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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Samara Anninen
#261 - 2013-10-02 22:12:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Samara Anninen
La'Krul wrote:
Samara Anninen wrote:
- remove CovertOps cloak fitting ability
- add several role bonuses to Improved Cloak which will neutralise all penalties of Improved Cloak (speed and scanres penalties, recalibration/reactivation delays) to make it behave just like CovOps cloak but with one important (IMHO) exception - no warping in cloak allowed.


When you're exploring in null you're jumping into hostile system after hostile system, any of which could have a bubble camp. The cov ops cloak is essential for encouraging people to venture out into the depths of space without wondering if they are going to survive the trip or how the hell they are going to get their phat loot all the way home.


I see no problem with this. You just have to be visible when you are warping. You still can leave bubble fast being cloaked. It is still ages better than usual t1 exploration frigate with improved cloak.
Anyway... guns are not absolutely necessary to survive anywhere in new eden - just use covops if you want to be fully invisible. Otherwise - why will you ever use covops for exploration if you have enough isks to buy this OP ship with CovOps cloak, exploration bonuses and ability to fight back?

Intelligence Bot For FW Militia Chat
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#262 - 2013-10-02 22:13:11 UTC
Cap recharge time stats, please?
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#263 - 2013-10-02 22:13:18 UTC
Any bonus to lasers will be appreciated - ROF, DPS, tracking, you name it.

(Ice) Miner for life.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#264 - 2013-10-02 22:17:10 UTC
Samara Anninen wrote:
I see no problem with this. You just have to be visible when you are warping. You still can leave bubble fast being cloaked.
Anyway... guns are not absolutely necessary to survive anywhere in new eden - just use covops if you want to be fully invisible. Otherwise - why will you ever use covops for exploration if you have enough isks to buy this OP ship with both cloak and ability to fight back?


There is very little difference. When a covops cloaker decloaks he has to wait 6 seconds (noone trains Cloaking V) before he can lock you. Your imp cloaker is visible in warp, but he can lock immediately after landing on grid. You don't get much more warning against the latter, even if you spam dscan.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#265 - 2013-10-02 22:17:24 UTC
Cool stuff is cool. More ships it's always good specially with older getting balanced and fun (welp marauders....grrrr)

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Joelleaveek
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#266 - 2013-10-02 22:22:29 UTC
What type of sensors do these have?
Kane Fenris
NWP
#267 - 2013-10-02 22:24:20 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need



plz dont force us to use lasers....
as a pilot who has every race but amar skilled (ships and weapons) and enjoys exploration this sucks cause i have to train both cruisers 5 and med weapons 5 just to use those awesome ships... if i could use any turret weapon on them it would be way better
Samara Anninen
#268 - 2013-10-02 22:27:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Samara Anninen
Xequecal wrote:
Samara Anninen wrote:
I see no problem with this. You just have to be visible when you are warping. You still can leave bubble fast being cloaked.
Anyway... guns are not absolutely necessary to survive anywhere in new eden - just use covops if you want to be fully invisible. Otherwise - why will you ever use covops for exploration if you have enough isks to buy this OP ship with both cloak and ability to fight back?


There is very little difference. When a covops cloaker decloaks he has to wait 6 seconds (noone trains Cloaking V) before he can lock you. Your imp cloaker is visible in warp, but he can lock immediately after landing on grid. You don't get much more warning against the latter, even if you spam dscan.


Well... OK. It's true, but actually I have said that it should duplicate CovOps cloak in any way except cloak warping so recalibration delay can be simply not totally removed but reduced to the same 6 seconds as for CovOps.

The point is to make these ships and CovOps much like Combat/Force Recons in terms of gank/stealthiness

Intelligence Bot For FW Militia Chat
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#269 - 2013-10-02 22:29:51 UTC
Wow love the ships.

As a keen Tristan, Vexor class pilot I love the ships, they are probably overpowered.

