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[Proposal] New 0.0 region(s) with NPC stations and no local

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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-10-17 22:33:03 UTC
I want to see at least 1 new 0.0 region that has NPC stations but has no local chat (same as WH space)

The reason I want it is to have more gameplay variety in game. I'm sure many people will enjoy living there. This new space will not take away anything from anyone, it only adds to the game.

Since there would be no local, thus increased risk, the rewards (not moon related) should be about 25-50% greater than similar 0.0 region with local.

It is important to have NPC stations there so alliances can't lock it down for personal use. It'll be open to anyone.
Ideally, such a region should have many entry/exit points, not just 2-3, so it's not easily locked down.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-10-17 22:48:54 UTC
1st ever supported...feels weird...

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Sylphy
TSOE Po1ice
TSOE Consortium
#3 - 2013-10-18 10:03:43 UTC
And why would anyone support an idea that obviously lends an advantage to bigger alliances? Null is null, wh space is wh space. There's a difference for a reason.

The character does not represent the views/opinions of its Corporation or Alliance.
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-10-18 19:59:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ephemeron
Sylphy wrote:
And why would anyone support an idea that obviously lends an advantage to bigger alliances? Null is null, wh space is wh space. There's a difference for a reason.

This space would offer more advantage to small adventuring corps than big alliances. Since there are NPC stations, alliance wouldn't be able to lock down the region against people who choose to live and fight there. It's that simple

Even if big alliances were to receive greater benefit, there's no reason to not have this feature, since it only adds to the game. Nobody loses anything, only gains
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2013-10-18 20:01:19 UTC
Ephemeron wrote:
Sylphy wrote:
And why would anyone support an idea that obviously lends an advantage to bigger alliances? Null is null, wh space is wh space. There's a difference for a reason.

This space would offer more advantage to small adventuring corps than big alliances. Since there are NPC stations, alliance wouldn't be able to lock down the region against people who choose to live and fight there. It's that simple



So Syndicate with out local?
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-10-18 20:14:18 UTC
Baaldor wrote:
Ephemeron wrote:
Sylphy wrote:
And why would anyone support an idea that obviously lends an advantage to bigger alliances? Null is null, wh space is wh space. There's a difference for a reason.

This space would offer more advantage to small adventuring corps than big alliances. Since there are NPC stations, alliance wouldn't be able to lock down the region against people who choose to live and fight there. It's that simple



So Syndicate with out local?

Yes, something like that would be great
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2013-10-18 20:15:05 UTC
Ephemeron wrote:
Baaldor wrote:
Ephemeron wrote:
Sylphy wrote:
And why would anyone support an idea that obviously lends an advantage to bigger alliances? Null is null, wh space is wh space. There's a difference for a reason.

This space would offer more advantage to small adventuring corps than big alliances. Since there are NPC stations, alliance wouldn't be able to lock down the region against people who choose to live and fight there. It's that simple



So Syndicate with out local?

Yes, something like that would be great


K, go to syndicate and close local. v0v
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-10-18 20:30:04 UTC
Baaldor wrote:
Ephemeron wrote:
Baaldor wrote:
Ephemeron wrote:
Sylphy wrote:
And why would anyone support an idea that obviously lends an advantage to bigger alliances? Null is null, wh space is wh space. There's a difference for a reason.

This space would offer more advantage to small adventuring corps than big alliances. Since there are NPC stations, alliance wouldn't be able to lock down the region against people who choose to live and fight there. It's that simple



So Syndicate with out local?

Yes, something like that would be great


K, go to syndicate and close local. v0v

you know it doesn't work that way. However I'd be happy if CCP removed local from Syndicate if they don't want to make new region
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-10-19 00:21:13 UTC
I think it's a great idea as a test for no-local.

I am extremely confident that an Eve 2.0 would not have local; it's just too ingrained from the early days that it can't be reversed across the board without a huge backlash. However, if there was an NPC region and the gameplay was noticeably superior with no local, then a game-wide change would be much easier to push through.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2013-10-19 01:33:38 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
I think it's a great idea as a test for no-local.

I am extremely confident that an Eve 2.0 would not have local; it's just too ingrained from the early days that it can't be reversed across the board without a huge backlash. However, if there was an NPC region and the gameplay was noticeably superior with no local, then a game-wide change would be much easier to push through.


Actually, if you think about it, quite a few fly with local closed anyway in large fleets. Cuz the local spam spews forth and you are pretty much lagged to ****, or TD'd to ****, whatever we are calling it now.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-10-23 22:55:23 UTC
Baaldor wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
I think it's a great idea as a test for no-local.

