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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Tex Bloodhunter
SciFiCentral Explorations Inc.
#1561 - 2013-10-10 12:07:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tex Bloodhunter
Double post, delete plz
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1562 - 2013-10-10 12:16:12 UTC
Ambassador Spock wrote:
I've been following this thread since day one and can I just say that when 90% of the past 20 pages are the same 3-4 people re-hashing the same idea over and over (and 50% of those are one guy...), maybe it is time for everyone to step back, shut up, and wait for CCP Rise to come back and give us some more info...

I love the ships as they stand now, but I don't think we can really have anymore reasonable discussion until CCP Rise comes back.

CCP RISE, A quite different suggestion,
I agree everyone should now wait for your decision,

Would it be possible to have a new piece of equipment, one which fits in with the concept and feel of EVE ?

May I suggest the. FORUM SMARTBOMB,

It would save so much stress.
Thank you.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1563 - 2013-10-10 12:22:55 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Another potential bonus I've had in mind although it would require significantly more iteration be done on the hacking game is that a ship grant a total of 4 or even 5 utility slots in the minigame instead of the usual 3. This would be more useful if we could take utility items between minigames, as it was once stated we may eventually be able to.

I believe they (might) be working on the ability to keep any unused utility items you find and also sell them on the market.

Expanded utility slots would be a great addition for Covert Ops/Explotarion Frigates IMO

Quote:
Honestly the extra utility slot idea is so far the best one I have heard in this entire thread and one I can fully support especially if you can sell them later or if they are transferable from site to site. will make the mini-game super easy though.

It was during the testing phase of the mini-game for odyssey but I can no longer point you as to where it would be exactly.
Now for what I was getting to, If I remember correctly they made mention that if/once the utility items you get from the mini-game were able to be kept and bought/sold on the market they would have to tweak the mini-game a bit to compensate.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
MiMozO
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1564 - 2013-10-10 12:37:45 UTC
Quote:
the problem is you are introducing multiple new game mechanics that would take months of coding just to make one ship a special snowflake. the gain to work ratio is not viable and the concentration of new mechanics players will need to learn just because of one ship is also not fair. you will need to justify applying these mechanics to other ships to make it viable.
your best is to take one single new mechanic and reason how that one mechanic can be applied to multiple ships while staying balanced. if you want to be taken seriously focusing on single or small changes will be better than random expansive flights of fancy where every suggestion is bigger and more special than the previous.

I know that I brought up quite a big thing. I don't see multiple mechanics here though. The only thing which will need a lot of coding is a defender missiles overhaul. And that mechanics isn't bound to these ships only. You can easily introduce some new recons later using those defenders to protect their fleet, it would need a little tweak of course, but still. Besides, try to compare this mechanics to, say, heavy interdictors. Is it that bigger than bubble generating module mechanics? We didn't get new ships mechanics for quite a long time. It would be a good chance now, considering we are getting new faction ships, and not just new, but ships from a faction which never introduced any.
Other things, like bonus damage to drones and bonus for EW drones should not be that much of a problem I think. It will be just a tweaked bonuses, which already exist. But I can't say for sure of course.

Quote:

that isnt to say that your sugestions are bad in any way but you have to expect some degree of doubt as to the viability of being able to implement even a single one of your sugestions. maybe look at the suggestion forum if you are serious about the defender missle thing.

Well speaking frankly, I don't expect anything here. I've brought this idea, as a topic for discussion, and we are doing just that - talking. As for CCP paying any serious attention to this, I have no illusions. They have already decided with those stats and they won't be changing them anywhere in near future. Besides, I really don't believe in all those "suggestions forums", those are made for whistle blowing mostly. It's more like "Let's discuss our boldest dreams about this game, and go home." Devs, especially in such big companies as CCP, have no time to listen to peons' blubbering, they have their schedule build for years ahead already. And the only thing which can change it - is a margin decline.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1565 - 2013-10-10 13:20:37 UTC
Tex Bloodhunter wrote:
Astero
- Currently only has 2 high power slots, 2 turret hard points
- Can only fit two guns, no cloak - alternatively cloak + probe launcher
- There is no cloaky combat fit possible at the moment - needs 4 high slots: cloak, probe launcher, 2 guns
- Does not have a probe launcher CPU bonus - can't fit expanded probe launcher
- Does not have a laser weapon bonus - no one will fit lasers to this ship
- Armor Resists on a cloaky frig (where defence = not being seen) seems unfitting

Also please mention if this ship can use black ops bridges and light covert cynos

no cloaky combat fit? what in the hay are you smokig? a full flight of 5 double health t2 drones with drone space for 10 more and potentially a DDA in the low isnt combat? really?

the ship isnt designed to hunt down enemy players, its an exploration ship that cam defend itself from or kill players already running sites.

understand what the ship is designed for then perhaps you can try to not turn it into a cloaky AF.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1566 - 2013-10-10 13:38:19 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
no cloaky combat fit? what in the hay are you smokig? a full flight of 5 double health t2 drones with drone space for 10 more and potentially a DDA in the low isnt combat? really?

the ship isnt designed to hunt down enemy players, its an exploration ship that cam defend itself from or kill players already running sites.

understand what the ship is designed for then perhaps you can try to not turn it into a cloaky AF.