The frigate with four lows and a resist bonus will tank like an Incursus/punisher but deal damage like the Tristan. SAAR and plate or dual rep is going to be very strong and being combined with the cloak is going to be a fearsome ambush brawler.

Be cautious about allowing this in novice FW complexes. The probable cost and power level does not make there feel like entry level ships, have you thought about making these technically tech 2 a bit like the tourney ships but with the covops recon skills.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#270 - 2013-10-02 22:33:16 UTC
Samara Anninen wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Samara Anninen wrote:
I see no problem with this. You just have to be visible when you are warping. You still can leave bubble fast being cloaked.
Anyway... guns are not absolutely necessary to survive anywhere in new eden - just use covops if you want to be fully invisible. Otherwise - why will you ever use covops for exploration if you have enough isks to buy this OP ship with both cloak and ability to fight back?


There is very little difference. When a covops cloaker decloaks he has to wait 6 seconds (noone trains Cloaking V) before he can lock you. Your imp cloaker is visible in warp, but he can lock immediately after landing on grid. You don't get much more warning against the latter, even if you spam dscan.


Well... OK. It's true, but actually I have said that it should duplicate CovOps cloak in any way except cloak warping so recalibration delay can be simply not totally removed but reduced to the same 6 seconds as for CovOps.

The point is to make these ships much like Combat/Force Recons in terms of gank/stealthiness


......which also does nothing, as the recalibration timer will expire while they're warping.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#271 - 2013-10-02 22:34:37 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need



plz dont force us to use lasers....
as a pilot who has every race but amar skilled (ships and weapons) and enjoys exploration this sucks cause i have to train both cruisers 5 and med weapons 5 just to use those awesome ships... if i could use any turret weapon on them it would be way better


Who's forcing you to use lasers? There's no damage bonus to lasers. You could just as effectively use blasters or autocannons.
Fayral
Nano Currency
Yeet. Pray. Love.
#272 - 2013-10-02 22:35:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Fayral
I feel like these ships needs to stay true to their roots as a covert ops all in one exploration boat. Similar to how people used the pilgrim in the same role, just much better. A more usable laser bonus would be nice, like an optimal bonus. Ship balance does need to be taken into consideration as its a pretty tight line to walk. If the Stratios becomes more of a cloaky hunter killer elite pvp ship than a really efficient exploration boat than i won't be a happy camper.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2013-10-02 22:36:22 UTC
What's really disappointing is that the community is stuck in some old mindset that "anything different = overpowered" or that anything expensive is suddenly overpowered.

This is NOT overpowered. If anything, the frigate needs a buff in damage.
Samara Anninen
#274 - 2013-10-02 22:37:27 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Samara Anninen wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Samara Anninen wrote:
I see no problem with this. You just have to be visible when you are warping. You still can leave bubble fast being cloaked.
Anyway... guns are not absolutely necessary to survive anywhere in new eden - just use covops if you want to be fully invisible. Otherwise - why will you ever use covops for exploration if you have enough isks to buy this OP ship with both cloak and ability to fight back?


There is very little difference. When a covops cloaker decloaks he has to wait 6 seconds (noone trains Cloaking V) before he can lock you. Your imp cloaker is visible in warp, but he can lock immediately after landing on grid. You don't get much more warning against the latter, even if you spam dscan.


Well... OK. It's true, but actually I have said that it should duplicate CovOps cloak in any way except cloak warping so recalibration delay can be simply not totally removed but reduced to the same 6 seconds as for CovOps.

The point is to make these ships much like Combat/Force Recons in terms of gank/stealthiness


......which also does nothing, as the recalibration timer will expire while they're warping.


ok-ok, my fail :)

Anyway they are too OP, IMHO, and should be either nerfed or CovOps should be boosted with new abilities

Intelligence Bot For FW Militia Chat
Gabriel Locke
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#275 - 2013-10-02 22:40:33 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Xequecal wrote:


Eh, when ganking ratters it's going to come down to which ratters you're ganking. You definitely don't want blasters when you're hunting afktars and Tengus in Gurista/Serpentis/Angel space, just like you don't want lasers in Bloodraider/Sansha space.

