on which corp is war'ing which corp to take the POCO.

We had 1 person (3 characters) doing the PI, 2 people & alts (alternate timezones) trying to get ice (almost mission impossible now), and barely scraping by this way. With this change doubtful that small corps like ours will be in existence much longer. Is this really what CCP wanted? Starting to think so with all of these changes being focused more towards the larger corps.

Here's an idea CCP, why not make it so you have to have at least 100 people in your corp to have a POS or do PI, sounds like you don't like the smaller corps anyway, focus the game around the corps you like, to heck with the others / players who also pay for the game.

What were you thinking? Really? What brain-child came up with this?

If you take the offices and make them POCO's, at least give us the ice back because we will then have to sell 1/2 of it to get the PI we need (which we don't do now)......
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#509 - 2013-10-21 13:11:17 UTC
Kazaam Richtofen Richthofen wrote:
This is just wonderful...


I'm sorry your dead-end small hisec corp playstyle is a cancer on this game and needs to be excised...no wait, I'm not.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Kazaam Richtofen Richthofen
Spinning Arms
#510 - 2013-10-21 13:14:28 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Kazaam Richtofen Richthofen wrote:
This is just wonderful...


I'm sorry your dead-end small hisec corp playstyle is a cancer on this game and needs to be excised...no wait, I'm not.




LOL your 1 person Jita corp probably rocks as well.....

Play the game the way you like it, we play the way we like it, the only cancer consists of forum trolls....
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#511 - 2013-10-21 13:23:04 UTC
Except CCP didn't feel the need to cull my entire demographic as a malignancy on the health of Eve as a whole.

WEIRD.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#512 - 2013-10-21 13:35:29 UTC
:dunked:

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#513 - 2013-10-22 01:28:04 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Except CCP didn't feel the need to cull my entire demographic as a malignancy on the health of Eve as a whole.

WEIRD.

Nah, it's ok. They leave lots of stuff in ...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
davolor
Flanders Investment and Trade
#514 - 2013-10-22 12:14:58 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Guess I might as well delete my PI now...


I agree. Big corps will be able to lock everyone out with 100% tax rate. This takes away everything that was so unique about PI and takes it away for people that like to play eve in a casual manner.

This forces people to join a big alliances or has a big risk to even further monopolise planetary commodities.

And how long will the new skill be even worth it? What good is a 4-5% tax cut if the corp taxes are set on 100%... By the way this 100% happens all the time.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#515 - 2013-10-22 16:47:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
It's just one more step to creating the "Pangalactic Blue Mega-Donut"... everyone will be blue to themselves and each other, just to avoid taxes and warfare, and we'll all be one big symbiotic organism floating in the sewage of EVE looking for a reason to resub...

... thus, we are reminded of that iconic game sign, flashing brightly and prophetically to us from the history of pinball machines...

GAME OVER

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#516 - 2013-10-24 07:23:29 UTC
I dont believe that all the highsec co's will get taken over by alliances, to plant that many would req such an investment in time killing interbus ones and building poco ones that it just doesnt seem likely to happen. The worst part of it is that the single biggest reason to build a poco is reducing your own tax esp since you dont truly know how much usage a planet gets to know what the profits would be long term. The problem is even if the highsec poco had 1% tax on it people would have to pay more than at a npc one. Sure you would likely keep your current "customers" on that planet but you would not have any new ones building PI on that planet because it would be better for them to always go to an npc one. They really should give so kind of discount for the taxes for a poco vs a npc one highsec or not.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#517 - 2013-10-25 22:36:53 UTC
Omega Flames wrote:
I dont believe that all the highsec co's will get taken over by alliances, to plant that many would req such an investment in time killing interbus ones and building poco ones that it just doesnt seem likely to happen. The worst part of it is that the single biggest reason to build a poco is reducing your own tax esp since you dont truly know how much usage a planet gets to know what the profits would be long term. The problem is even if the highsec poco had 1% tax on it people would have to pay more than at a npc one. Sure you would likely keep your current "customers" on that planet but you would not have any new ones building PI on that planet because it would be better for them to always go to an npc one. They really should give so kind of discount for the taxes for a poco vs a npc one highsec or not.

