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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5601 - 2013-10-15 10:48:42 UTC
Thankyou, ideally i was hoping for 40k with conflag, that'd make it a real contender to a Tach nightmare.

Seems interesting tho, seems like it could make pulses somewhat usefull for missioning.
joshua mckayne
Bubblewrap.
#5602 - 2013-10-15 10:52:48 UTC
Hell ***** wrote:
Thankyou, ideally i was hoping for 40k with conflag, that'd make it a real contender to a Tach nightmare.

Seems interesting tho, seems like it could make pulses somewhat usefull for missioning.


although the NAPOC is better with pulse lasers by virtue of its tracking bonus and can actually make conflag hit the broad side of a barn.
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5603 - 2013-10-15 11:04:14 UTC
joshua mckayne wrote:
Hell ***** wrote:
Thankyou, ideally i was hoping for 40k with conflag, that'd make it a real contender to a Tach nightmare.

Seems interesting tho, seems like it could make pulses somewhat usefull for missioning.


although the NAPOC is better with pulse lasers by virtue of its tracking bonus and can actually make conflag hit the broad side of a barn.


Yeah, I have been spoiled with the nightmares tracking bonus, not sure how effective it'd be without. I'll just have to wait and see if/when these go live.
SOL Ranger
Imperial Armed Forces
#5604 - 2013-10-15 11:24:32 UTC
Suggestion

A marauder has the option of fitting extra offline alternatives and turn them on in space, they can fit 8H/ 8M/ 8L slots but can only use a predefined primary number of modules at the same time, similar to live.

VARGUR

Note:
Can fit Tactical Jump Drive(Targeted). 70% reduction in Jump Drive reactivation delay.

Role bonus:
100% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage.
90% reduction in capacitor need when turning modules online.(not activation, just "online")
50% Reduction in the amount of heat damage absorbed by modules.

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to large projectile turret rate of fire per level.
10% bonus to large projectile turret falloff per level.

Marauder Skill Bonus:
7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level.
7.5% bonus to large projectile turret tracking per level.

Slot layout: 6H(8), 6M(8), 5L(8); 4 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 12900 PWG, 625 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 9500 / 9200 / 8200
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 142m/s / .112 / 116840000/ 18.1s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 65 / 260
Sensor strength: 28 Ladar

Ex. 1
I have a pure PvE fit and go about missioning, I notice suspicious players in local so I offline something less vital for a few emergency survival modules just in case.
Ex. 2
I have a specialized PvE fit and turns out the enemy I'm fighting is doing heavy EM damage which I'm not protected against, I offline something less useful and online some of my previously fitted but offline EM resistance and proceed fighting.

You get the picture, it is simple but invaluable and follows the idea of Marauders being versatile and long duration vessels.
I also think the targeted MJD, a decent buffer, drone bay and functional sensor strength is needed.

Can I get it in white?


Put bastion on something completely different, maybe on a new ship role altogether, defender?

The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#5605 - 2013-10-15 11:40:10 UTC
joshua mckayne wrote:
Hell ***** wrote:
Thankyou, ideally i was hoping for 40k with conflag, that'd make it a real contender to a Tach nightmare.

Seems interesting tho, seems like it could make pulses somewhat usefull for missioning.


although the NAPOC is better with pulse lasers by virtue of its tracking bonus and can actually make conflag hit the broad side of a barn.



Be a man.


Use beams.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Lin Xou
The Explodables
#5606 - 2013-10-15 12:10:02 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Serge SC wrote:
I agree with what's said. If we're not allowing ANY assistance, why should we allow neuting? These ships have an extremely high reliance on their caps. When Bastion'ed, one is too vulnerable to neuts, tank requires cap to work, and in the case of the paladin and kronos, to shoot. Since we're immobile, it's quite a flaw that we can get capped out entirely and become sitting target practice...

After some more tessting with the Vargur, I like it, quite a bit. I'd just add some extra shield HP on it and -forcebly have to rely on bastion- or give me proper T2 resists. Most T2 hulls have good resistances, but low HP. Why do Marauders get ever-so-slightly extra resists and no HP? We're getting the worst of both worlds and compensating with yet another "gimmick", the Bastion module.

