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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Dorororo
Keroro Platoon
#4901 - 2013-10-07 18:31:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorororo
Joe Risalo wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
OK, I'm convinced there is some guy in CCP that particularly hates Golem.
I'm sorry but how can people like this new model? You do know that Golem will have 19s align time? That ship Should be MASSIVE.
Not some underwingcut raven that looks like crap... I'm sorry, but this is another Fail on the Marauder side...


I'm more concerned with there performance rather than looks. Was pretty sure after the pics for the golem got posted that it was gonna look like crap anyways, so already had no high hopes on the eye-candy.


It's weird, cause I hate it, but I love it...


But still,
HAS ANYONE TESTED THE TRACTOR STRUCTURE??????


Can't find any of the new deployables on the market, maybe I just don't know what they're called.

Searched for "tractor", nothing. Searched for "cyno", only same old stuff.

My Paladin went from 892 m/s with a Core A-Type MWD to 715 m/s... pretty significant speed nerf.

Edit: Another wonderful tidbit, cruise launchers now only hold 27 missiles.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#4902 - 2013-10-07 18:34:39 UTC
Dorororo wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
OK, I'm convinced there is some guy in CCP that particularly hates Golem.
I'm sorry but how can people like this new model? You do know that Golem will have 19s align time? That ship Should be MASSIVE.
Not some underwingcut raven that looks like crap... I'm sorry, but this is another Fail on the Marauder side...


I'm more concerned with there performance rather than looks. Was pretty sure after the pics for the golem got posted that it was gonna look like crap anyways, so already had no high hopes on the eye-candy.


It's weird, cause I hate it, but I love it...


But still,
HAS ANYONE TESTED THE TRACTOR STRUCTURE??????


Can't find any of the new deployables on the market, maybe I just don't know what they're called.

Searched for "tractor", nothing. Searched for "cyno", only same old stuff.

My Paladin went from 892 m/s with a Core A-Type MWD to 715 m/s... pretty significant speed nerf.

Edit: Another wonderful tidbit, cruise launchers now only hold 27 missiles.


27 is normal for tech2 cruise launchers (unless you're looking at faction launchers, then it's not)

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Vorseger
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4903 - 2013-10-07 18:37:48 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=283065


#1 Posted: 2013.10.02 11:46 | Report | Edited by: CCP Sisyphus
Like
Hi everyone,

This will be the general feedback thread for Rubicon features on Sisi. It's the place to go if your feedback or question does not relate to one of the feature/team specific threads that will be linked below come Monday. It will be locked until the update goes live on Sisi on Monday 7th October so that there is no confusion or unnecessary thread clutter. As always, please keep feedback constructive and polite if you want your voice to be heard and note that these features are works in progress. As announced in a separate thread, there will be a fresh TQ mirror incoming in the next 2 weeks.


Superfriends
High sec POCOs
Siphon pseudo silo deployable (Not ready yet)


Game of Drones
Marauder rebalance
Bastion module
Electronic Attack Frigate rebalance
Rapid Launcher rebalance
ISIS (Ship tree)
Certificate changes


RnB
The DX11 client will be selected by default if your OS/Hardware supports it. Please note that nothing should look, or perform differently between the DX9 and DX11 clients and the team would like to hear of any instances where you feel things have changed.


Five 0
Warp curves
Interceptor rebalance


Trilambda
Command Ship Hulls
Marauder bastion animation states for the Kronos and Golem (Paladin and Vagur will be added in a later test server update)
Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers
Stargate jump arrival effect
Racial corpse variations in space and the death scene
Warp disruption bubbles effects (Deployables, Probes and Interdictors)


Klang
Behind the scenes audio refactoring
Jump gate sounds working on incoming gate activation (Not in yet)


Kuromaku
No longer need to pause skill training for installing/removing implants

KNOWN ISSUES

Camera resets when objects appear on grid

So far, deploy-able structure isn't ready yet.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4904 - 2013-10-07 18:40:11 UTC
Vorseger wrote:

So far, deploy-able structure isn't ready yet.


BOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

How are we even supposed to consider the effectiveness of Marauders when part of what we've been waiting for isn't even ready?
Dorororo
Keroro Platoon
#4905 - 2013-10-07 18:43:41 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Dorororo wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
OK, I'm convinced there is some guy in CCP that particularly hates Golem.
I'm sorry but how can people like this new model? You do know that Golem will have 19s align time? That ship Should be MASSIVE.
Not some underwingcut raven that looks like crap... I'm sorry, but this is another Fail on the Marauder side...


I'm more concerned with there performance rather than looks. Was pretty sure after the pics for the golem got posted that it was gonna look like crap anyways, so already had no high hopes on the eye-candy.


It's weird, cause I hate it, but I love it...


But still,
HAS ANYONE TESTED THE TRACTOR STRUCTURE??????


Can't find any of the new deployables on the market, maybe I just don't know what they're called.

