Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I can relate to what your saying but I also have to be honest that so far Nikk's and Teckos's idea of removing local and then doing something to cloaked ships has been by far the best one there has been.

All other ideas simply destroys cloaked ships more or less completely (though I realy don't care about it anymore but still) or make cloaked ships overpowered.

The current mechamics are flawed and something needs to be done but seems CCP is more interested in making silly modules that poke towers than actualy fixing the game more. Also I'm still waiting for the complains from carrier pilots when they realize how bad the ceptors will be next month

I got the perfect thing, how about special probs working in combination the covop ships with a active medium mod's that links all of the ships with this active mod to combined their strength to collectively find afk cloaky ships !!!

Psychological PvP is not for everyone.

Excatly, the AFK cloaker wins if he causes the residents of that system to dock up. If they move next door or start working in groups and keep on utilizing their space, they win. Ships don't necessarily have to die for one side to win. Even in actual combat, if the opponent stands down without a fight...you win. Granted blowing stuff up is fun and probably the best form of PvP, but it is not the only way to PvP.

Thank you for this post. Don't forget that the intel aspect of local is also replaced by a new mechanic...well at least that is my preferred idea. I think Nikk would like it too. I think many of the people who are "pro-AFK cloaking" (note that is really not accurate, but it is a shorter label than "Nerf local's intel, come up with a new intel mechanism, and also nerf cloaks") would also consider such an approach.

And if null sec income needed even more of a boost to income to offset the increased risk, I'd be fine with that too. I think null should generate more income than high sec, TBPH. And that you can earn as much or even more in high sec is an indicator there is not enough risk in null at the moment. And one of the primary ways null sec PvE pilots attenuate risk is to use local. Combine local with a scout and it is very effective at reducing risk to near zero.

I continue to maintain that the cloak is not the flaw because the dps and tank are naturally weak. The flaw is the cyno fitted to that cloaked ship. Whether covert or not, the cloaked ship with a cyno projects immense power with impunity across an entire region or constellation. If the cloaked ship could not fit a cyno, I would see no issue with cloaks or afk cloaks.

A fleet can counter a roaming fleet (cloaky or not) directly or with a gate camp. A few hunters can chase away a non-cloaky solo ship. But who can counter a cloaky cyno? Hunters can't chase it and fleets can't afford to waste their time camping it. I can handle a solo bomber if it does not have a cyno. Multiple pvp corps could not handle the solo stealth bomber if his alliance was blobbing through his cyno.

Local is an interesting side discussion with indirect correlation but the real issue is the cyno. Without it, no one would have ANY issue with the AFK cloaky. NO ONE.

Reference presented for context:

Hot Dropping: Bridging is intended to bypass reinforced blockades and travel time. Here, it has been fine tuned to avoid advertising the presence of a fleet to the free intel tool as well by delaying the easily recognizable population spike till the last possible moment. The intention is to deny the warning local provides, although it still reports the presence of the cyno boat enough to be associated with AFK Cloaking instead.
Quite simply, while PvE pilots would never resume regular activities with a hostile fleet present, they are sometimes willing to gamble over whether a cloaked vessel represents that level of threat at a given time.

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Quite seriously, the decision to hot drop changes when it stops being the only practical approach.
WHY?
If you can position forces with an equal or greater expectation of success in attacking a target, the negative side of hot dropping becomes too much of an obstacle for it. Giving your target a free shot at slamming the door on the attacking ships, even if you obviously don't expect they can take the shot, is a bad idea.
Why expose a vulnerability if you do not need to?

If you don't need the cyno as leverage to avoid warning your target, it's second most useful application is the quick getaway.
Players will want an escape to avoid being counter attacked, or a way out if things get pear shaped.

Do players want an I win button? The idea of one is more appealing than the reality.
The hostiles will be satisfied if they know their targets need to make an opposed effort, rather than a default one. They want to be in the game from the start, not just if the target fails to win immunity by beating them before they get a chance.

For cynos, as a stand alone solution, you need two parts.
Eliminate the need and value of the hot drop, and it will never happen again.

Part one, eliminate the need: Make local delay 30 seconds, or possibly 60 seconds. Whatever balances better.
Give PvE and any potential target ship the means to detect normal ships. This can even be the current d-scan, or a toggled version. Something that rewards effort, and gives a need for effort if you want to proactively defend yourself.
For forgetful or lazy players, they will leave themselves open to possible attack.

Part two, eliminate the value: A cyno now needs to spool up for 30 or 60 seconds, whichever the delay for local updates are.
During spool up, the cyno appears on grid, but with no system wide beacon on the overview. Ships cannot jump to it during spool up either.
After spool up, the beacon appears on the overview at the same time it can be jumped to.
The total effect, is that a cyno being on grid with the target warns that target more than the cyno being off grid does.

It may have even been longer tbh, as cloaks came out in 2004.

You can decloak them and stop the cloak from working by target locking them, or staying within decloak range. Then we have the greatest counter of all, shooting them when target locked.
We have local of course and although not a direct counter, it does counter the covert part to a large degree. I will exclude the inherent limitations, as that's what they are.

The point being is that just because you don't like the current counters to cloaking, doesn't mean they don't exist. There has to be a point when you stop with counters.

I.E. You ask for a probe to detect them, I ask for an anti probe detection device, you then ask for an anti probe detection device probe, I ask for an anti probe detection device probe detection device. Things get rather silly real quick.

With impunity? Come on. All you have to do is stop ratting in that min-maxed fit, get a few guys to rat with and you have neutralized that threat.

Ultimately, it does not matter how many are behind that cyno.
Either they have enough to kill you or not.

It does not matter how many are behind that cyno, if they can't shoot at you because you warp away.

When they try to kill you, you don't have to sit there and take it.

You think that the ship you are in is not a PvP ship.