These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Player Owned Customs offices in Hi-Sec

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mel Hython
Akaram Technologies
#421 - 2013-10-04 10:13:02 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Mel Hython wrote:

WE REALLY NEED A TOOL TO DO BOYCOTT. PLEASE CREATE IT.

If you want war every where, accept that the economical war is a way to do it.

we can crush everyone everywhere but we are completely unable to create shell corporations or use npc alts



:)

Of course you can create alts and false corps, but for me it is enough punishment if the ppl that control the big part of the game need to manage all this boring process of false vendors. Even can be a new kind of profession, the reseller, ¡even better!

The current situation starts to be boring, the worse possibility to CCP. POCOs are not going to increase the enjoyment at all -apart to be incoherent with the background story: empires giving away for free this infrastructures?? player corps firing on interbus items?? Please, at least do it coherently, the empires should sell the infrastructures and only to the high standings corps.

Different type of players need to have their own space. 0.0 is perfect for people with tons of time. Lucky them. Low is great for a bit of risk and combat, the realm of piracy and so. WH is like the little 0.0 pockets. But please, mantain High Sec for the people that loves the game but have really low number of hours to play. We are paying the month fee too.
Kaeda Maxwell
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#422 - 2013-10-04 10:21:26 UTC
Will people go suspect shooting interbus CO's in highsec just like they do in Lowsec?

And please say yes, I'll be an instant fan of this feature then.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#423 - 2013-10-04 11:25:41 UTC
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:
Will people go suspect shooting interbus CO's in highsec just like they do in Lowsec?

And please say yes, I'll be an instant fan of this feature then.

Nope


CCP Paradox wrote:
Panhead4411 wrote:
So does this mean that in order to take down any current HS POCO's, we'll be tanking our standing with Interbus?


No standing/security or suspect flag hit will happen.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
John B'dlam
Forkhaul Logistics Ltd.
#424 - 2013-10-04 12:04:03 UTC
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:
Will people go suspect shooting interbus CO's in highsec just like they do in Lowsec?

And please say yes, I'll be an instant fan of this feature then.

You don't go suspect shooting Interbus CO's in lowsec. Shooting POCO's in lowsec makes you go suspect.
Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#425 - 2013-10-04 12:28:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kropotkin
Mel Hython wrote:
[T]he empires should sell the infrastructures and only to the high standings corps.

Different type of players need to have their own space. 0.0 is perfect for people with tons of time. Lucky them. Low is great for a bit of risk and combat, the realm of piracy and so. WH is like the little 0.0 pockets. But please, mantain High Sec for the people that loves the game but have really low number of hours to play. We are paying the month fee too.

Why make taking control of hi-sec customs office military operation? Why not make it contractual, or bribery?

ISK-sinks are good, right?

Possibility A: Auction - similar to many real-world auctions now. InterBus auctions off right to operate Customs House for a (month? quarter?). Winner then collects the InterBus-determined rate from all exports, remits a percentage of that to InterBus, keeps the rest. Player cannot change rate, but can deny service to war-dec enemies.

Maybe there would be standing requirement, to participate in auction?

Maybe player could change rate, but cannot set rate higher than cap determined by InterBus?

Possibility B: Bribery - also similar to real-world! Lol Player can bribe InterBus officials to take control of Customs Office for a month (or whatever period). Again, player can only increase rate up to InterBus cap.

Probably would be no standing requirement for this one.

Perhaps there is possibility that local Empire police come in and "clean house" with some probability, replacing corrupt InterBus officials and fining bribing player? Perhaps that probability increases as customs-rate increases and volume increases, as suffering victims of corrupt situation complain to politicians?
Shadow' Broker
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#426 - 2013-10-04 17:00:51 UTC
Looks like the New High sec Pocos a re gonna be a nice way to test the new Marauders right?

Also the 1man Corps out there with high-sec POSes could be a little worried in this manner.
F'C
Common Ground
Wrecking Machine.
#427 - 2013-10-04 18:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: F'C
Mel Hython wrote:

WE REALLY NEED A TOOL TO DO BOYCOTT. PLEASE CREATE IT.

If you want war every where, accept that the economical war is a way to do it.



If you are truly interested in hurting the goons financially with your PI industry, it's REALLY SIMPLE:

Switch all of your planets over to start making guidance systems. They have already TOLD you that they are heavily invested in them. It's not rocket science.
Aliath Sunstrike
#428 - 2013-10-04 18:04:29 UTC
Aryth wrote:


I have not denied anything. As stated before, I was the one that developed the plans. But even those plans require less than 2% of highsec POCOS at most. Even that is a stretch and HIGHLY unlikely.