Searched for "tractor", nothing. Searched for "cyno", only same old stuff.

My Paladin went from 892 m/s with a Core A-Type MWD to 715 m/s... pretty significant speed nerf.

Edit: Another wonderful tidbit, cruise launchers now only hold 27 missiles.


27 is normal for tech2 cruise launchers (unless you're looking at faction launchers, then it's not)


Oops, sorry my bad then. On TQ I use faction launchers but can't find them on SiSi so I popped in T2.

Golem with RF 100mn AB went from 350 m/s to 279 m/s. Aligning doesn't seem that bad but then again it always moved like a turd.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#4906 - 2013-10-07 19:00:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Sobaan Tali
Sounds like a slug alright. My Gist-X AB Golem does about 380 something on TQ. That'll hurt a bit. Corpmate said alignment time was utter butt too.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Hanna Cyrus
Spessart Rebellen
#4907 - 2013-10-07 19:04:39 UTC
Straight from the test-server: my thoughts.

I tested the Kronos in a few missions, the lower warpspeed and the minimal bader inertia (more mass) are exceptable, because alle BS hulls are involved. I like shooting stuff with null at around 70 km falloff, but with a MWD bonus i will be cooler, then the MJD.
I like to see the spoiler appear at the Kronos hull in bestion mode, it looks really cool, but only cool. I used it only for testing and in my eyes i don't really need the mode.

The 60 seconds cycle in practice is too long for me, a few level 4 (the smaller ones) mission are clear in 2 minutes. I can say for me tie not too much bonus in the "Bastion" thing. I would love to see for exchange of the the lower dps (because of Dronebandwith)and many other nerfs, a slitghtly dps buff in Bastion maybe 5-10% as a reason to use it.

I think less HP on armor, less cap recharge, slower speed, slower warpspeed and so on, give the players a reason to use it - looking awesome is cool, but with no reason to use, just give us a bit sugar, to make it sweeter.
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#4908 - 2013-10-07 19:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Vinyl 41
done sev missions today and i dont rly feel any changes form TQ l4 are just as easy as they were the only difference now is that thx to the bastion you dont need the pimp stuff simple t2 stuff does the job :/ oh and missions with gates on 60km are a pain now
on a side note can we increase the TP circle duration to 7 seconds that 5 second circle sucks its the same stuff as with 10 they never finish when you want them to
right now im not a big fan of all those changes to marauders there is just not much difference from the TQ ones
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#4909 - 2013-10-07 19:22:27 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
about teh bastion mode would it be possilbe to add a ship skill bonus to reduce the bastion activation cycle time by 3 seconds per level. that way at level 5 the mod will cycle every 45 seconds.

as noted the full one minute timer can be a tad long.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4910 - 2013-10-07 19:26:22 UTC
Vinyl 41 wrote:
done sev missions today and i dont rly feel any changes form TQ l4 are just as easy as they were the only difference now is that thx to the bastion you dont need the pimp stuff simple t2 stuff does the job :/ oh and missions with gates on 60km are a pain now
on a side note can we increase the TP circle duration to 7 seconds that 5 second circle sucks its the same stuff as with 10 they never finish when you want them to
right now im not a big fan of all those changes to marauders there is just not much difference from the TQ ones


As far as completion times, CCP wasn't trying to speed that up, but they were trying to make Marauders better tank, and balance their sensor, and apparently too my advice and the advice of others to allow ewar immunity, although we were only suggesting npc ewar immunity.

However, compared to pretty much every other lvl 4 mission capable ship, Marauders have always had tanking issues due to their massive sig, slow speed, and the fact that players wanted to use short range weapons most of the time.
Dorororo
Keroro Platoon
#4911 - 2013-10-07 19:47:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorororo
Bastion range bonus is pretty underwhelming.

With the Paladin's new optimal range bonus, it already hits 80/96 km optimal/falloff with Scorch and 2 TCs with optimal range scripts. Turning on Bastion boosts this to 94/112, which is about a 17% boost to both optimal and falloff. Doesn't really seem like much of a game-changer, especially in exchange for complete immobility (granted Bastion has other benefits)

At this point I would probably only ever activate Bastion for the ewar immunity, and I will not be using the MJD as its more hassle than it's worth.

Edit: Spoke too soon. Upon further thought it might allow me to switch out those TCs and mount 2x webs instead, even without the web bonus this would help with close in targets while maintaining similar range as on TQ. Hmm. But basically I don't see Bastion really helping snipers that much.
Allandri
Liandri Industrial
#4912 - 2013-10-07 19:58:09 UTC
I really think the Bastion module needs another penalty besides immobility and no remote assistance. Decreased cap regen or an actual cap use to the module seems like it would balance out the positives
Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4913 - 2013-10-07 20:06:15 UTC
@ CCP

After doing some testing on fittings on test and using EFT.

