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Question about damage type
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Ellon JTC
Quadralien
#1 - 2013-09-22 10:08:37 UTC
Hey
They say the best type of damage to deal to guristas is kinetic. I don' t understand how they got to that. A rattlesnake is a gurista battle ship and its shield tanked, and it has 0% EM shield resistance. So shouldn't Em be the best type of damage to inflict on guristas?
Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-09-22 11:08:45 UTC
Ellon JTC
Quadralien
#3 - 2013-09-22 11:11:18 UTC
Ifly Uwalk wrote:
You tell me


interesting, how do they get those numbers?
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-09-22 11:59:24 UTC
I might be wrong, but i think the data is from a older version of the eve data dump which contained npc specific data no longer available in current data dumps.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-09-22 15:19:04 UTC
This is a game, not a sim.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#6 - 2013-09-22 17:38:59 UTC
NPCs cheat. End of story. Have you seen how far they can fling torpedos?

Seriously, the models have very little to do with NPC stats or capabilities. NPC Machariels fire defenders. NPC RSs don't use drones. Etc. Etc. Defensive stats are the same way; they vary by NPC type and are not based on the player-available models.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Fraternity.
#7 - 2013-09-22 19:28:21 UTC
Test it to make sure CCP aren't tricking us... Blink
Dowlphin
V for Vision
#8 - 2013-10-07 10:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Dowlphin
Interesting link. This shows that NPC ships are very different from player-controllable ones.
The fact that NPC pilots are cheating makes the combat missions even more un-immersive than they already are. It also ruins any chance at making them serve training purposes for the general rules of the game in the PvP area - to give players a 'feel' for how things work.

(BTW I recently witnessed them cheating in a very extreme way. A bunch of BS and BC kept chasing me and had me target-locked and firing missiles at me at ranges of 300-400 km.)

Which list is the most likely up-to-date then? I found three different versions in character biographies and would like to know which one used what data basis.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-10-07 10:59:06 UTC
There are outliers within certain specific NPC groups but this list is still valid as far as I'm able to tell:

http://www.ogrank.com/content/view/698/59/
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#10 - 2013-10-07 11:26:13 UTC
Dowlphin wrote:
Interesting link. This shows that NPC ships are very different from player-controllable ones.
The fact that NPC pilots are cheating makes the combat missions even more un-immersive than they already are. It also ruins any chance at making them serve training purposes for the general rules of the game in the PvP area - to give players a 'feel' for how things work.


If you think people fit rattlesnakes with an EM hole for PVP, think again.

Quote:


(BTW I recently witnessed them cheating in a very extreme way. A bunch of BS and BC kept chasing me and had me target-locked and firing missiles at me at ranges of 300-400 km.)

Which list is the most likely up-to-date then? I found three different versions in character biographies and would like to know which one used what data basis.


it depends on your weapon type. ie one presumes missile and projectile users are best served by selecting kinetic, but I have found garde IIs (thermal) often superior to warden IIs (kinetic) for ratting gurista, because there are a lot of other tradeoffs in the drone choice including damage modifier.
Dowlphin
V for Vision
#11 - 2013-10-07 13:15:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Dowlphin
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
There are outliers within certain specific NPC groups but this list is still valid as far as I'm able to tell:

http://www.ogrank.com/content/view/698/59/


That seems to match the data from the previous link. I'll go with that one. I don't think CCP would go through the effort of revising all that data, at least not without mentioning it in release notes.

I made some own quick and unrefined notes from that data where I kept the priority chain so that one can also see which damage types would have the least effect.



damage to inflict in deadspace missions (most to least effective) | damage received from them ("+" means mostly equal):

Serpentis: KI TH EM EX | TH KI
Angel: EX KI TH EM | mostly EX+KI, some others
Mordus: KI EX EM+TH | KI TH
Guristas: KI TH EX EM | KI TH
Sansha: EM TH KI EX | EM+TH
Blood: EM TH KI EX | EM+TH
EoM: KI EX EM+TH | KI TH
Rogue Drones: EM TH KI EX | EX KI TH EM

Main factions seem to mostly have the same stats that the pirate faction with the same ships have.

A general rule becomes visible: Whichever empire faction you're currently in, its military hardware will deal the optimum damage type for fighting its deadspace NPC enemies (pirates and hostile empire factions).
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-10-07 17:48:52 UTC
Ellon JTC wrote:
Ifly Uwalk wrote:
You tell me


interesting, how do they get those numbers?


CCP publishes toolkits and does a data dump from time to time of in-game info.

http://community.eveonline.com/community/fansites/toolkit/
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#13 - 2013-10-07 17:58:24 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
it depends on your weapon type. ie one presumes missile and projectile users are best served by selecting kinetic, but I have found garde IIs (thermal) often superior to warden IIs (kinetic) for ratting gurista, because there are a lot of other tradeoffs in the drone choice including damage modifier.


And you and I both know that if you could get Gardes that did pure kinetic damage with all else equal they'd be better against both Guristas and Serpentis.

Sentries really are the exception here rather than the rule. The other edge case are projectile weapons when you really, really need a high kinetic component but want to use high damage ammo, lasers when you're fishing hard for as much thermal as possible but are stuck with pulses, and missiles on kinetic-bonused hulls. Otherwise matching damage type just makes sense.
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#14 - 2013-10-08 10:39:10 UTC
Ellon JTC wrote:
Ifly Uwalk wrote:
You tell me


interesting, how do they get those numbers?


from CCP database dump

and that link is what numbers are ingame. go to first page of that link, and you'll see database version:

Database: Odyssey 1.1 (598940)