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SP game breaking for new players. Please take your time to read this CCP.

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Baggo Hammers
#801 - 2013-10-10 16:57:53 UTC
I hear WoW and the other elf games are getting rid of levels so you can raid from day one! Better get going!

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
ravill rivyll
Doomheim
#802 - 2013-10-10 17:40:44 UTC
The two weeks old character can make same money as three months old char and in near time can pvp aswell with small ships there is nothing breaking about it. Only thing that breakes game is selling characters that are already trained. People want insta action ala going to party and f*cking girls on parket while dancing .. please go kill yourself. I am sick of this attitude.. I cant play bcs of IRL I cant afford that and blah give me all cause I am so poor everybody should get the same chance. NO it shouldnt .Life is not fair nor shouldnt be this game. Personaly I thrive on those sad people who cant get their ass off to do something and if you dont want to then leave and go cry somewhere to corner how pathetic you are. I mean its not even grind you just sit and wait for skill to train up yet I see waterfalls of tears.. srsly I smell estrogen from posts like this go cut off your d*ck...
Scyther Vrynn
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#803 - 2013-10-10 18:52:10 UTC
Man, this game is great mainly because its a really long run, You are nothing and slowly becoming something. Eve is not for everybody and it never will be. If you want to be superhero from the start, go and play WoW or similar.
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#804 - 2013-10-10 21:40:32 UTC
I have not read this entire threadnaught, but I think the OP raises a very legitimate point. Here's what I'm currently running into:

I have multiple accounts, and I'm really frustrated that DESPITE the fact that I'm trying to train these toons for very different things, I still spend months and months grinding the EXACT same SP on each toon. If you're a miner or a trader, things are a little different. But if you want to truly partake in "internet spaceships" then there's just an excessive number of skills that need to be trained.

My proposal:

Remove fitting skills. EVE would still have PLENTY of hardcore to go around without WU, AWU, Energy Grid Upgrades, Electronics Upgrades, Shield Upgrades, etc. And refund the SP to those of us who trained those up. That way n00bs get playing the game faster, and I can actually take those SP and further specialize my characters.

Bacon makes us stronger
Frank Millar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#805 - 2013-10-11 10:03:15 UTC
Jezus f'ing Christ on a pogo stick. Cry
ravill rivyll
Doomheim
#806 - 2013-10-11 10:09:46 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
I have not read this entire threadnaught, but I think the OP raises a very legitimate point. Here's what I'm currently running into:

I have multiple accounts, and I'm really frustrated that DESPITE the fact that I'm trying to train these toons for very different things, I still spend months and months grinding the EXACT same SP on each toon. If you're a miner or a trader, things are a little different. But if you want to truly partake in "internet spaceships" then there's just an excessive number of skills that need to be trained.

My proposal:

Remove fitting skills. EVE would still have PLENTY of hardcore to go around without WU, AWU, Energy Grid Upgrades, Electronics Upgrades, Shield Upgrades, etc. And refund the SP to those of us who trained those up. That way n00bs get playing the game faster, and I can actually take those SP and further specialize my characters.



Somebody put this looser out his misery please.. what about removing your multiboxing characters. Shh dont cry..
Tigerras
Smash Incorporated
#807 - 2013-10-11 14:04:46 UTC
I propose that CCP installs a button on the UI. This button instantly makes the game act like you have all skills to lvl 5 for 10 minutes. Then the button is inactive for 24 hours, during which you cannot train any actual skills (queue pauses and unpauses automatically for you). That way the newbies can get their taste of Pew Pew without having to dedicate time to subscribing to the game.

We can call it the Niwi button. Goes well with the Aura help AI.
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#808 - 2013-10-11 15:39:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Carmen Electra
ravill rivyll wrote:
Somebody put this looser out his misery please.. what about removing your multiboxing characters. Shh dont cry..


Actually, I'd love to get rid of my alts. If CCP could find a way to reliable way to enforce one account per person, I'd be totally supportive. Unfortunately, multi-boxing is kind of a must-have in this game. (Otherwise, why do so many people have more than one account?)

All I'm saying is that I should be able to train two characters to do totally different things without spending months training the exact same SP on both.

