These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Player Owned Customs offices in Hi-Sec

First post First post
Author
Maximilian Jenious
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#481 - 2013-10-09 16:48:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximilian Jenious
Hi

This feature will kill PI in High Sec Great work ;).

What will happen if during a war, the winning side don't put on office?

Owner ok but why not at the same condition of NPC taxe ?

the owner corporation / alliance / faction will get the 10% taxe instead of NPC faction and just that..... isn't it enough?

wait and see

after Highsec mineral in low sec ore, now PI for fight next step wardec on NPC corp?
Mangala Solaris
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#482 - 2013-10-09 17:28:34 UTC
If no one puts up a POCO, nothing is stopping YOU from doing it.
Maximilian Jenious
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#483 - 2013-10-09 17:39:12 UTC
Even if I'm in NPC corporation ?

i don't think so
Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#484 - 2013-10-09 17:52:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kropotkin
Mangala Solaris wrote:
If no one puts up a POCO, nothing is stopping YOU from doing it.

(1) NPC corp membership (2) Ever hear the word, "Poverty"?
Angus McRothimay
Fenrir Vangard
#485 - 2013-10-09 18:08:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Angus McRothimay
Imagine if you will

The organized might of a null sec alliance pounding on a high-sec customs office.

A lone ship circles the fleet ......

The interbus office explodes in a flash of light and the industrial with the gantry enters the scene ... the lone ship attacks the industrial ship but its suicidal attack fails and it dies in a flash of fire

The mighty alliance laughs at this act of stupidity but wait the planet has a new POCO ... it was a delaying tactic, Infuriated the alliance declares war and waits to take down the new POCO......

A lone ships circles the attacking fleet ...


I'm sure if we tried we could make it more bother than it's worth
Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#486 - 2013-10-09 19:36:01 UTC
Current selling price for a Customs Office Gantry is a little over 69 million ISK.
columbo miner
Rekall Incorporated
#487 - 2013-10-10 10:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: columbo miner
Personally I'm looking forward to this change, appreciate it will be tweaked a little before release due to the feedback given.

My take on this is that Low Sec PI may become more appealing. Maybe this has already been identified and could well be an intended by-product of the changes in high sec. Consequently more low sec targets industrials and people hunting them and people hunting the hunters etc.

Secondly and probably more importantly it will bring more conflict to high sec which as someone who fly's in small gangs and likes to bite (in some cases tear off) the ankle of larger corps it is truly welcomed.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#488 - 2013-10-10 14:40:41 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Blondie Jiggles wrote:
Hah this is a joke right?

HS PI is NOT worth fighting over !
The taxes are way too high and the yields of key ingredients are way too low.
The pathetic low yields of HS PI will NOT cover the expenses of fighting over POCO's, certainly for the small corps.
Just save us the trouble and transfer all assets to Goonswarm and delete my account.

Alternatively, leave HS PI alone and fix something meaningful like;
1.stop me from falling asleep while mining (add an asteroids client - ie shoot asteroids while you mine asteroids, the better you shoot the faster you mine ;) (or give mining bots to everybody)
2..make low sec relevant. I dont exactly know how, I just know its broken (I haven't been there but would like to without the need to share my profits with the support fleet who are trying not to fall asleep while waiting for the swarm of goons to jump in and blow up everything)


If they're not worth fighting over, why are we salivating so hard at the chance to own them? Straight


Probably for the tears. Not for the ISK.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#489 - 2013-10-10 14:43:10 UTC
ButtFungus wrote:
This thread is EPIC! With one swift stroke of the Developer's pen, thousands of solo hiseccers have been turned into Bittervets overnight. The disruption in the force nearly knocked me off my seat. Or maybe it was my thoughts of all those carebear-turned-bittervet players forming their own alliance and driving off the nullsec threat made me laugh so hard that I nearly fell off my seat. Imagine thousands of one-man-gang corps banding together to form a blob to challenge goons or RvB and all of them just wandering around fighting however they wish because there are no leaders and none of them would listen to one anyway. A YouTube video of that would be viral overnight! Please Please PLEASE CCP make this happen!


Be careful what you wish for...........Big smile
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#490 - 2013-10-10 14:52:55 UTC
Fix Lag wrote:
Pirate's Bunny wrote:
Fix Lag wrote:
Highsec is not being nerfed as this transfers the money from POCO customs fees from NPCs to players.


It doesn't transfer it, it takes more and gives it to player, npc tax is still on it.


There's a fairly small tax for the NPCs to prevent 0% havens and to guarantee lowsec POCOs are superior, but the gist of it is players now have the power to collect the bulk of the POCO transfer tax.


