Player Features and Ideas Discussion

On this point. My preferred solution is to put in an intel mechanic/system that is sov based. The higher the sov/upgrades the better the intel for that system. But basic intel would likely still tell you when somebody changes systems. After all, you can't jump through a gate cloaked. For example, if there is a constellation level intel mechanic then it might record people entering the constellation, but that is it. Next layer down might be an IFF beacon in a system that will tell you who is in system, but it needs a higher level of sov and probably some sort of ihub upgrade and may come with an anchoring trade off (you can anchor this, but then you can't anchor that).

As for a moving cloaker, good lord how fast do you think those ships go? Get in front with a few guys and start dropping drones. Have a viator get in front and start dropping cans with cheap ass t1 drones, pop them and deploy a cloud of them, or shuttles. A viator fit for speed and not cloaked could get ahead of the cloaked ship to start setting up the debris field.

Also, once again:

http://interstellarprivateer.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/unbreaking-local/

Read about the new feature added to cyno jammer:



If he isn't decloaked you'll know he doesn't have a covert ops cyno and a covert ops cloak. If you having an issue running him down probably just a covert ops cloak, maybe a regular cyno, but you can always check dotlan to see how much of a threat that is. And if he does have a covert ops cloak and covert ops cyno, well then he is very dead when combined with scan probes.

These things will almost surely kill AFK cloaking.

My opinion, and this could equally be referred to as an educated guess, is that cloaking will only be viable in situations where the target forces have intel making other options cost ineffective.

The cloaked ship is not the one you will be attacked by. They will be the guys opening the doors for the real threats.

Your intel system will be the target, the moment it can be taken down.
It will be hot dropped, and then the real fighting ships will swarm in through your gates.

Why, you might ask?
Because it is the cost effective means of attack, short of a blob fleet.
If I can send in a BLOPs group, to take out the intel centers in 5 separate systems, I just created a shell game.
You can bet your forces to cover each system, splitting them 5 ways.
You can gamble that I will direct a roam / mini fleet at one spot, and concentrate your forces there.

I, on the other hand, may let you report intel for me.
I can send a scout to each system, where I expect your forces to gather, and see where they show up.
I am betting you send in protection where it is needed, and that tells me where your vulnerability is.
Then I send in a feint, at what I expect is a second rate target. If you move your forces to cover, I go for the primary.
If you leave your forces protecting the primary, it confirms the value, and I take out the secondary almost unopposed.

If you split your forces, I actually do have to guess, unless I already know. Then I simply plow over the hardest to reinforce location and tackle that target.
I am not expecting heavy losses when you are not there to defend, and I can always attack my real target another night.

It is a game.

Read Nikk's proposal again please.

Go ahead, AFK cloak and set yourself moving, and you'll die. Every time. Why? Because you wont be able to go fast enough to get away. I've checked a hound with a total speed fit. Three Overdrive Injector System's II, two Small Auxiliary Thruster rigs, and with my skills this ship would zip along at 488m/s while cloaked. Pretty good, but once visible to everyone, I'd die. You'd just need to manipulate a grid in front of me so that it is large enough so when I enter it your dramiel can burn to me in few seconds, provide a warp in and there. My ship is dead. Two seconds later, I'm many systems away in station after you kill my pod.

(Oh, and hint for you--with Nikk's method of detecting a cloaked ship, at a certain point, you become visible to everyone.)



Errrm, what about that fleet of 2,000 dudes you were worried about holed up in a station system? Are we abandoning that problem? Now it is small to mid sized gangs of cloaked ships?

And if there is a sov based intel system, you'd still be seen coming. A cloaked ship would not render you invisible to this new system. It would render you invisible in any given system, but jumping gates would require you to decloak, as it works now, and you'd be visible to the intel system.

You keep pretending this is not part of the system I've linked in responses to you at least a half dozen times.



I'm talking about your editorializing in that list. To you it was, "OP, OP!!!" all the way down. Yes that is a simplification, but it shows you don't want to accept any change, even if the change in risk is, in general, offset by a new intel system that provides you with just as good intel as you currently get, but one you have to work for, maintain, and defend.



It makes perfect sense Lucas, it means your argument is invalid as it does not factor in the fact that fleet combat will adapt to the new intel environment. You can't envision a way forward in the new environment thus, there is no way foreward in the new environment...you are much like Bob.

And once again, intel infrastructure would be vulnerable to attack. Sending in a smaller group of pilots to knock out the intel system in a number of systems would in effect "blind" both sides. Or to to use a quote from Wrath of Khan,

So again we're talking a decloak pulse, which would affect active cloakers, which is what you guys are saying is a bad thing.