Bacon makes us stronger
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#809 - 2013-10-12 06:40:14 UTC
huh. multiboxing. never really considered it a priority. seven years after creation this char still doesn't have ALL the fitting skills trained... I had other things to do and a short attention span. the funny thing is I thought I was playing the game the moment I undocked on that crappy tutorial I went through wayback, was I mistaken? those times I died in a fire while still trying to figure out what was going on... were those just the fevered imaginings of a newb who just hadn't spent the required six months grinding the necessary skills for explosive decompression? You're playing the game as soon as you decide to play the game. Seems like people are getting far too hung up on what they can't do yet instead of exploring what they can do. My suggestion is to abandon the linear escalation concept that is ingrained into nearly all other mmo's and stop trying to focus on some imagined endgame. Enjoy the journey, that's what it's really about... it ends when you decide it ends.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
ravill rivyll
Doomheim
#810 - 2013-10-12 12:04:36 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
ravill rivyll wrote:
Somebody put this looser out his misery please.. what about removing your multiboxing characters. Shh dont cry..


Actually, I'd love to get rid of my alts. If CCP could find a way to reliable way to enforce one account per person, I'd be totally supportive. Unfortunately, multi-boxing is kind of a must-have in this game. (Otherwise, why do so many people have more than one account?)

All I'm saying is that I should be able to train two characters to do totally different things without spending months training the exact same SP on both.


Look now I will be serious. You dont have to use alts. I am 4 mil. SP char. I can make enough ISKs to pay with plex and I can buy nearly any ship I need for this stage in game. (And its my only acc...) Well I am not into industry or mining nor I dont have leadership skills but thats a part life you cant be specialized in everything. People who are multiboxing do it from some reason and can afford it. Do you want to have cyno character ? Suit yourself... Do you want pirate character ? Suit yourself... but always pay for it and dont cry that you are forced to do it. Your character is not ment to be specialized in everything. But if you want you can make another acc. Its absolutely optional. You are not creating alt you are creating another character specialized in different branch of gameplay. If you have to be multiboxing to enjoy game or be succesful then you are doing it wrong and its only your problem...
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#811 - 2013-10-12 12:31:25 UTC
This is still on going? You know what the main problem is, you have no patience. And you know what the 2nd problem is? You have the perception you need xx mill SP to do something.

You can mine at any skill level, you can pvp at any skil level, you can do ANYTHING at any skill level. You just want the best right away. Talk about instant gratification.

This character is about 5 months old, so yes I do know what you're talking about. It's not that the game or the skill system is broken, it's just that you're one of those kids who doesn't know how to play in a sandbox without being handed all the toys, shapes and little spades first.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#812 - 2013-10-12 13:26:29 UTC
ravill rivyll wrote:

Look now I will be serious. You dont have to use alts. I am 4 mil. SP char. I can make enough ISKs to pay with plex and I can buy nearly any ship I need for this stage in game. (And its my only acc...) Well I am not into industry or mining nor I dont have leadership skills but thats a part life you cant be specialized in everything. People who are multiboxing do it from some reason and can afford it. Do you want to have cyno character ? Suit yourself... Do you want pirate character ? Suit yourself... but always pay for it and dont cry that you are forced to do it. Your character is not ment to be specialized in everything. But if you want you can make another acc. Its absolutely optional. You are not creating alt you are creating another character specialized in different branch of gameplay. If you have to be multiboxing to enjoy game or be succesful then you are doing it wrong and its only your problem...

This. The multiboxing thing made me twitch. I have played on EQ emulator servers in the past where everyone six-boxed their characters to accomplish everything... end result was that it was impossible to find a group to participate in because... everyone had a full group of their multibox alts. I hate doing this, I mean I really really really hate doing this... as a full fledged people hating curmudgeon I have to say... play with other people instead of alts? The interaction with other players is what makes EVE go... and even as the EVE equivalent of the crazy guy living under the bench in the park I have to recognize this. When you multibox you're hurting your own chances at having fun with other people... and you're reducing their opportunities to do the same. The reason you can't do everything awesome right away is because the game is designed to make you work/play/murder with other people in order to get the really good stuff going on. As I said before, there is no endgame unless you want there to be one. The real point is to have fun, and that doesn't require skillpoints. If you doubt this, go to C&P and check out Zappity's Adventures, a fine example of a low SP character making the most of their time. Anyways, I just realized I'm building a wall. Fly safe.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Asaryuu
Liquid Words
#813 - 2013-10-13 03:30:31 UTC
ravill rivyll wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
[quote=ravill rivyll]Somebody put this looser out his misery please.. what about removing your multiboxing characters. Shh dont cry..