The game mechanics dictate that anyone big already has a fairly sizeable income stream thus far for their membership. That may not be alliance ISK and can take the form of membership ISK, but it is still income.

So mechanics dictate that the only mega entities holding POCOs will be ones that find it attractive to do so from either an income generation perspective or for PVP opportunities. Frankly there are better PVP generators for mega entities but some of this will occur. The ISK/RISK reward will have various cutoff points for corp/alliance sizes. But with the sheer # of planets in highsec/highsec islands it is not practical within the current game mechanics to hold a large portion.

People need sandcastles in EVE. PI has been a risk free wealth generator for quite some time now. We won't be the highsec PI boogeyman, but I sure hope a few dozen entities are. It will provide a natural progression path.

Highsec (PI,Decs) -> Lowsec (PVP,FW) -> WH (Small scale warfare, POS) -> Null (Large Scale warfare/SOV)

Will some people lose their risk free ISK machine? Yes
Will they be able to relocate and find an appropriate tax location? Yes
If anything people should be looking forward to taking some out of the way backwater POCO and setting their rate to 0% for their corp and charging others a modest tax. Why everyone is fixated on the Bloc/Alliance problem is beyond me.

Fixate on what happens in other scenarios, not that one.




I want to comment on this post out of this entire threadnaught because I think this is probably the most insightful and well thought out post of the lot. (Minus all his other and other goons trolling - which has reached a new record high in this thread I think.)

First off - I completely 110% agree that it is way too carebear that people made money doing hisec PI with no risk. This is so un EVE and life that it needed a boot. Granted I started out in EVE as an industrialist and like that aspect of the game, but there has to be risk/reward as Aryth says. Sandcastles people - sandcastles.

With that said though, I will reiterate my original point, that I think this game should probably always leave hisec as the de-facto learning ground but we already broke that years ago, with bumping, can flipping, suicide ganking, etc. Why I say this is because I do worry it will run potential players off by making the EVE learning curve even steeper.

(SIDE RANT: But I can tell EVERY PLAYER reading this right now that CCP DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THAT. They care about something greater, money. Every time a new player signs up, buys a ton of plex and ISK's up through their system they jump with joy! Subscriptions are nothing compared to the PLEX machine. People cry in this game about microtransactions and pay to win. Gimme a break. How can 90% of the player base be so dumb. The day PLEX was introduced with no complaining was the day pay to win came to EVE. You can take PLEX and buy a top of the line toon on Character Bazaar, then buy all the best ships. Simple. Yeah you have to get good at em and you will lose some, but what does CCP care. You have already invested a ton of cash into this hobby.)

Anyways - I digress. The reason I say all this is because Hisec is no longer Hisec people - it needs to only be called NPC Empire. A place CONCORDE exists and for how long, no clue.
Up until now I (like the other 90% - do with that what you want Goon trolling brigade) thought that CCP had always designed Hi-sec to be a safe haven for LEARNING about the game...and that probably was the case; not anymore.

Get ready for the day when EVE is all about REALLY ALIGNING yourself with people of like minds. I wouldn't doubt if NPC Factions lose control of EMPIRE. IT is about the evolution of EVE. It is about Rubicon and the beginning of the end of the way things as we know it. CCP has developed the tools over the years, now they want to turn us lose to our own devices.

Aryth here just had to spell it out for all of us (myself included). Cheers mate.

/Grady

Continuous player since 2007.
None ofthe Above
#429 - 2013-10-04 18:39:46 UTC
I've held off on the standing issue, thinking about it hard.

I agree with many folks who don't want to deal with the standings, requiring people to do PvE in order to do business is a bit silly. The PvE system... and the standing system... are antiquated and illogical in many ways. Could use a complete revamp. I can imagine standings for doing commerce or industry in the empire or any number of things. (But that's another project entirely.)

But I do think requiring some standing and perhaps even Charters for POCOs would be an improvement on this system.

Failing to keep standing or Charters would cause the POCO to be considered abandoned and begin functioning like a generic CO.

Minimum standings probably don't need to be as high as for POSes. Cut them in half maybe? Or -5?

Please require at least a non negative standing with the "Sov" holder.

Yes I know that this doesn't block out null-blocks nor should it. But I think they should at least be required to put up the effort of a front.

Charters or some sort of low cost "fuel" seem like a good idea to keep this from becoming scatter and forget. Local involvement in their operation will lead to more interaction with the other players in the area. Or should this just be a passive hands off money print?