Please reread what you are quoting. 2000 guys sitting in station is the problem of the sov based intel. An aggressor would NOT BE ABLE TO TELL how many defenders are ready to deploy. Once they are committed to the fight (ie dreads sieged) it would be like a 2000 man login trap.
The original comment I made about everyone wanting to be a cloakers was for SMALL GANGS, NOT FLEET FIGHTS. You are mixing up quotes, and getting yourself confused.
Where is the part of the system that stops a sov holder having intel while agressors have none?

LOL. Bullshit. You want only a change which starts with remove local. You will bash any other idea. I DON'T ACCEPT YOUR CHANGE. I accept OTHER CHANGES, but not YOUR CHANGE. Just because you've presented your idea 500 times, does not mean I've rejected 500 ideas, I've rejected a single idea 500 times.

Except the act of moving in to kill of an intel structure in itself gives the defender even more intel. You clearly know absolutely nothing about fleet combat if you think that such a massive change would simply be adapted to. Honestly, sov would become even more of a blob situation than it currently is, since the only way to guarantee a win would be to jump in and hit population cap before the other side, so their intel meant nothing.

At the end of the day you want to chuck in several ideas, all so make up for flaws put in by your original idea of removing local. You then want to cross your fingers and hope that the null groups are able to adapt and it doesn't become a massive one sided fight for the defender. And all for what? What is the benefit? All so solo players can score some easy kills. Honestly, I don't think ideas can get more moronic than that.
And whats most ridiculous is the ideas you are talking about adding to compensate for local being destroyed are the very same ideas you have been complaining against all along.

Without a delcoak pulse (which would affect active cloakers) your wouldn't be able to see him. you could be 5km away on the same grid and STILL not see him. You would not be able to tell if he was AFK or not.

Nerfing local will nerf A LOT MORE though. And I'm not asking for CLOAKS TO BE NERFED. I'm asking for the AFK CLOAKS to be removed. I want NO CHANGES to active cloak mechanics.

Also, the changes you ask for would NOT NERF ALL CLOAKS. It would make cloaking require more activity, but reward that activity by making active cloakers the most powerful class in the game. The only class to fully bypass intel.

Of course I question your English, you seem to quote people and say something completely unrelated. I can only think that either you are dumping it into Google translate and something is getting lost in translation or you are purposely trying to twist everything people say to work in your favor.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Present a good and well balanced idea for local and cloak mechanics and I'll consider it. What you are currently supporting is NOT balanced and would break a lot of EVE. Sure, it would benefit YOU, but it would be a nightmare to play for everyone else.

Because that is bullshit. You want changes to local. You agree to some things you would be willing to "pay" to get that. To an active cloaker a pulse would have no effect, so to you, you get the benefit of no local, but no downsides. Of course you support that.

I want a change which targets ONLY AFK CLOAKERS, so to maintain the current balance between active players.

Like I've said you will ONLY consider an idea if it starts with "Remove Local", because that is what you want. You don't care about the actual aim of the secondary idea, as long as your local idea comes first. I can only assume this is because you realise that removing local is an idea rejected by most of the playerbase, so you feel the need to try to nest it inside other ideas to get it accepted in bulk. Like trying to sell a ****** item by putting it in a contract with a whole bunch of good items.

HAHAHA. So you're back to this. Quote me and say something totally unrelated to try to troll me.
What's hilarious is this isn't even remotely related to what I want. This is what YOU ARE SAYING is a benefit of your idea. YOU are saying it will resolve AFK cloak issues, I have shown it won't. So you've just straight back to "waah, certainty".
So in short what you are saying is
"remove local, to resolve afk cloaking, then add a new mechanic to put afk cloaking back in".
Just... lol.

Why should an active cloaker face downsides? The issue in these threads is always:

1. AFK cloaking shutting down systems.
2. People complaining about AFK cloakers want people to be at the keyboard to influence the game.

These two things imply that active cloakers are not the problem.



Yes Lucas, we know you want to have your cake and eat it too. Reduce your risk and keep the rewards, we understood that along time ago, but that is unbalanced.

You asked why I suddenly had no problem with a limited decloaking pulse. I pointed out I'm in favor of nerfing cloaks and local. Hence your error. You thought you understood my position, but you were wrong.

Why should the whole of the game EXCEPT active cloakers suffer downsides? That's what you want.

Again that makes NO SENSE. I don;t want to have my cake and eat it to. IT DOES NOT AFFECT ME IN THE SLIGHTEST. I HONESTLY DON'T CARE IF IT STAYS AS IS. Understand? Leave null void of people, who the **** cares.

YOU want active cloakers to have more benefits
YOU want all other playstyles to be nerfed.
So who really wants everything? YOU DO.

Again you are just trolling at this point. You have no way to argue the points so instead you just attack me. Bravo troll, go back to your bridge.