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SP game breaking for new players. Please take your time to read this CCP.

First post First post
Author
Mr Aurilen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#821 - 2013-10-21 18:36:02 UTC
If you and your friends can't handle the learning curve then leave. The current system is fine how it is.
Incontinentia Deretana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#822 - 2013-10-22 14:55:45 UTC
Hefty TheFirst wrote:
Am I speaking the wrong language?
This is a serious discussion sidetracked by trolls.

So all I am asking is what is being done about this huge problem EVE faces?
Who can I talk to about this to make it apparent?
This game is truly great but how does any new player have a chance at experiencing that greatness?

Three simple questions.
Zero answers... Will Hefty prevail in finding the answers on the broken internet!?
Find out on the next post. /commence epic outro!



What you wrote about is a non-problem: intended to work this way. So many people go away early because this isn't the game for them, that's all. God bless CCP, they made a game with a strong natural selection and only the patient and motivated people remain.
Yolo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#823 - 2013-10-23 02:49:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Yolo
Some goals are far and hard, you need to think about the fun you can have on the way.

Cheap frigates and factionwarfare.

Unlike WOW, EVE does not start with endgame, it starts from day 1.

Best thing CCP could do would be to sort market by skills, by default. so newbies stop drooling over commandships, Supers and Titans and start making skillplans that will last years

- since 2003, bitches

Sadatay Foont
#824 - 2013-10-23 21:27:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sadatay Foont
I am 6 weeks old. I can run level 4s like a champ. Granted, I have friends to buy me ships, but skill-wise I am sound.
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Sadatay_Foont



So can we end this. The OP has died of old age.
Mdes Ormand
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#825 - 2013-10-23 21:57:29 UTC
Sadatay Foont wrote:
I am 6 weeks old. I can run level 4s like a champ. Granted, I have friends to buy me ships, but skill-wise I am sound.
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Sadatay_Foont



So can we end this. The OP has died of old age.


sorry but just curious how can you run level 4s with cruisers or destroyers or frigates. i havent done any L4s but i am really wondering how can you run them with frigate level 3 destroyer level 3 or cruiser level 3? Maybe it is time i should give it a try for L4s. There are obviously older players who can understand better but i cant imagine you are doing L4s.
Sadatay Foont
#826 - 2013-10-23 22:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sadatay Foont
Mdes Ormand wrote:
Sadatay Foont wrote:
I am 6 weeks old. I can run level 4s like a champ. Granted, I have friends to buy me ships, but skill-wise I am sound.
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Sadatay_Foont



So can we end this. The OP has died of old age.


sorry but just curious how can you run level 4s with cruisers or destroyers or frigates. i havent done any L4s but i am really wondering how can you run them with frigate level 3 destroyer level 3 or cruiser level 3? Maybe it is time i should give it a try for L4s. There are obviously older players who can understand better but i cant imagine you are doing L4s.



I use a Gila. Fits vary by mission of course. The backbone is T2 sentries with lights for frigs that get in.

Within the context of this stupid thread the point is that SP are not the issue. Experience is. CCP cannot fix that.
Enochx Kaine
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#827 - 2013-10-24 21:19:15 UTC
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
Hefty TheFirst wrote:
Admiral Adamsgate wrote:
Total Bull, skillpoints mean nothing. Knowledge and the friends you make is how to succeed in EVE.


Really?

Lets analyze what you just said.
  • Friends mean everything.
    All of mine quit.

  • Skill points mean nothing.
    The reason why my friends quit.

  • Knowledge means everything.
  • I have knowledge of things I want to do.
    How far away am I to do them? 1-2 years away.
    Wait that long? Never...

    Please this is a "mature" discussion.
    EDIT: Personal attack quote deleted - ISD Tyrozan


    I'm willing to bet your friends quit because the combat system is lacking. In half a year you can be flying dessies and T2 frigs highly effectively, or have rushed T1 battlecruisers and flying them at rank V with appropriate weapons skills. Or have rushed BSs and flying them well enough to be doing lv 4 missions solo.