Well, isn't it lovely that auto cannons can switch their damage type, and are good everywhere? See the problem with lasers against tengus, for example, is that if you use Imperial Navy Multifreq, most tengus will have over 90% thermal resist with a single invuln alone, thus making you loose almost half your dps right there.

You could switch to scorch, but then you loose 20% of your dps right off the bat. Also a tracking penalty from scorch, which may or may not hurt you against an AB fit tengu. Now, lasers aren't bad in this situation, but autocannons are better because you'll want to web him since 90% of tengus are ab fit anyway. And once you're in web range AC's win.

Just to be clear: lasers aren't bad.

It's just that for cloaky PvP, unbonused blasters and autocannons are FAR better than cap bonused lasers. Dehval's fit is a pretty good example of this.


You guys are right, this thread is definately the best place to discuss whether lazers are better than projectiles, in general, endlessly.
Overdos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#276 - 2013-10-02 22:40:58 UTC
what needs to be added to the frigit is a mini doomsday or a mini siege mod.
Samara Anninen
#277 - 2013-10-02 22:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Samara Anninen
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
What's really disappointing is that the community is stuck in some old mindset that "anything different = overpowered" or that anything expensive is suddenly overpowered.

This is NOT overpowered. If anything, the frigate needs a buff in damage.


They are different, they don't have analogs (why one should train gallente/amarr skills to use the only ones cloaky exploration damage dealers?) and they overlap with CovOps - why would you ever need one with these beasts?

So, they don't belong to one of the currently existing ship classes which makes them what is called "a fifth wheel of the cart" because they are somewhere between CovOps and usual damage dealing ships.

They can be compared to new specialized indies which are unique current gallente/minmatar indie lines - they should belong to completly independent indie line (ORE indies, for example, with ORE Industrial as prerequisites) but they aren't however that is partially compensated by Mammoth and Iteron V being in general worser than Tayra and Bestower.

Intelligence Bot For FW Militia Chat
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#278 - 2013-10-02 22:45:18 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Gabriel Locke wrote:


You guys are right, this thread is definately the best place to discuss whether lazers are better than projectiles, in general, endlessly.

When they apply directly to one of the ships in question, yes. When a blaster fit was proposed that clearly works better at its role than the bonused laser fit, again yes.

Troll somewhere else.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#279 - 2013-10-02 22:45:48 UTC
Gabriel Locke wrote:
You guys are right, this thread is definately the best place to discuss whether lazers are better than projectiles, in general, endlessly.


The ships (well, at least the cruiser) will never go live in this state, they make Alliance Tournament ships look weak. Discussing these stats is actually kind of pointless.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#280 - 2013-10-02 22:49:22 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Xequecal wrote:


Eh, when ganking ratters it's going to come down to which ratters you're ganking. You definitely don't want blasters when you're hunting afktars and Tengus in Gurista/Serpentis/Angel space, just like you don't want lasers in Bloodraider/Sansha space.

Well, isn't it lovely that auto cannons can switch their damage type, and are good everywhere? See the problem with lasers against tengus, for example, is that if you use Imperial Navy Multifreq, most tengus will have over 90% thermal resist with a single invuln alone, thus making you loose almost half your dps right there.

You could switch to scorch, but then you loose 20% of your dps right off the bat. Also a tracking penalty from scorch, which may or may not hurt you against an AB fit tengu. Now, lasers aren't bad in this situation, but autocannons are better because you'll want to web him since 90% of tengus are ab fit anyway. And once you're in web range AC's win.

Just to be clear: lasers aren't bad.

It's just that for cloaky PvP, unbonused blasters and autocannons are FAR better than cap bonused lasers. Dehval's fit is a pretty good example of this.


Shooting Sansha/Blood Raider ratters with lasers.

Projectiles > Lasers for cloaky hulls.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.