EDIT: Also, if Bastion is here to stay on it's current iteration, might as well give us a T2 version of it too, like Siege Modules! 40% resists accross, 40% to optimal and falloff, and 150% to shield boosting, while also giving the ship added tracking 15%? (other option is to make the hull usable standalone and Bastion as an added thing)



because neuts have always been immune to ewar immunity. Same as in Dreads in siege , Moms, Titans etc...



Dreads, Moms, Titans can be remote assisted. If you can't fill the capacitor volume remotely it makes no sense being able to empty one remotely. The nerf to the paladin and kronos is huge as it can’t use ASB’s to get the ehp back. Give the kronos and paladin a sub cap super weapon that can alpha vindicators and I wouldn’t care Big smile
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5607 - 2013-10-15 12:25:41 UTC
Neut immunity would be so absurdly overpowered it doesn't even bear thinking about, what should happen is that the bastion module should require some cap per cycle, even just 1GJ, so that ASB fitted marauders have some weakness.

With the V1 bastion module an ASB Vargur's tank is bordering on God-mode and requires no cap to run at all.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#5608 - 2013-10-15 13:49:29 UTC
Hell ***** wrote:
Neut immunity would be so absurdly overpowered it doesn't even bear thinking about, what should happen is that the bastion module should require some cap per cycle, even just 1GJ, so that ASB fitted marauders have some weakness.

With the V1 bastion module an ASB Vargur's tank is bordering on God-mode and requires no cap to run at all.


It requires Cap Boosters tho.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5609 - 2013-10-15 13:55:31 UTC
Cap booster charges, and it's hold is massive. Compare the 2 shield marauders to the 2 armour marauders.

Vargur & Golem - Capless weapons and the option of ASB's (capless tanking, improved by the capless bastion module)

Paladin & Kronos - Needs cap for weapons and tank, bastion module requires no cap but what does it matter if you can't run that bastion boosted repper.

Armour marauders are getting the shaft being very vulnerable to cap warfare whilst the other 2 are virtually immune.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5610 - 2013-10-15 14:02:58 UTC
Hell ***** wrote:
Neut immunity would be so absurdly overpowered it doesn't even bear thinking about, what should happen is that the bastion module should require some cap per cycle, even just 1GJ, so that ASB fitted marauders have some weakness.

With the V1 bastion module an ASB Vargur's tank is bordering on God-mode and requires no cap to run at all.


Again, the issue with ASB and Marauders/bastion is not the fault of Marauders or bastion.

A single ASB if balanced... Duel ASBs is OP and thus should not be allowed through some gimmick along the same lines as Bastion and DCU.

Same goes for AAR.. Only one per ship.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5611 - 2013-10-15 14:04:06 UTC
Hell ***** wrote:
Cap booster charges, and it's hold is massive. Compare the 2 shield marauders to the 2 armour marauders.

Vargur & Golem - Capless weapons and the option of ASB's (capless tanking, improved by the capless bastion module)

Paladin & Kronos - Needs cap for weapons and tank, bastion module requires no cap but what does it matter if you can't run that bastion boosted repper.

Armour marauders are getting the shaft being very vulnerable to cap warfare whilst the other 2 are virtually immune.



Yes, but if you manage to lock a Vargur or Golem down long enough to force them to boost with cap, they'll dry out in seconds.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#5612 - 2013-10-15 14:05:39 UTC
Hell ***** wrote:
Cap booster charges, and it's hold is massive. Compare the 2 shield marauders to the 2 armour marauders.

Vargur & Golem - Capless weapons and the option of ASB's (capless tanking, improved by the capless bastion module)

Paladin & Kronos - Needs cap for weapons and tank, bastion module requires no cap but what does it matter if you can't run that bastion boosted repper.

Armour marauders are getting the shaft being very vulnerable to cap warfare whilst the other 2 are virtually immune.



True true, I just said that so nobody would ever think god mode tank would last forever. Smile

My golem can hold round about 41 800 Booster charges (including the five loaded into my Booster module), + ~3500 Torpedoes...

And sometimes I can feel the terrible urge to equip a cargohold expander... Shocked
I could resist it so far, but I don't know how for how long my resolve is going to last.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5613 - 2013-10-15 14:21:34 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Hell ***** wrote:
Cap booster charges, and it's hold is massive. Compare the 2 shield marauders to the 2 armour marauders.