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#430 - 2013-10-04 18:45:33 UTC
Really unless the last few vestiges of TEST somehow shove themselves into a POCO we're not going to be shooting a zillion of them

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#431 - 2013-10-04 18:58:38 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:

Charters or some sort of low cost "fuel" seem like a good idea to keep this from becoming scatter and forget. Local involvement in their operation will lead to more interaction with the other players in the area. Or should this just be a passive hands off money print?

any poco forgotten can be cleared by a single afk domi willing to spend two nights in a row shooting it

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
None ofthe Above
#432 - 2013-10-04 19:07:25 UTC
Dramaticus wrote:
Really unless the last few vestiges of TEST somehow shove themselves into a POCO we're not going to be shooting a zillion of them


I continue to be amused by the narrative you guys are using.

A combination of trying to act as if people giving feedback about the flaws in this system being all about utterly unfounded anti-goon paranoia, and conversely at times outright glee at the possibilities for griefing.

It really doesn't matter even if Goonswarm or all of CFC for that matter opts not to use this new system at all. There are flaws in the system and they will be exploited if not corrected. What was once a minimally useful part of the economy and a way of life for some people may end. Now if it's not desirable to have it, maybe it should just be removed, rather than this byzantine almost good feature.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#433 - 2013-10-04 19:11:57 UTC
it does not destroy the need for pi nor the profitability of pi when we yoke pubbies to our pocos and whip isk out of them

they just pass the price on to the consumer

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
None ofthe Above
#434 - 2013-10-04 19:13:39 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

Charters or some sort of low cost "fuel" seem like a good idea to keep this from becoming scatter and forget. Local involvement in their operation will lead to more interaction with the other players in the area. Or should this just be a passive hands off money print?

any poco forgotten can be cleared by a single afk domi willing to spend two nights in a row shooting it


Right... I'l just got on that... oh CONCORDOKKEN... I guess you forgot to mention the Wardec thing.

So that wakes people up and so does the reinforcement messages.

It's still passive until someone comes along and wakes you up. And there are quite a few hurdles for someone to cross (huge alliance isk decshield).

Many of these would be visited far less often than the allegedly passive income PI installations you folk call a money-print. The materials need to be collected moved to factory planets and be hauled off.

You just want to put things up and collect isk unless someone fights you. No need to expose pilots to the harsh rigor of space nor interact with the people in these systems.

Who is the carebear here?

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#435 - 2013-10-04 19:15:10 UTC
the carebear is the person terrified away from a profitable poco because it displays the label CONDI

the wealthy profitable warlords are the people who can put their names on things and terrify away everyone else

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
None ofthe Above
#436 - 2013-10-04 19:15:48 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
it does not destroy the need for pi nor the profitability of pi when we yoke pubbies to our pocos and whip isk out of them

they just pass the price on to the consumer


Except you have to compete with low and nullsec PI. Margins are already thin on highsec PI. Easily could end up paying to do this. If the goal is to make this infeasible, probably would be cheaper and easier to just remove PI from high sec entirely.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#437 - 2013-10-04 19:20:23 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
it does not destroy the need for pi nor the profitability of pi when we yoke pubbies to our pocos and whip isk out of them

they just pass the price on to the consumer


Except you have to compete with low and nullsec PI. Margins are already thin on highsec PI. Easily could end up paying to do this. If the goal is to make this infeasible, probably would be cheaper and easier to just remove PI from high sec entirely.

transport ain't free, in time or isk

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
None ofthe Above
#438 - 2013-10-04 19:22:37 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
the carebear is the person terrified away from a profitable poco because it displays the label CONDI

the wealthy profitable warlords are the people who can put their names on things and terrify away everyone else


You sure its not the massive alliances that have grown fat on passive moongoo, looking for their next drug of choice for easy isk to fund their ship replacement programs that make their wars zero risk propositions?

Not as clear a distinction as you seem to think.

Anyway as much as you would like it to be, this not about you. It's about giving good feedback on game mechanics.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
None ofthe Above
#439 - 2013-10-04 19:26:22 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Weaselior wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
it does not destroy the need for pi nor the profitability of pi when we yoke pubbies to our pocos and whip isk out of them

they just pass the price on to the consumer


Except you have to compete with low and nullsec PI. Margins are already thin on highsec PI. Easily could end up paying to do this. If the goal is to make this infeasible, probably would be cheaper and easier to just remove PI from high sec entirely.

transport ain't free, in time or isk


A valid point, but refutes nothing I've said. It does get baked into the market competition though. Worth pointing out, though.

So I suppose a small thank you is in order: ty

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Angus McRothimay
Fenrir Vangard
#440 - 2013-10-04 19:47:55 UTC
All very interesting - I don't care who owns them I just want to know if it's possible to gank a customs office gantry before it comes online...