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Abaddon over the Apocalypse for Level 4's?
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Utchia Ieda
#1 - 2013-10-07 18:31:12 UTC
Obviously the Apoc is very friendly to people with low-ish SP but does there come a point when it's worth taking the Abaddon over it?


For example, I have EFT warriored this fit for the Abaddon:


[Abaddon, Abaddon fit]

Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized EM Membrane II
Energized EM Membrane II
Energized Thermic Membrane II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
100MN Afterburner II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
[Empty Rig slot]
[Empty Rig slot]


This gives me 688dps at 58.5km + 15.7km with no implants, with INM it's 863dps at 19.5km + 15.7km.


For the Apoc:

[Apocalypse, Apocalypse fit]

Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized EM Membrane II
Energized EM Membrane II
Energized Thermic Membrane II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
100MN Afterburner II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
[Empty Rig slot]
[Empty Rig slot]


This gives me 574dps at 76km + 15.7km with no implants, with IMN it's 720dps at 25.3km + 15.7km.


Or does the fact the Abaddon has worse tracking and slightly less range but more DPS work against it. Am I really going to notice those two thing in the majority of level 4's?
Holgrak Blacksmith
Prophets of Motav
#2 - 2013-10-07 19:00:21 UTC
The abaddon is better than an apoc with very decent skills imo, but the navy apoc is a lot better than both.
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#3 - 2013-10-07 21:50:37 UTC
navy apoc, fit all gank and the only tank is a large repper. fit a mjd. all lv4 are belong too you.

Like seriously, lvl 4 become extremely trivial when you fit one like that. The large repper is only a just in case mod for when you dont want to bother jumping out again to take on the last bs or 2

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-10-07 21:54:12 UTC
The range difference really don't seem to be large enough to make a real difference. What does make a difference is the ability to actually get within that range. Don't do a whole lot of good to have a short range ship and no real propulsion. With an Afterburner, you might be better with Scorch in most cases. I would certainly opt for the extra 100 DPS of the abaddon when using scorch.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#5 - 2013-10-07 23:15:43 UTC
sometimes you want the deepz, sometimes you want the projection. so I'd say get both! flexibility is nearly always the best option.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Nassau Adtur
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-10-07 23:26:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nassau Adtur
Job Valador wrote:
navy apoc, fit all gank and the only tank is a large repper. fit a mjd. all lv4 are belong too you.

Like seriously, lvl 4 become extremely trivial when you fit one like that. The large repper is only a just in case mod for when you dont want to bother jumping out again to take on the last bs or 2

NavyApoc has 777 DPS with perfect skills and horrible DPS projection (meaning=low real DPS).

I am not sure why you compare Abaddon and Apoc, both are not the best ships for PvE. For L4 missions NavyGeddon/Nightmare is the best choice. 3rd possible choice would be Armageddon (not Navy), which has insane DPS (1400+ DPS if fitted correctly), but quite weak tank so I am not sure if it can handle missions.

Nightmare is expensive as hell, so I will give you fit of NavyGeddon here:
[Armageddon Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Tracking Enhancer II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Cap Recharger II
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II
[empty rig slot]


Garde II x5

981 DPS.
3rd rig is up to you. It requires Electronic EE-603 implant (its not expensive) OR some fraction items. Its DPS projection is not perfect, but decent.

For hard missions add one more resist instead of TE
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#7 - 2013-10-08 01:41:16 UTC
Abaddon is better with a lot of big targets at sub 40km, Navy apoc is a lot better when you have groups that are spaced out on the grid(because of the 91km optimal and 1100m/s speed) and for any mission that throws a lot of small stuff your way, where volley count is mostly the same and the navy apoc just gives you a lot more range and tracking to get it done quick.

Examples of proper use:

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1305/Abaddon_L4_Recon_1.mkv

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1306/New_NAPOC_Smuggler_Interception.mkv

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#8 - 2013-10-08 04:31:34 UTC
If the game only had 2 ships in it and you could only own one ship at a time I'd chose the Abaddoon over the Apoalypse.

First to actually answer the question as intended! Big smile
Utchia Ieda
#9 - 2013-10-08 09:27:45 UTC
Holgrak Blacksmith wrote:
The abaddon is better than an apoc with very decent skills imo, but the navy apoc is a lot better than both.


Unfortunately the funds don't allow for Navy but I do think with my skills I could quite easily bypass the Apoc and go straight into the Abaddon.

Nassau Adtur wrote:


I am not sure why you compare Abaddon and Apoc, both are not the best ships for PvE. For L4 missions NavyGeddon/Nightmare is the best choice. 3rd possible choice would be Armageddon (not Navy), which has insane DPS (1400+ DPS if fitted correctly), but quite weak tank so I am not sure if it can handle missions.



Granted both aren't the best for PvE but funds limit me to those 2 choices currently, In an ideal world I would have a Nightmare. I've never really given the Geddon much thought, maybe have to give it a look over.



Ireland VonVicious wrote:
If the game only had 2 ships in it and you could only own one ship at a time I'd chose the Abaddoon over the Apoalypse.

First to actually answer the question as intended! Big smile



Indeed you are but discussion is always good Smile
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-10-08 16:55:51 UTC
Nassau Adtur wrote:
NavyApoc has 777 DPS with perfect skills and horrible DPS projection (meaning=low real DPS).

....
3rd possible choice would be Armageddon (not Navy), which has insane DPS (1400+ DPS if fitted correctly), but quite weak tank so I am not sure if it can handle missions.


Huh?!? its got range and tracking bonuses, it can project its DPS out farther and on target much better than others.

If you look at the % of max DPS applied, the Apoc and NApoc beat all the other laser boats (including the nightmare).

As for the total DPS applied on a target, thats a bit different, and it depends, but if you are going to MJD, your tank can be low, and past ~ 70 km the Apoc/Napoc are going to be putting more DPS on the target (due to using higher damage crystals).

The geddon is perfectly capable of tanking well, of course if you fill the lows with DDAs and other damage mods for launchers/turrets... then the tank will suffer.

As I trained Amarr BS to V before gallente, when the change came, I flew it as my drone boat, and its tank was fine:

Lows:
3 DDAs
Large armor Repper II
Reactive armor hardener
EANM (I used a deadspace one, I suppose this and the above reactive could instead be damage specific ones)
*mission specific hardener or sig amp

Mids:
MJD
2x Omni tracking links (i used fed navy)
Sebo or additional omni link

Highs:
4x Drone link augmentors (used some black eagles I had lying around from the gal epic arc)
and.. who cares... I think it was CPU limited, maybes some cruise launchers?

Rigs: 3x CCC

Was cap stable with the rep and hardeners,
It tanked just fine.