The Kronos & Paladin definitely suffer from a slot layout problem 8 highs is good but they dont need 3 utility highs currently a proteus can get 700 dps at the same range as a kronos costing 3 times the amount can deal 750 dps not in bastion (theoretical in fall off) bastion does not boost it by enough to make it worth loosing RR ability
The proteus can match the tank, at double the speed and maneuverability.

And again based on current prices the proteus is 1/3 of the cost.

Therefore i believe we need to loose one of the high slots and give either a mid or a low, by doing this then you can choose your mod and either fit more dps/tank with a low or a TC to improve dmg application to make it beat a T3 for range

the only advantage between Marauder over T3 is the MJD bonus, but that just isnt enough.

The current layouts are great for pve but just not right for pvp
Jacob Bok'Kila
Logrotate Inc.
#4914 - 2013-10-07 20:06:21 UTC
Allandri wrote:
I really think the Bastion module needs another penalty besides immobility and no remote assistance. Decreased cap regen or an actual cap use to the module seems like it would balance out the positives


One point of bastion is to reduce the energy needs of the tank...
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4915 - 2013-10-07 20:09:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Allandri wrote:
I really think the Bastion module needs another penalty besides immobility and no remote assistance. Decreased cap regen or an actual cap use to the module seems like it would balance out the positives


Are you special Ed?
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4916 - 2013-10-07 20:15:47 UTC
Vulfen wrote:
@ CCP

After doing some testing on fittings on test and using EFT.

The Kronos & Paladin definitely suffer from a slot layout problem 8 highs is good but they dont need 3 utility highs currently a proteus can get 700 dps at the same range as a kronos costing 3 times the amount can deal 750 dps not in bastion (theoretical in fall off) bastion does not boost it by enough to make it worth loosing RR ability
The proteus can match the tank, at double the speed and maneuverability.

And again based on current prices the proteus is 1/3 of the cost.

Therefore i believe we need to loose one of the high slots and give either a mid or a low, by doing this then you can choose your mod and either fit more dps/tank with a low or a TC to improve dmg application to make it beat a T3 for range

the only advantage between Marauder over T3 is the MJD bonus, but that just isnt enough.

The current layouts are great for pve but just not right for pvp


The Golem could go for an 8th mid as well.
With 2-3 TPs needed, MJD, cap booster, and the rest being tank, we don't have any room for play.
Edora Madullier
French Kiss Singularity
#4917 - 2013-10-07 20:40:45 UTC
Lair Osen wrote:
To test Bastion on SiSi, goto Moveme channel and type bastion to get skills for all marauders and bastion.

On the Bastion Module. please ensure the range bonuses are non-stacking, since they're half the reason to use the modules and they don't seem to be ATM.


Thanks! My Tachyon Paladin has 69km range with Multifrequency. I think the range bonuses of the Bastion Mode do indeed stack with my two TC II.
The concept is not as awesome as I thought it would be, since you cannot MJD on the Acceleration Gate, warp through it and then instantly MJD again to take distance. But the fact that I cannot be TD'ed, damped, jammed is pretty awesome, and the LAR II giving me 25% armor every cycle is pretty amazing too.

I'm pretty satisfied atm. Gonna test Kronos and Vargur too, maybe even Golem, even if my Torpedoes skill is not at V.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4918 - 2013-10-07 20:47:47 UTC
Edora Madullier wrote:
Lair Osen wrote:
To test Bastion on SiSi, goto Moveme channel and type bastion to get skills for all marauders and bastion.

On the Bastion Module. please ensure the range bonuses are non-stacking, since they're half the reason to use the modules and they don't seem to be ATM.


Thanks! My Tachyon Paladin has 69km range with Multifrequency. I think the range bonuses of the Bastion Mode do indeed stack with my two TC II.
The concept is not as awesome as I thought it would be, since you cannot MJD on the Acceleration Gate, warp through it and then instantly MJD again to take distance. But the fact that I cannot be TD'ed, damped, jammed is pretty awesome, and the LAR II giving me 25% armor every cycle is pretty amazing too.

I'm pretty satisfied atm. Gonna test Kronos and Vargur too, maybe even Golem, even if my Torpedoes skill is not at V.


Though I haven't used it yet, i'm not sure I like MJD bonus as we're still to slow to close the leftover distance.
Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4919 - 2013-10-07 20:53:01 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:


The Golem could go for an 8th mid as well.
With 2-3 TPs needed, MJD, cap booster, and the rest being tank, we don't have any room for play.


i agree i haven't tested them though cuz i dont used shield tank ships aften
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4920 - 2013-10-07 20:56:40 UTC
Vulfen wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:


The Golem could go for an 8th mid as well.
With 2-3 TPs needed, MJD, cap booster, and the rest being tank, we don't have any room for play.


i agree i haven't tested them though cuz i dont used shield tank ships aften


Yeah, but the way the Golem as always worked, you either put a prop mod, a third tp, or increased tank.

Now that you're bonused to MJD, you have no free mid.