    I only read the first page becasue....well I thats all I felt like reading...but this is true. I only have 3.5 million SP's and I am far from being usless. I can tackle.....I can run a rep boat and keep my peoples alive. I can fly a T1 battlecruiser jsut as good as anyone else. (well almost....I still need my armor up to level 5) and you know what keeps me here in the game? In a year I should be able to fly bombers, interdictors, or battleships (probably sooner than that) or maybe I will go T2 BC's orr who knows what. I am still planning, but far from being usless.
    OllieNorth
    Recidivists Incorporated
    #828 - 2013-10-25 03:23:19 UTC
    It's been long established, and I mean literally for years, that the person who thinks that they can't do anything until they get 'x million SP' is exactly the person who needs to be weeded out. There are so many niches in this game that you can fill with low SP. The person who complains because they can't 'compete' with the old characters here isn't anyone I want to play with, that's for sure.
    Sable Moran
    Moran Light Industries
    #829 - 2013-10-25 09:46:09 UTC
    OllieNorth wrote:
    the person who thinks that they can't do anything until they get 'x million SP' is exactly the person who needs to be weeded out


    There's so much truth in that sentence that it bears quoting. +1

    Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

    Lloyd Roses
    Artificial Memories
    #830 - 2013-10-25 13:05:39 UTC
    It's just great when you're looking to recruit people, and they open the speech with *i just bought this 90mil SP toon, recruit me, you won't find anyone better!* - *Do you know what a logofftrap is?* - *No, but my carrier does 1200dps with sentries!*

    ...

    ...

    Buying a senoir cap pilot: 20bn. Experience: priceless.
    Tibo Paralian
    Dirt 'n' Glitter
    Local Is Primary
    #831 - 2013-10-25 16:28:30 UTC
    Great turn out for yesterday's mass test, I wonder why.
    Lia Danna
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #832 - 2013-10-29 21:11:20 UTC
    Posting in this thread is the thing to do, so I'm doing it!

    Seriously though, CCP have already been addressing this in the RIGHT way. Some of the changes they have made (specifically the t1 frig/dessie/cruiser buff) have definitely been geared toward making the game less SP intensive. Personally I don't see anything wrong with that.
    Fragem666
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #833 - 2013-11-04 22:35:45 UTC
    Whine Whine Whine.

    My main started in 2009 and had a hard time then quit in March 2011. Now I'm back with 20.4 million skill points. The key to having success as a new player is to stick within your means and SP.
    By the way I now fly a CNR with a mix of faction fit and T2 and I make about 150 million isk a day playing casually.
    Luis Alejandro Flores
    Consume Obey
    #834 - 2013-11-05 19:50:22 UTC
    EVE is fine as is. If you don't like it, please contract all of your belongings to me for safekeeping. Then biomass your character to spare yourself further humiliation.

    Ayyy LMAO.

    Marcus Walkuris
    Aww yeahhh
    #835 - 2013-11-07 19:46:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Walkuris
    It isn't the SP that is game breaking for newbies.
    I feel like ppl can be elite all they want but there is the learning cliff everyone knows about.
    You can beat on your chest about EvE being so hardcore we are all well endowed.
    But the fact remains that people that try EvE have to be impressed by the surroundings and the always present danger and relaxing space mixture, vs the sheer complexity of it all.
    We can all act hardcore but most of us were guided by other players to understand EvE, it should be done by a serious tutorial.
    Even the current is still presented in somewhat of a vacuum, doesn't take into consideration unrealistic expectancies.
    Like people figuring if a hull has no bonuses besides drones they can just fit lasers, there are so many things out there that can shatter someone's expectancy pattern and leave them feeling stranded on an island.

    Maybe a way to filter all say: Capacitor related skills, all insert category of your wish.
    Or update the certificates to actually offer some meaning in this.
    I find myself telling people that played for months about capacitor importance when they fly Amarr.
    Stress the importance of such things, as well as things super important but completely left out.
    Like the 1 second server ticks and how they affect drone dps when giving attack commands.
    The most important things can be overlooked so easily and for a fresh toon this can be devastating.

    P.S. Module icon changes would really help too, the different symbols are so small its like a scribble.
    And there is little uniformity or reference to them.
    They are changing some names now though which helps, like not calling a certain type of AC "confetti launcher" but "insert type" AC.
    Herzav
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #836 - 2013-11-07 22:54:35 UTC
    I will be talking from the point of view from a person that has never played eve before, has just heard about it not long ago.

    I first signed up for the 14 day trial, wasn't very interested in it but I slowly got hooked in, put it this way, the SP system works in a similar way to the grinding in your today cliche MMORPGS., Don't expect to be able to fly all that shiny stuff in less than a few months, gear does help in a certain way but experience is worth a lot more.

    While this char is less than 1 month old, It still shares the same problems as the newbies,however, you must remember that this is not your typical solo game, while you can certainly play solo, it's a lot harder than joining up with a group of people that will help you get set up in your first initial days/weeks/months.

    TLDR:Join a corp, like you, I too used to think that not being in a corp wasn't a big deal, reality check, it HELPS A LOT.
    TLDRR: I do not mind the SP system, you want instant gratification? go play COD or WOW.

    I am a highsec bear
    Bethan Le Troix
    Krusual Investigation Agency
    #837 - 2013-11-10 12:52:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Bethan Le Troix
    What you are asking for is dumbing down of the game. We do not want anything like this to happen.

    I think it is probably good for new pilots to specialize their skills at the start. At the moment I would suggest looking at PI (Planetary Interaction) rather than any thoughts of mining. Prices for PI are very good atm compared to most mineral prices which are down the toilet.

    Combine this with training of ships in a race of your choice for combat/missions/ganking and away you go. Have fun. Smile

    I forgot to mention corporations. You should definitely join a player run corporation. EVE University has a good reputation from where you can learn the basics. There is that other one as well that I can't remember the name of - the one where hordes of new players in frigates go off doing PvP. Sounds like fun to me.

    I would also suggest it is not a good idea for new players to go off and start a corporation themselves straight away. This can go wrong in so many ways and be a lot of hassle.
    IIshira
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #838 - 2013-11-10 18:40:41 UTC
    Luis Alejandro Flores wrote:
    EVE is fine as is. If you don't like it, please contract all of your belongings to me for safekeeping. Then biomass your character to spare yourself further humiliation.


    +1 to this. The only change would be to contract your stuff to me. I will make good use of that carrier you bought but were upset you couldn't fly Big smile
    IIshira
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #839 - 2013-11-10 18:52:01 UTC
    Herzav wrote:

    TLDR:Join a corp, like you, I too used to think that not being in a corp wasn't a big deal, reality check, it HELPS A LOT.


    This is the best advice anyone can give. Eve is not a solo game and can't be played without the support of others. You can try to minimize this support but you're only hurting yourself.

    As for the guy with no friends... If your RL friends quit Eve for one reason or another find a corp that has your interests and make in game friends. The guy that got me into Eve has the attention span of a five year old when it comes to games. He'll play a game, quit after a few weeks then find a new game. I didn't let this cause me to fail at Eve. This game isn't for everyone so if you don't like the basic concepts of the game find a game you do like. Eve will grow and change but concepts like SP and the "wild west" rules probably will always be the same.
    Thane Shimaya
    Ascendance
    Goonswarm Federation
    #840 - 2013-11-12 16:39:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Thane Shimaya
    The original poster sheds too many tears. The steep learning cliff has been a well established fact for many years, and any prospective player will learn that from reading even one review of the game. It is something that makes EVE unique and niche.
    We like it that way.

    That being said, a player's amount of skill points is completely unrelated to the potential amount of fun to be had. When I first left the tutorial system, it felt just as it did when I graduated high school and got kicked out of home to make it on my own. Inexperienced, poor, unemployed, and facing a cold, harsh world that doesn't give a damn. And as in real life, I worked hard to survive, learned all that I could from friends and mentors, and I even had fun if you can believe it!

    I started playing about two years ago, and I still consider myself poor and inexperienced, but I have had more fun with this game than almost any other I've gotten into. Skill points may have determined what ships I could fly and what modules I could equip, but from Day One I had a universe before me and I was determined to enjoy everything I could uncover in it.

    EVE is not a game that will just give you anything or guide you by the hand like a child. Go play WoW if that interests you. If you want bigger and better things you sometimes have to *work* for it. That's something that makes EVE unique.
    We like it that way.

    Well. This changes things...