I am 4 mil. SP char. I can make enough ISKs to pay with plex and I can buy nearly any ship I need for this stage in game.



If you don't mind me asking what do you do in game that enables you to buy a plex?
ravill rivyll
Doomheim
#814 - 2013-10-13 23:53:59 UTC
Roaming nullsec relic sites can easily earn you over 100 mil. per hour if you are lucky... But the most profit comes from selling virgins and enslaving minmatars..
Ras Al-Gul
My My Miya
#815 - 2013-10-19 21:32:05 UTC
Hefty TheFirst wrote:
Hi,

So I have come to like more "mature" MMOS and eve struck me as one of the best.
I started playing 2 months ago and just lost all the friends I brought into eve.

This game is simply way too punishing for new players. Just to be slightly effective it takes about 1.5 years of training.
Then you have some of the basics and can still not do anything special.
My first month of eve was great... But it was all just theoretical fun. All I did was plan stuff and study about the game and it's mechanics. So I brought 4 of my friends in which all payed for 1 month + trial. They loved the first month of eve and into the seconds month they all saw just how truly pathetic they were in terms of SP. Everything they wanted to do was years of training away. I was going to quit as well until I heard of the character bazaar. So I dropped a huge load of $ to buy a pilot that could actually play the game.

I am sure the long SP training ques are CCP's way of "milking" $ out of us.
Which proves a point to me. Every one that I have spoken to that plays eve has at least 1-4 alts.
So that in itself proves how low the game population actually is.
Now this isn't a troll or whining thread.
If CCP truly wanted to make more $ something needs to be done about SP.
The longer the game progresses the more useless new players become.
Could you imagine starting to play WOW right now and have to grind through all of those expansions just to start playing the game at 90... Then the game only starts right?

So this is as constructive as a new player can get.
I am not mad in any way. I actually want to help eve grow, that's the whole reason of this thread.
I want to know if anything is being done about the huge SP brick wall.
From what I am seeing the summer change is making it even harder for new players.
Battle cruisers were a huge win for new players as it didn't take too long to fly them and now it's even taking that small win away from new players.

So all I am asking is what is being done about this huge problem EVE faces?
Who can I talk to about this to make it apparent?
This game is truly great but how does any new player have a chance at experiencing that greatness?
I truly want to see this game grow so help me talk to the right people.
If I could talk to the right people I could really guarantee new players sticking around instead of getting discouraged and quitting.

Regards: Hefty
Ras Al-Gul
My My Miya
#816 - 2013-10-19 21:34:35 UTC
Hefty TheFirst wrote:
Hi,

So I have come to like more "mature" MMOS and eve struck me as one of the best.
I started playing 2 months ago and just lost all the friends I brought into eve.

This game is simply way too punishing for new players. Just to be slightly effective it takes about 1.5 years of training.
Then you have some of the basics and can still not do anything special.
My first month of eve was great... But it was all just theoretical fun. All I did was plan stuff and study about the game and it's mechanics. So I brought 4 of my friends in which all payed for 1 month + trial. They loved the first month of eve and into the seconds month they all saw just how truly pathetic they were in terms of SP. Everything they wanted to do was years of training away. I was going to quit as well until I heard of the character bazaar. So I dropped a huge load of $ to buy a pilot that could actually play the game.

I am sure the long SP training ques are CCP's way of "milking" $ out of us.
Which proves a point to me. Every one that I have spoken to that plays eve has at least 1-4 alts.
So that in itself proves how low the game population actually is.
Now this isn't a troll or whining thread.
If CCP truly wanted to make more $ something needs to be done about SP.
The longer the game progresses the more useless new players become.
Could you imagine starting to play WOW right now and have to grind through all of those expansions just to start playing the game at 90... Then the game only starts right?