Low sec POCO will be superior aside from any tax issues as far as I can gather. The low sec planets produce more material per cycle don't they ?
LogiHiminn
Rage and Ruin
#491 - 2013-10-11 04:17:44 UTC
I think it's a good idea... It'll cause more conflict, the nullsec alliances that do make a power grab early on probably won't hang on to their new POCOs forever (I mean, a bunch of Goons sitting around a planet doing nothing all day? RIIIGHT!). It'll open up opportunities to hi-sec groups to grab them back, a bit of PVP involved for the health of all... I like it. As long as the taxes aren't ridonkulous... Plus, Goons only have to set a 5% tax to profit on a multitude of POCOs, and you would pay 15% total tax w/out the new skill, and still be paying less than you are now.

Or, if sooo many people hate the Goons, as they seem to do, why not do something about it? Just cuz you can't shoot at them doesn't mean a lot of other people can't... ;)
Lair Osen
#492 - 2013-10-11 15:53:54 UTC
What will happen with regards to a group logistics repairing NPC POCOs while they're being attacked by a separate group?
Will the attacking group get a limited engagement with the logi group or something like that? Or will the attackers just have to try to out dps the logis?
Chango
A Thousand Sons
#493 - 2013-10-14 08:00:16 UTC
In over 10 years of playing this "game", this has to be one of the most stupid changes thought up! Its not broke .. it works well why the feck change it ?
Its just a licence for the big Three to come into Hi-sec and strangle the supply of POS materials to small corps, by dominating all the Custom offices. We all have the funds to start a war deck on Goons dont we ?
If Small-corps in Hi-sec annoy you so much CCP and you really do hate seeing anyone having fun outside your idea of "What makes EvE great", then stop beating about the bush and make the whole of space 0.0 and have done with it.
Lots of pointless skill points trained for nothing.. thanks alot !
Fivetide
A Thousand Sons
#494 - 2013-10-14 08:51:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Fivetide
"Bash The Carebears" CCP's war on casual / social players has reached a new low this week with the announcement that all the fun / profit will be taken out of planetary interaction for small corporations or one man CareBear teams. Now, if you want to compete on price from PI products with large alliances, you will need two have the funds to wardec them. Of course CCP believe that this will force all players in hig- sec to band together in one large blob and takeover the existing universe. A spokesman for CCP said, off the record. "We are trying to to stop people going to their real life jobs and instead play a minimum of 12 hours on the EvE each night. This way we can increase our profits because more people will join the game and make us lots of money, because they think millions of real players are on the server all the time. I asked the spokesman if there would be a chance that we could walk around on customers offices, he said, " WOW that's a fantastic idea why didn't we think about that before? We could even have first person shooters running around blowing them up internally, but we wouldn't want everyone doing that so we would probably put it on a platform that not everyone wants to play on and .. oh.. oh .. we could get money off the console company to fund it !!. Finally I asked him, if he believed that the big alliances will dominate the use of HiSec customs officers by applying extortionate tax rates on them and therefore increase the profits they make from their Low-sec PI operations? He replied "Doh.. of course, why would we want to break a system that works OK, if not to help those poor Low-sec alliances feed their ambitions with increased profits?, I expect they will form an offshoot of the big alliance just for POCO bashing and killing anyone who attempts to take them over, great fun or what ?"

Extract from "The Daily Bash"
ELWhappo Sanchez
#495 - 2013-10-15 06:37:48 UTC
I did some hs pi on my main before this and it was barely worth doing.
after this change many will just ignore pi in hs all together.
and any new players can just skip it also good job sticking it to the little guys ccp.
all it really deserves is a big facepalm to the ****** who thought it would be a good idea.
we'll see how many you loose with this bone head move.
Morihei Akachi
Doomheim
#496 - 2013-10-16 22:19:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Morihei Akachi
I am really struggling to make sense of this from a story-telling perspective, but perhaps someone can point me to a thread or a post with an explanation in terms of the governing fiction of the game. At the moment, I have the following problems.

We are meant to believe that the Amarr Empire, the Caldari State, the Gallente Federation and the Minmatar Republic have all turned their control of planetary tolls over to the same corporation, Interbus. That seems odd, for starters. I can't think of an example in world history where opposed political entities all delegated their tax-collecting to the same third party. But in New Eden there's also Concord, so perhaps one could think of a way to understand this. Perhaps.