How far are you willing to go to avoid some percent of tax? You will have to redo the planet of course, and in the future the planet you move to may also have another few percent of tax on it.

Or, if it's a really far away planet, it might have the poco shot up. And it's about 100mil to put up a poco.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#518 - 2013-10-26 02:03:11 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Omega Flames wrote:
I dont believe that all the highsec co's will get taken over by alliances, to plant that many would req such an investment in time killing interbus ones and building poco ones that it just doesnt seem likely to happen. The worst part of it is that the single biggest reason to build a poco is reducing your own tax esp since you dont truly know how much usage a planet gets to know what the profits would be long term. The problem is even if the highsec poco had 1% tax on it people would have to pay more than at a npc one. Sure you would likely keep your current "customers" on that planet but you would not have any new ones building PI on that planet because it would be better for them to always go to an npc one. They really should give so kind of discount for the taxes for a poco vs a npc one highsec or not.

How far are you willing to go to avoid some percent of tax? You will have to redo the planet of course, and in the future the planet you move to may also have another few percent of tax on it.

Or, if it's a really far away planet, it might have the poco shot up. And it's about 100mil to put up a poco.

i dont do highsec PI so it doesnt affect me personally. However jita has been the default go to trade hub for a long time even with the local hubs not being too far off on the jita price and sometimes those trade hubs are actually cheaper. people were quite willing to take the time and isk to put up poco's in low sec and it was 17% so if a highsec poco had even just 5% tax thats 10-15% total (half of the P2 and higher are not profitable to make at even just 10% tax), id say quite a few would be willing to move esp since scouting out a new npc co only involves just jumping in a newb ship or shuttle and jumping a couple of systems in literally any direction. If you are already 5+ jumps from a trade/mission hub then you are pretty unlikely to get anyone to take down the npc co, at least imo and so wouldnt have to move anyway. The only way i think highsec will be filled with poco's is if someone goes around and kills literally all the npc co's....and we all know how boring structure shoots are. All in all in it's current form I think highsec poco's are just horribly implemented.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#519 - 2013-10-26 05:59:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Omega Flames wrote:
The only way i think highsec will be filled with poco's is if someone goes around and kills literally all the npc co's....and we all know how boring structure shoots are. All in all in it's current form I think highsec poco's are just horribly implemented.

What if pocos are just destroyed, who would set up new ones if they weren't useing the planet a lot. If the planet was used a lot, well it's ripe to be taken over.

Think about what information is revealed by someone setting up a poco in an empty slot

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#520 - 2013-10-26 12:51:03 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Omega Flames wrote:
The only way i think highsec will be filled with poco's is if someone goes around and kills literally all the npc co's....and we all know how boring structure shoots are. All in all in it's current form I think highsec poco's are just horribly implemented.

What if pocos are just destroyed, who would set up new ones if they weren't useing the planet a lot. If the planet was used a lot, well it's ripe to be taken over.

Think about what information is revealed by someone setting up a poco in an empty slot

1. You are assuming that someone is going to go out and destroy ALL the npc co's. As I said we all know how boring structure shoots are so I just don't think anyone (not even goonswarm) is going to spend the time killing every single npc co in highsec. So your "what if pocos are just destroyed" statement is irrelevant. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/planets as you can see that is ALOT of planets in highsec.

2. It is not very easy to tell if a planet is used alot to know whether or not it is worth the tax income from others using that planet (remember you can not actually save yourself any isk at all by taking down a highsec npc co and putting up a poco, your ONLY possible profit can come from others using that planet). You can to an extent tell if someone has built alot of structures on that planet but you can not tell how often they use those structures or if they are even still doing PI. How then can you tell how much taxes a planet can make you? Simple, you can't. Who wants to invest 100 mil on a planet that might take 6 months or longer to even break even on? Me personally if I was doing highsec PI and someone killed off the npc co and no one put up a new one then I'd just move my operations to a new planet, the high cost of a poco would simply not be worth it imo since the moment I put up a poco I can guarantee that anyone who is looking to get into PI is going to NOT setup on my planet simply because a npc co is cheaper 100% of the time.