So this is as constructive as a new player can get.
I am not mad in any way. I actually want to help eve grow, that's the whole reason of this thread.
I want to know if anything is being done about the huge SP brick wall.
From what I am seeing the summer change is making it even harder for new players.
Battle cruisers were a huge win for new players as it didn't take too long to fly them and now it's even taking that small win away from new players.

So all I am asking is what is being done about this huge problem EVE faces?
Who can I talk to about this to make it apparent?
This game is truly great but how does any new player have a chance at experiencing that greatness?
I truly want to see this game grow so help me talk to the right people.
If I could talk to the right people I could really guarantee new players sticking around instead of getting discouraged and quitting.

Regards: Hefty


Hefty,

I started playing eve about a year and a half ago, I tried Eve for the same reasons most did, a love of sci-fi, exhaustion from the more "ADHD intensive" games around and also a desire for a game that you see steady progress and a wide array of choices to spend your time/efforts on.

Now to the "issues" you brought up in your post:

I believe you do not quite understand what eve offers if you are complaining about the SP system and let me explain why.

When I first started playing I went through the entire tutorial system, it provided me with my first few frigates, my first destroyer and my first industrial ship, and around 15m isk when I was done with them. This intro into what professions(generally) you could train for was great, and I decided I enjoy security missions and wanted to PvP.

I genuinely loved being able to learn and fly my first frigates well, and when I first hopped into my destroyer it felt like a huge jump.

I joined red vs blue and pvped with frigates, and did lvl 2 and 3 security missions in my destroyer until I could *properly pilot a BC or BS for lvl 4s.

What I think you are missing or choosing to ignore is that there is much to be had for any player, I am even envious of newer playersehen they first get a shiny new frigate they haven't tried before, its a great feeling.

When you conpaired this game to WoW and reaching lvl 90 you showed that you completely missed what makes eve different.

There is no end game here, there is only what you enjoy doing, and you don't need all skills lvl5 to do anything in this game.

Do skills help, obviously, but its all what you enjoy anyways, and if you are not enjoying what your doing while your skills train up......you do not get this game......

Hop in a frigate, t1, with a good fit, t2 if you can, go and shoot some stuff, explore, trade etc.
Arrins Uta
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#817 - 2013-10-21 02:42:26 UTC
Asaryuu wrote:
ravill rivyll wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
[quote=ravill rivyll]Somebody put this looser out his misery please.. what about removing your multiboxing characters. Shh dont cry..


I am 4 mil. SP char. I can make enough ISKs to pay with plex and I can buy nearly any ship I need for this stage in game.



If you don't mind me asking what do you do in game that enables you to buy a plex?


I can plex my account as well at a little over 2 or 3 mill. Run sansha sites or what ever get bountys move to another or salvage that one then move. When I was actively hitting sites I would clear in about 14 minutes making about 10 mill a site not to mention salvage stuff. Its easy to make idk after at least the first month of skill training. Like someone else said people are to caught up on what they can't do. I was for a little bit but now im focused on frigate fw which is alot of fun lose some win some. I fly small and large cleets with my corp and play an active role in them.

People just need to enjoy each and every step of the game. Would you goto the great wall of China just to **** and moan about not walking to the other end instantly? No.
Giullare
The Candyman is Back
#818 - 2013-10-21 08:31:24 UTC
Hefty TheFirst wrote:
Hi,

So I have come to like more "mature" MMOS and eve struck me as one of the best.
I started playing 2 months ago and just lost all the friends I brought into eve.

This game is simply way too punishing for new players.

.........

Regards: Hefty



I wasn't whining on forums when i had to train learning skills and every day i see CCP helps even more new players.
I play this game since 2007, what have you done for this company instead?


Hellokittyonline -----> that way
Frank Millar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#819 - 2013-10-21 10:23:54 UTC
Guys, guys...

Hefty ain't here. He hasn't been here for a long time.
Giullare
The Candyman is Back
#820 - 2013-10-21 12:43:25 UTC
Verba volant scripta manent.
For all who will come to this thread