Vargur & Golem - Capless weapons and the option of ASB's (capless tanking, improved by the capless bastion module)

Paladin & Kronos - Needs cap for weapons and tank, bastion module requires no cap but what does it matter if you can't run that bastion boosted repper.

Armour marauders are getting the shaft being very vulnerable to cap warfare whilst the other 2 are virtually immune.



Yes, but if you manage to lock a Vargur or Golem down long enough to force them to boost with cap, they'll dry out in seconds.


That's my point exactly, you have to wait for the Vargur/Golem to run out of charges first, all you gotta do to a Paladin/Kronos is set a Geddon on them. That extra time could be the difference between juicy killmail or backup arriving.

Seriously imbalanced, all in the name of balance.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5614 - 2013-10-15 14:53:13 UTC
Hell ***** wrote:


And so it should considering the difference in price and training time.


Neither of those things matter in ship balance.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#5615 - 2013-10-15 14:59:34 UTC
I almost wish they'd shelve the proposed Marauder changes until the next quarterly update after Rubicon (CCP indicated they're moving to annual expansions and quarterly updates). I think it would be beneficial to see these alongside Pirate battleships and any proposed rebalancing there.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5616 - 2013-10-15 15:00:43 UTC
Is this how ship balancing is done?
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#5617 - 2013-10-15 15:02:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Karade
baltec1 wrote:
Johann Rascali wrote:
I greatly urge you guys to at least somkewhat revert back to the second iteration of changes. They'd make Marauders useful at something other than L4/L5 missions and getting killed seiged in a random spot it jumped to.


The second iteration was terrible.
no, actually it was a better stab at a compromise, for those who still use their web bonuses (granted it was stupid to slap the bonus on all 4 Marauders), and T2 resists were way superior for anything 'non' solo. You still had the range buffing effect of bastion too.

I get it that you don't make use of webs, that's great for you, but your shield tanking Megathron is a gimmick, nothing more, and really won't work at all with the warp acceleration changes coming in...

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5618 - 2013-10-15 15:06:32 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I almost wish they'd shelve the proposed Marauder changes until the next quarterly update after Rubicon (CCP indicated they're moving to annual expansions and quarterly updates). I think it would be beneficial to see these alongside Pirate battleships and any proposed rebalancing there.


This is actually the best idea to come out of this thread, unless they already are rebalancing pirate bs's and just not told us yet.
Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5619 - 2013-10-15 15:23:41 UTC
Hell ***** wrote:
Cap booster charges, and it's hold is massive. Compare the 2 shield marauders to the 2 armour marauders.

Vargur & Golem - Capless weapons and the option of ASB's (capless tanking, improved by the capless bastion module)

Paladin & Kronos - Needs cap for weapons and tank, bastion module requires no cap but what does it matter if you can't run that bastion boosted repper.

Armour marauders are getting the shaft being very vulnerable to cap warfare whilst the other 2 are virtually immune.



haha really? I find the paladin tank to be OP since it has 12000 cap and you can fit 2 x t2 ccc rigs to permarun a large armor rep. Golem tank is weak by comparison due to extreme poor cap size and the riggs are always reserve for missile rigs. with the cap nerf i dont even think golem can perma run a pith-a type med shield booster. I doubt many would use a marauder to pvp anyway
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5620 - 2013-10-15 15:33:19 UTC
Gabriel Karade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Johann Rascali wrote:
I greatly urge you guys to at least somkewhat revert back to the second iteration of changes. They'd make Marauders useful at something other than L4/L5 missions and getting killed seiged in a random spot it jumped to.


The second iteration was terrible.
no, actually it was a better stab at a compromise, for those who still use their web bonuses (granted it was stupid to slap the bonus on all 4 Marauders), and T2 resists were way superior for anything 'non' solo. You still had the range buffing effect of bastion too.

I get it that you don't make use of webs, that's great for you, but your shield tanking Megathron is a gimmick, nothing more, and really won't work at all with the warp acceleration changes coming in...


It got rid of the massive reps and resists which is the biggest selling point of these new ships in exchange for a web bonus on a ship with range bonuses. It made zero sense and its only fans are the min/max bears who only ever do level 4s. It would have been useless in pvp.