Well, in fact you can easily use cloak + one gun in the high and have a very capable combat frigate, able to take on any frigate existing. In fact, you don't even need this gun in the high considering the hp of your drones.

Again, a flight of light drones is considered an anti frigate weapon for any ship larger than a destroyer, but it's not different for a frigate or destroyer. And with 4 mids and 4 lows, you have everything to be a king among frigate in pvp.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1567 - 2013-10-10 13:46:48 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Quote from Arnaud Amalric
Definitely had the right idea.
No one ever expects the spanish inquisition.


Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius
Seems appropriate.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
MiMozO
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1568 - 2013-10-10 14:04:07 UTC
Quote:
no cloaky combat fit? what in the hay are you smokig? a full flight of 5 double health t2 drones with drone space for 10 more and potentially a DDA in the low isnt combat? really?

the ship isnt designed to hunt down enemy players, its an exploration ship that cam defend itself from or kill players already running sites.

understand what the ship is designed for then perhaps you can try to not turn it into a cloaky AF.


Well, two highs is a bit tight for exploration though. That means no salvaging. It's bearable, but reducing frig's value quite a bit.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1569 - 2013-10-10 14:08:19 UTC
MiMozO wrote:
Quote:
no cloaky combat fit? what in the hay are you smokig? a full flight of 5 double health t2 drones with drone space for 10 more and potentially a DDA in the low isnt combat? really?

the ship isnt designed to hunt down enemy players, its an exploration ship that cam defend itself from or kill players already running sites.

understand what the ship is designed for then perhaps you can try to not turn it into a cloaky AF.


Well, two highs is a bit tight for exploration though. That means no salvaging. It's bearable, but reducing frig's value quite a bit.

You have a 75m3 drone bay, you can keep 2 flights of light combat drones and a flight of salvage drones. With the 20% drone HP bonus it is unlikely you will be losing drones very fast so only having 2 flights of lights will be ok.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1570 - 2013-10-10 14:11:26 UTC
@ CCP, i think what your doing with these ships is great and congratulate you on some fine work. However ive seen come people posting about another SOE ship called the Nestor - BS class ship. Is this a planned ships that might be released?

[url]http://imgur.com/a/3JSCn#2[/url]
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#1571 - 2013-10-10 14:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Syri Taneka
CCP Rise wrote:
Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to drone hitpoints

Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 540 / 600 / 600
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210

Armor resists AND 4 lows? 2 weapon hardpoints, but only enough high slots for 1 with a cloak or probe launcher (0 with both)? Seems a little tetchy to me... I'd rather 3 lows and a 3rd high, possibly even a 4th high for cloak and probes. Complete lack of damage bonuses all-but-mandates using guns and drones for dps.

CCP Rise wrote:

Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1950 / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550

Again, the resists and 5 lows seems like a bit of overkill, but at least this one has a utility/cloak high. Though again, two utility highs would be nice for cloak and probes. (This ship at least gets a drone damage bonus, so it doesn't badly need to fit guns on top of that; the frigate gets no damage bonuses, and badly needs its guns as well.)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1572 - 2013-10-10 14:18:41 UTC
Quote:
no cloaky combat fit? what in the hay are you smokig? a full flight of 5 double health t2 drones with drone space for 10 more and potentially a DDA in the low isnt combat? really?


Really. It has no output. Anything you can claim you could do in combat with an Astero, you can do better with a Tristan.

Yeah, the drones on it have double health... yay. All that means is that people know the second they see this ship to focus on cracking the tank instead of screwing around with the drones.

And you're wrong if you think you can kill somebody with this, either. It only has 4 mids. 2 hacking modules, one prop mod, and a cargo scanner are what you need for doing data and relic sites. That means no web to actually let your drones apply serious damage.

Like I said, the frigate suffers from extremely confused design that isn't made up for easily at the frigate level of fitting.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Feser One
Forge Heavy Shipyards
#1573 - 2013-10-10 14:20:52 UTC
Make a SOE Battleship in this style.

Take my money.
MiMozO
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1574 - 2013-10-10 14:35:20 UTC
Quote:
You have a 75m3 drone bay, you can keep 2 flights of light combat drones and a flight of salvage drones. With the 20% drone HP bonus it is unlikely you will be losing drones very fast so only having 2 flights of lights will be ok.