But then we are told that capsuleers, in the heart of Empire space, can wander up to any one of these customs offices and destroy it. Without consequences. No Concordokken, no Caldari Navy on the doorstep the next morning, nothing. This is as if a group of armed individuals decided to take over the customs office at the port of Rotterdam, and the Dutch government said, hey, no worries, we're fine with that. (The fact that they later have to announce that they are going to do this ahead of time by means of a wardec makes it no more logical.)

No state, ever, survives the loss of its hold over the tax revenue of its territory. So I can only see two ways this could go. One would be that the factions reassert their control over their customs offices: there needs to be serious opposition on the part of the Navy, or standings requirements, or—I liked this idea from an earlier post quite a lot, not least because it does have strong historical antecedents—a non-violent mechanism for gaining control of a customs office (auctioning, bribery, whatever).

The alternative is that this is intended as the beginning of the end of Empire space. On the heels of the customs offices will follow the mission agents. Eventually the CEOs of the great alliances will house in the ruins of Ishukone headquarters and the palace of the Empress. Curiously enough, I could live with that. But then I think that the customs offices are an absurd place to start, if that's the roadmap.

"Enduring", "restrained" and "ample" as designations for starship components are foreign to the genre of high-tech science fiction and don’t belong in Eve Online. (And as for “scoped” …)

Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH
#497 - 2013-10-17 06:22:05 UTC
Facepalm ...Dont you guys get it ? This whole HS POCO move has everything to do with more interaction between Eve and Dust 514.... The rules are completely different ...when you have Dust players taking over POCOS ...its 16 vs 16 players. You as an Eve player will hire a Dust corp to defend or take over a POCO. IF Goons have your POCO then just hire a **** hot DUST corp to kick them out....


Watch this space ...POCOS and Dust will do sooo much for Eve ...as an industrialist you now will have Dust corps on your pay roll...

I know it has not been officially confirmed but Il bet my left nut that this is why POCOS are being made available in high sec.
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#498 - 2013-10-19 09:08:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Olmops
Let us leave Goonswarm out of the equation for a second.

Why should I be taking down an Interbus CO?
Obvious reason: they charge me 10% tax. I can set that to 0% if I own a POCO. Fine.

But taxing other people? Well.
This NPC-tax-thing is wholly different than in Lowsec/Nullsec. In nullsec and lowsec, Interbus charges 17% tax.
If I blow up a CO and put a POCO there, charge only 10% or even less - that is WIN:WIN.
Hapless industrialists who are too meek to kill or defend a POCO (not that there are that many in 0.0) will flock to my POCO and willingly pay the lower tax.

But in highsec? Interbus charges 10%-skill, my POCO charges 10%-skill+X. Unless I set X=0% tax rate (which makes the whole taxing business somewhat pointless), all industrialists on the planets suddenly have an incentive TO ABANDON THEIR COLONIES and settle elsewhere.
TL;DR:. the NPC portion of the tax may keep lowsec POCOs in the competition, but POCOs can't compete with Interbus and are thus completely pointless except for own PI!

That is ofc unless:
a) ALL Interbus COs have been killed
b) there are some planets that are so much better than others (ressources or position) that people tolerate higher taxes
c) the "zero risk-max profit"-HS people are too lazy to move away

Now there are over 9000 (:-D REALLY) planets in highsec. Each CO takes like 15,000,000 hits before it explodes. No capitals allowed.
If GSF wants to kill all of em, the whole alliance will surely disband, because nearly half of them will be bored to death by doing so.

My guess is that we will continue to see many Interbus COs throughout highsec for a long time (there are plenty in 0.0 and lowsec and it is years since they have been introduced).
But in HS, players will PREFER Interbus offices. So POCOs will be irrelevant outside of a small portion of planets.
For everyone doing PI outside these places - rejoice! Your NPC taxes will be lowered to 40% of the current NPC tax.

P4 goods will drop in value, although this maybe somewhat compensated by goons et al. buying POS guns to fend off siphon units in their former afk-empires.
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#499 - 2013-10-19 09:16:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Olmops
CCP, please tell me that (and why) I am wrong.

Until then, I demand that Interbus taxes in highsec will be 17% like in lowsec/0.0 (the tax rate in the new NPC COs, NOT the NPC portion of the highsec POCO tax which can be 10%). Or was it planned like that?
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#500 - 2013-10-19 10:18:16 UTC
I think you got the equation wrong, it is going to be Interbus tax + NPC tax (modified by your skill lvl). The Interbus tax is going to be the same as everywhere else.
Means if you blow the thing up youre still going to have the NPC tax but you can remove (or increase for the lols) the Interbus tax part.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE