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[Rubicon] [Updated] Interdictor Rebalance

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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#121 - 2013-10-15 18:18:44 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
what's the point of an explosion radius bonus on frigate sized weapons anyway??
rockets already have lower explosion radius than guns sig res

T1/ Faction rockets - 20m
T2 Rage - 34m
T2 Rage with GMP lv5 - 25.5m

guns - 40m

T1/ Faction Light missiles - 40m
T2 Fury - 69m
T2 Fury with GMP lv5 - 51.75m


Learn to missile formula.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#122 - 2013-10-15 18:28:45 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
what's the point of an explosion radius bonus on frigate sized weapons anyway??
rockets already have lower explosion radius than guns sig res

T1/ Faction rockets - 20m
T2 Rage - 34m
T2 Rage with GMP lv5 - 25.5m

guns - 40m

T1/ Faction Light missiles - 40m
T2 Fury - 69m
T2 Fury with GMP lv5 - 51.75m


Learn to missile formula.


do explain

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#123 - 2013-10-15 18:30:41 UTC
There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...

That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#124 - 2013-10-15 18:33:02 UTC
Quote:
Signature radius: 85(-1)


Also Fozzie, do you think is normal that even after this rebalance dictors will have a much larger sig radius that some cruisers?
like really, aren't they supposed to be smaller than a cruiser, in between frigs and cruisers if i'm not mistaken?Shocked
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#125 - 2013-10-15 18:36:29 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...

That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two


Or better yet, make it impossible to fit 2, and not change anything else.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#126 - 2013-10-15 18:38:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
at least allow them to use their MWD in a bubble

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#127 - 2013-10-15 18:39:33 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...

That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two


Or better yet, make it impossible to fit 2, and not change anything else.


That would **** off a lot of people. .. I like it

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#128 - 2013-10-15 18:48:35 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
at least allow them to use their MWD in a bubble


Thats a hictor, different ship, nothing stops a dictor from using its MWD in a bubble

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Valterra Craven
#129 - 2013-10-15 18:48:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.

Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming.


I'm not really understanding your reasoning on this one...

Interceptors are designed to catch and stop ships
Interdictors serve the same purposes for fleets...

So why is that capability over powered on one ship and not the the other?

In fact if you look at it, ceptors have the speed and agility that dictors don't making it far easier for them to get out of bubbles in the first place, making something easier for them doesn't really make since... put another way, t3's have this ability and are far more tanky and adaptable than dictors are... yet its not over powered for them???


Where are you drawing the line?
Vatek
Rents Due Crew
#130 - 2013-10-15 18:49:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Vatek
Why do we need 3 dictors that use missiles? The heretic has incredible potential as a laserboat but it simply doesn't have the CPU to properly fit missiles thanks to the huge CPU requirements.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#131 - 2013-10-15 18:51:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Grath Telkin wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
at least allow them to use their MWD in a bubble


Thats a hictor, different ship, nothing stops a dictor from using its MWD in a bubble


mm.. wasn't sure due to it saying warp scramble on anything related to HIC or interdictor bubbles would be nice if they changed it to disruption instead..

mm.. maybe make their MWD speed untouched in HIC bubbles ..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Tragedy
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2013-10-15 18:52:42 UTC
Please stop with split wep systems. We now have 2 1/2 missile dictors 1 1/2 turret. Wtf ccp.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#133 - 2013-10-15 18:54:30 UTC
Vatek wrote:
Why do we need 3 dictors that use missiles? The heretic has incredible potential as a laserboat but it simply doesn't have the CPU to properly fit missiles thanks to the huge CPU requirements.


would be nice if it was laser based instead too many drone and missile ships nowadays

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#134 - 2013-10-15 19:00:49 UTC
No idea why gallente needs a third weapon system, and why split weapons.

T2 ships should have smaller sig than T1.

.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#135 - 2013-10-15 19:02:55 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
double post
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#136 - 2013-10-15 19:03:21 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
gascanu wrote:
gascanu wrote:
Quote:
Signature radius: 85(-1)


Also Fozzie, do you think is normal that even after this rebalance dictors will have a much larger sig radius that some cruisers?
like really, aren't they supposed to be smaller than a cruiser, in between frigs and cruisers if i'm not mistaken?Shocked


non empty quoting myself: Pirate




HERETIC
Signature radius: 75(-8)

FLYCATCHER
Signature radius: 80(-10)

ERIS -
Signature radius: 85(-1)

Sabre
Signature radius: 70(-5)



scimitar: sig radius 65m

guardian: sig radius 75m

oneiros: sig radius 70m
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2013-10-15 19:03:44 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...

That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two


Or better yet, make it impossible to fit 2, and not change anything else.


That would **** off a lot of people. .. I like it

It would also make the game bland.
Double-bubble dictors did not get popular because two bubbles over each other are simply better than one.

They became popular because they enable tactical options in fleet positioning that a single bubble dictor can't. So reducing this would really just remove tactical depth from the game.

So far I am stunned by the split weapons discussion on ships that rarely fit more than one or two token guns - and the changes are not radical enough for me to see that changing.
What I do like though the proposal of a "Can fit 2 interdiction sphere launchers" role limit and then go lighter on their fitting.

The cap/s increase from 1.5 to 2 is huge, and I'd like to see that for myself on sisi; but, a dictor should really not MWD more than 40-60km after dropping its payload before it switches to a short ongrid warp into safety. And the cap was always enough for that.

The vulnerable phase for a dictor in a fleet fight is after dropping the bubble(s) with effectively 0 transversal to the targets. With the sig bloom from MWDs, this is a near guaranteed hit and instalock from HACs, and sometimes even locks from BS.
With specifically fit HACs I have little issue, although one could make it a bit harder for them. But really that should be the job of point defense frigates.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#138 - 2013-10-15 19:07:16 UTC
Mioelnir wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
There is alot of talk about double bubble dictors... why not just upgrade the launcher to have two bubbles per reload? Or some mechanism that effectively tturns two launchers into one...

That might be a better solution then designing the ship to fit two


Or better yet, make it impossible to fit 2, and not change anything else.


That would **** off a lot of people. .. I like it

It would also make the game bland.
Double-bubble dictors did not get popular because two bubbles over each other are simply better than one.

They became popular because they enable tactical options in fleet positioning that a single bubble dictor can't. So reducing this would really just remove tactical depth from the game.

So far I am stunned by the split weapons discussion on ships that rarely fit more than one or two token guns - and the changes are not radical enough for me to see that changing.
What I do like though the proposal of a "Can fit 2 interdiction sphere launchers" role limit and then go lighter on their fitting.

The cap/s increase from 1.5 to 2 is huge, and I'd like to see that for myself on sisi; but, a dictor should really not MWD more than 40-60km after dropping its payload before it switches to a short ongrid warp into safety. And the cap was always enough for that.

The vulnerable phase for a dictor in a fleet fight is after dropping the bubble(s) with effectively 0 transversal to the targets. With the sig bloom from MWDs, this is a near guaranteed hit and instalock from HACs, and sometimes even locks from BS.
With specifically fit HACs I have little issue, although one could make it a bit harder for them. But really that should be the job of point defense frigates.


They became popular because it lets you ignore that stupid bubble timer thats part of the skill, thats really it, now you can launch bubbles every 30 seconds or so instead of every minute and its just a work around their cool down timer, in essence double bubbles makes that skill bonus for lowering bubble launch time a non issue.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#139 - 2013-10-15 19:15:39 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
That would **** off a lot of people. .. I like it

Who? I mean who even flies them right now?

Flycatcher
Shield: 1100 HP / EM 0% / EX 50% / K 60% / T 75%
Armor: 600 HP / EM 50% / EX 10% / K 55% / T 80%
Hull: 650 HP / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Slots: 8H / 5M / 2L
Sig Radius: 70
Additional Interdictors skill bonuses:
+10% to AB thrust velocity bonus per level
-2% activation AB mass penalty per level
+5% to web range per level

The new interceptors can now intercept. Wouldn't it be nice if the new interdictors could actually fill the roll they're named for? You guys were so so bold on the changes to the former... why are you soft shoeing around 'dictors? Everything can kill them.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Edward Pierce
State War Academy
Caldari State
#140 - 2013-10-15 19:21:54 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

They became popular because it lets you ignore that stupid bubble timer thats part of the skill, thats really it, now you can launch bubbles every 30 seconds or so instead of every minute and its just a work around their cool down timer, in essence double bubbles makes that skill bonus for lowering bubble launch time a non issue.

That assumes the dictor lives for more than 30 seconds in the engagement.

I thought the point was to be able to drop two bubbles back to back, trapping a larger chunk of the enemy fleet.