Fair enough. But I would still put another high. Two is kind of not very serious for a faction. Can be wrong though.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1575 - 2013-10-10 14:58:33 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And you're wrong if you think you can kill somebody with this, either. It only has 4 mids. 2 hacking modules, one prop mod, and a cargo scanner are what you need for doing data and relic sites. That means no web to actually let your drones apply serious damage.

Like I said, the frigate suffers from extremely confused design that isn't made up for easily at the frigate level of fitting.

Asking for a data/relic site site explo frigate in exploration fit to kill combat frigate in combat fit... Don't you think you are asking too much ?

A cloak on top of combat capabilities is largely enough for people to not use it for exploration. This ship is the perfect cloaky combat frigate already but moving a low to a high might be too much.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1576 - 2013-10-10 15:22:17 UTC
Vulfen wrote:
@ CCP, i think what your doing with these ships is great and congratulate you on some fine work. However ive seen come people posting about another SOE ship called the Nestor - BS class ship. Is this a planned ships that might be released?


Everything stands to suggest that the Nestor is indeed planned, but I wager they're looking to see how the frigate and cruiser balance out before moving forward with it.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1577 - 2013-10-10 15:32:52 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Asking for a data/relic site site explo frigate in exploration fit to kill combat frigate in combat fit... Don't you think you are asking too much ?


I'm not asking for anything, numbskull. I'm telling people that if they think they have a good chance at beating even a T1 combat frigate with this piece of garbage that they're insane.
Quote:

A cloak on top of combat capabilities is largely enough for people to not use it for exploration. This ship is the perfect cloaky combat frigate already but moving a low to a high might be too much.


It doesn't have combat capabilities. It can defend itself adequately against rats, that's all. It can put out, what, 75 dps (estimated, I am at work or I'd check) from it's unbonused drones?

That's the trick with this ship. If you want it to be able to explore, it can't fight for squat. If you want it to put out some deeps, it will have paper thin tank (and since it's kinda sluggish, that's a bad thing).

Since it cannot multi task, and it cannot really specialize, it's useless. If you are going to use it to explore, then a cov ops is much much better. If you are going to use it to fight, then there are handfuls of frigates that are better. And despite the hype, it can't do all of those things at once.

The Astero is a great big "why bother".

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1578 - 2013-10-10 15:42:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

It doesn't have combat capabilities. It can defend itself adequately against rats, that's all. It can put out, what, 75 dps (estimated, I am at work or I'd check) from it's unbonused drones?


99dps with T2 Hobs - with DDAs can put it upto 146 in a semi sensbile fit so its got a fair bit of teeth.

Kind of like it as it is - though I'd like to see it get a bonus to amarr drone damage so we see a bit of flavor in drones used and also acolytes have fairly decent tank, speed and tracking but lack for damage so with a bonus (say a static 50% bonus to amarr drone damage) that brought them up very slightly above unbonused hobs it would give the astero some nice but not OP combat ability.
Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1579 - 2013-10-10 15:48:55 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Vulfen wrote:
@ CCP, i think what your doing with these ships is great and congratulate you on some fine work. However ive seen come people posting about another SOE ship called the Nestor - BS class ship. Is this a planned ships that might be released?


Everything stands to suggest that the Nestor is indeed planned, but I wager they're looking to see how the frigate and cruiser balance out before moving forward with it.


Awww but I want my imperial star destroyer now.....
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1580 - 2013-10-10 15:58:35 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

It doesn't have combat capabilities. It can defend itself adequately against rats, that's all. It can put out, what, 75 dps (estimated, I am at work or I'd check) from it's unbonused drones?


99dps with T2 Hobs - with DDAs can put it upto 146 in a semi sensbile fit so its got a fair bit of teeth.

Kind of like it as it is - though I'd like to see it get a bonus to amarr drone damage so we see a bit of flavor in drones used and also acolytes have fairly decent tank, speed and tracking but lack for damage so with a bonus (say a static 50% bonus to amarr drone damage) that brought them up very slightly above unbonused hobs it would give the astero some nice but not OP combat ability.


Ah, yes, T2 hobs. I was in the neighborhood at least. Not too shabby for a guy with a 101 fever lol.

Ok, so you can pump it up to about 145 in a "semi sensible" fit? Curious as to what this fit might be, and how much tank it has overall as well.

I agree with your second point, kinda. I would just prefer to see drones get reworked completely, from the ground up. They are the mechanic more than anything else in this game that shows it's age. That way, we can actually have a legitimate reason to use the other two race's drones, and maybe we can make the overall weapon system less of a cluster****.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.