I am extremely confident that an Eve 2.0 would not have local; it's just too ingrained from the early days that it can't be reversed across the board without a huge backlash. However, if there was an NPC region and the gameplay was noticeably superior with no local, then a game-wide change would be much easier to push through.


Actually, if you think about it, quite a few fly with local closed anyway in large fleets. Cuz the local spam spews forth and you are pretty much lagged to ****, or TD'd to ****, whatever we are calling it now.


Large fleet gameplay is quite different from regular EVE experience. Local is absolutely essential tool of intelligence gathering for both attackers and defenders, the pirates and carebears. Everybody is heavily relying on it to provide instant and accurate information about potential targets.

Creating a space that has different rules of intelligence gathering will create different type of gameplay and different, more player skill oriented type of gameplay. Even those large fleets you talk about actually rely on certain people within that fleet to provide accurate tactical intelligence. Just because you can safely ignore local doesn't mean your commander can ignore it, fleet commander relies on that information as much as anyone and makes the decisions for you
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-10-25 20:01:38 UTC
Jove space opens
It's empty
No communication network
Powerful automated defenses (similar to WH space)
Systems bordering K-space have working stargates
systems bordering Jove space do not (accessible only via WH space from C4+ class wormholes as roaming non-statics)
Introduce player build and operated star gates
Internal Jove systems lightly defended but have plenty of exploration opertunity (new sisters faction ship fleets anyone?)
External Jove systems connected to K-space heavy defenses (aka either one has it's values but they change the deeper into Jove space you go)

Let players unwrap the mystery of the vanished Jove as well as the quarantine in W-space

Players get a 0.0 region like WH space only fully controlled by players through their own stargates and (possibly) local like communication system.

Income from exterior systems comes from salvage and drops from automated Jove defenses. Combat similar but much larger/more difficult then incursions
Income from interior systems comes more from exploration, hacking, analyzing, industry of found components/salvage.
Presents battleground for WHers to clash with Null residents as WH space will have initial grab while null residents have to construct star gates and protect them.
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-10-25 22:46:46 UTC
Lyra Gerie wrote:
Jove space opens
It's empty
No communication network
Powerful automated defenses (similar to WH space)
Systems bordering K-space have working stargates
systems bordering Jove space do not (accessible only via WH space from C4+ class wormholes as roaming non-statics)
Introduce player build and operated star gates
Internal Jove systems lightly defended but have plenty of exploration opertunity (new sisters faction ship fleets anyone?)
External Jove systems connected to K-space heavy defenses (aka either one has it's values but they change the deeper into Jove space you go)

Let players unwrap the mystery of the vanished Jove as well as the quarantine in W-space

Players get a 0.0 region like WH space only fully controlled by players through their own stargates and (possibly) local like communication system.

Income from exterior systems comes from salvage and drops from automated Jove defenses. Combat similar but much larger/more difficult then incursions
Income from interior systems comes more from exploration, hacking, analyzing, industry of found components/salvage.
Presents battleground for WHers to clash with Null residents as WH space will have initial grab while null residents have to construct star gates and protect them.

That sounds interesting, but I worry that it is too restrictive to general public. My main idea is that new region is easily accessible to anyone who wants to give it a try, not just the organized elite players
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-10-26 08:35:58 UTC
Ephemeron wrote:
Lyra Gerie wrote:
Jove space opens
It's empty
No communication network
Powerful automated defenses (similar to WH space)
Systems bordering K-space have working stargates
systems bordering Jove space do not (accessible only via WH space from C4+ class wormholes as roaming non-statics)
Introduce player build and operated star gates
Internal Jove systems lightly defended but have plenty of exploration opertunity (new sisters faction ship fleets anyone?)
External Jove systems connected to K-space heavy defenses (aka either one has it's values but they change the deeper into Jove space you go)

Let players unwrap the mystery of the vanished Jove as well as the quarantine in W-space

Players get a 0.0 region like WH space only fully controlled by players through their own stargates and (possibly) local like communication system.

Income from exterior systems comes from salvage and drops from automated Jove defenses. Combat similar but much larger/more difficult then incursions
Income from interior systems comes more from exploration, hacking, analyzing, industry of found components/salvage.
Presents battleground for WHers to clash with Null residents as WH space will have initial grab while null residents have to construct star gates and protect them.

That sounds interesting, but I worry that it is too restrictive to general public. My main idea is that new region is easily accessible to anyone who wants to give it a try, not just the organized elite players


Setting up in 0.0 type space and making it more like WH space REQUIRES organized players. Even more so if the traffic is going to be much higher then typical wormhole space.
Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#15 - 2013-10-27 13:19:39 UTC
Some elaboration on how players might use such space would be good.

Nullsec has the following economic resources which as far as I can guess would work out distributed as follows in your new local-free region:

High end money moons - PL or CFC
Mid range money moons - whoever can be bothered to stick a strong POS on and regularly clear off siphons
Anoms, scan down combat sites - dedicated multiboxing site runners (like Joker who gave a talk at Eve Vegas)
Gas - almost no one, an occasional explorer
Relic/data - newbies in magnates
Asteroid belts - no one
NPC missions - cloaky nullified tengu alts if the LP payout is high because of unusual/unique items.
POCOs - probably no one

Here's what I'm seeing resulting from this:
- virtually no fights. You could hunt down tengus running sites or doing missions but it's a pretty horrible task which is why so few people do it on TQ.

Now presumably this is not the OP's vision so perhaps you could explain why you feel this space would be an entertaining addition to the game.

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-10-28 00:46:47 UTC
Callduron wrote:
Some elaboration on how players might use such space would be good.

Nullsec has the following economic resources which as far as I can guess would work out distributed as follows in your new local-free region:

High end money moons - PL or CFC
Mid range money moons - whoever can be bothered to stick a strong POS on and regularly clear off siphons
Anoms, scan down combat sites - dedicated multiboxing site runners (like Joker who gave a talk at Eve Vegas)
Gas - almost no one, an occasional explorer
Relic/data - newbies in magnates
Asteroid belts - no one
NPC missions - cloaky nullified tengu alts if the LP payout is high because of unusual/unique items.
POCOs - probably no one

Here's what I'm seeing resulting from this:
- virtually no fights. You could hunt down tengus running sites or doing missions but it's a pretty horrible task which is why so few people do it on TQ.

Now presumably this is not the OP's vision so perhaps you could explain why you feel this space would be an entertaining addition to the game.

I agree with your assessment.

To encourage non-alliance based PvP, small scale PvP, such region would need to have extra incentives, such as:
1) special asteroids that are more profitable than asteroids found in other regions. These have to be either in the main asteroid belts or anomaly sites that are automatically detected without need for scanning equipment.
2) Much more profitable belt rats, at least 2x average bounty and greater chance for faction spawns.

Idealy, the NPC region should be setup in such a way as to prohibit alliances from setting up jump bridges. This should result in greater than usual stargate traffic and greater chance of encounters in easily accessible areas, such as gates, asteroid belts, anomalies.

I remember before CCP added all the POS stuff and jump brides, and nerfed officer hunting, 0.0 space was much more lively for small scale fights. Now it feels almost deserted. My idea should encourage small scale engagements and make things much more lively, at least in a small part of the map
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#17 - 2013-10-28 02:37:48 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
I think it's a great idea as a test for no-local.

I am extremely confident that an Eve 2.0 would not have local; it's just too ingrained from the early days that it can't be reversed across the board without a huge backlash. However, if there was an NPC region and the gameplay was noticeably superior with no local, then a game-wide change would be much easier to push through.


If only for this reason, it's a valuable idea.

Adding more variety in EVE's "ecosystems" can only make it better.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#18 - 2013-11-04 18:04:34 UTC
Maybe some kind of npc arena where you scan down a site and it has a single "lieutenant" npc who is basicly a T2 ship of whatever size and you fight him for a near guaranteed c or b type drop and a couple of thousand units of faction ammo.


Just throwing it out there. A kind of semi pvp encounter a la dark souls npc invasions
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#19 - 2013-11-06 20:25:48 UTC
First of all I would support this, however I would suggestion a couple of adjustments:

1. Link from some low sec system which is next to a hisec system
2. Make the jump distance so that no capitals in current space can cyno there
3. To make the space dark cold and big, remove all the stuff you get in the Eve map and Dotlan like kills, cyno's, NPC's killed etc. as well as local

Removing local is only part of it, you need to remove all that information that enables people to find people so easily in current space, this would then be an Eve I could relate to, something damn hard and rewarding proper hunting play.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-11-07 04:24:01 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
First of all I would support this, however I would suggestion a couple of adjustments:

1. Link from some low sec system which is next to a hisec system
2. Make the jump distance so that no capitals in current space can cyno there
3. To make the space dark cold and big, remove all the stuff you get in the Eve map and Dotlan like kills, cyno's, NPC's killed etc. as well as local

Removing local is only part of it, you need to remove all that information that enables people to find people so easily in current space, this would then be an Eve I could relate to, something damn hard and rewarding proper hunting play.

I fully support removing map related intelligence gathering. Map should not give any statistics on kills and pilots in space. All such information should be gathered by individual players, players can choose to share it in their intel channels
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