These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Matias Otero
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#241 - 2013-10-02 21:17:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Matias Otero
EDIT: Nvm. Was ranting based off wrong assumptions. These ships are great.
Matias Otero
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#242 - 2013-10-02 21:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Matias Otero
double post
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#243 - 2013-10-02 21:24:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Xequecal
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Read dehval's post. If autocannon's won't be used, blasters will. Either way, lasers won't be the first choice. Not when you can get 1000+ dps off of a covops hull with blasters.

Also, the "full complement of bonuses" argument is batshit stupid. That's like saying the Cynabal's "25% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire" is "just a free extra one." A bonus is a bonus, end of line.


Yeah, if I was planning to decloak 3km away and try to gank that way, I'd definitely fit blasters. But it's just as viable to decloak 24km out with TDs and pew pew with lasers. ACs are mediocre at both roles so I don't see them being used much.

Also, what's stupid is you assuming lasers are just a garbage weapon system on their own such that hybrids or ACs with zero bonuses are automatically better than lasers with half of one.
sten mattson
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#244 - 2013-10-02 21:27:37 UTC  |  Edited by: sten mattson
nobody uses a cloaky legion because lazers are its ONLY weapon choice, doesnt even have 25 m3 dronebay. This ship has a huge dronebay, bandwidth and damage bonus.

if i ever buy this , ill be sure to use lazors for their long optimal. if it cant track , ill just use my drones

EDIT: Holy Jamyl! This dronebay is unkillable!!

IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!!
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#245 - 2013-10-02 21:31:12 UTC
covert ops with actual ability to kill stuff other than black ops/bombers?
I'll buy 100

I want to test these as SOON as they get onto sisi

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#246 - 2013-10-02 21:32:34 UTC
Fact 1: It is perfectly viable to decloak literally in someone's face.
Fact 2: With Null this baby is still rocking some serious damage while not being in someone's face. And don't forget a chunk of the damage comes from drones.
Fact 3: You only need 3-4 mids for an exploration ship.

Suggestions then:

Reduce the number of midslots to 3, 4 tops. 3 is enough to fit a prop mod + exploration modules. 3 is also "enough" to fit the basic armor tanker pvp deal of prop/point/web.

Give it a laser damage bonus. To make it truly a proud covert lasers pew pew ship.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#247 - 2013-10-02 21:35:20 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Xequecal wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Read dehval's post. If autocannon's won't be used, blasters will. Either way, lasers won't be the first choice. Not when you can get 1000+ dps off of a covops hull with blasters.

Also, the "full complement of bonuses" argument is batshit stupid. That's like saying the Cynabal's "25% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire" is "just a free extra one." A bonus is a bonus, end of line.


Yeah, if I was planning to decloak 3km away and try to gank that way, I'd definitely fit blasters. But it's just as viable to decloak 24km out with TDs and pew pew with lasers. ACs are mediocre at both roles so I don't see them being used much.


Yeah, you clearly don't do the whole cloaky ganking thing. After the NPC AI changes, every single hostile in the mission/anom/plex will shoot you instead of the other guy the moment you use your tracking disruptors on anything. Your 35k ehp Stratios will die a quick death to NPCs alone, before your target even decides to shoot back. And it will die even faster when he decides to shoot back.

You could of course wait till your target kills all the rats, but I'd much rather apply my 1000+ blaster dps alongside the 600+ dps from rats without triggering their aggro, killing my target in less than 20 seconds.

But you have fun plinking away at your target from 24 km while he gets his 30 friends from next door to kill your shiny ship. Roll
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#248 - 2013-10-02 21:36:37 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
Fact 1: It is perfectly viable to decloak literally in someone's face.
Fact 2: With Null this baby is still rocking some serious damage while not being in someone's face. And don't forget a chunk of the damage comes from drones.
Fact 3: You only need 3-4 mids for an exploration ship.

Suggestions then:

Reduce the number of midslots to 3, 4 tops. 3 is enough to fit a prop mod + exploration modules. 3 is also "enough" to fit the basic armor tanker pvp deal of prop/point/web.

Give it a laser damage bonus. To make it truly a proud covert lasers pew pew ship.

No, please no... not the anemic lowslots of all other Amarr ships...

I'd rather have a gimped damage-less cruiser than one with virtually no midslots for the people that actually want to explore and do DED sites.
Gabriel Locke
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#249 - 2013-10-02 21:37:08 UTC
Drop the drone bandwidth to 100m3 so people have to think about what they're doing and the DPS isn't completely insane?
La'Krul
HolyTrident
Tactical Narcotics Team
#250 - 2013-10-02 21:43:40 UTC  |  Edited by: La'Krul
CCP Rise wrote:
The cruiser missing the Cloak CPU bonus is intentional, the CPU is set with that in mind.

If you guys can show me fits that you feel SHOULD work with the cloak and don't because of missing the bonus please let me know, but we were able to run 6/10s with it set like this and it gives it some interesting tradeoffs when deciding what to do with it.


I can run 8/10s in an Ishtar without breaking sweat. I hope the Stratios is as capable.

These ships look awesome. Personally, I think they should be very expensive or you should lose skillpoints if one pops.

Also, I think the layout should be 6/5/5 - if I'm away for a long trip I want to be able to fit Probes/Salvager/Cloak and at least three turrets (I'd also like space for a remote reps to heal damage to my drones, but you can't have everything, right?).

5 is necessary for mids as you'll want a mwd and an ab, a drone tracking mod and 2 analyzers. Lows will be a DCII, armour rep, a hardener and two drone damage mods. Rigs likely to be cap rigs and armour. (Just the way I'd run it).
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#251 - 2013-10-02 21:48:44 UTC
La'Krul wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
The cruiser missing the Cloak CPU bonus is intentional, the CPU is set with that in mind.

If you guys can show me fits that you feel SHOULD work with the cloak and don't because of missing the bonus please let me know, but we were able to run 6/10s with it set like this and it gives it some interesting tradeoffs when deciding what to do with it.


I can run 8/10s in an Ishtar without breaking sweat. I hope the Stratios is as capable.

These ships look awesome. Personally, I think they should be very expensive or you should lose skillpoints if one pops.

Why should one lose SP for these?
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#252 - 2013-10-02 21:52:39 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Read dehval's post. If autocannon's won't be used, blasters will. Either way, lasers won't be the first choice. Not when you can get 1000+ dps off of a covops hull with blasters.

Also, the "full complement of bonuses" argument is batshit stupid. That's like saying the Cynabal's "25% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire" is "just a free extra one." A bonus is a bonus, end of line.


Yeah, if I was planning to decloak 3km away and try to gank that way, I'd definitely fit blasters. But it's just as viable to decloak 24km out with TDs and pew pew with lasers. ACs are mediocre at both roles so I don't see them being used much.


Yeah, you clearly don't do the whole cloaky ganking thing. After the NPC AI changes, every single hostile in the mission/anom/plex will shoot you instead of the other guy the moment you use your tracking disruptors on anything. Your 35k ehp Stratios will die a quick death to NPCs alone, before your target even decides to shoot back. And it will die even faster when he decides to shoot back.

You could of course wait till your target kills all the rats, but I'd much rather apply my 1000+ blaster dps alongside the 600+ dps from rats without triggering their aggro, killing my target in less than 20 seconds.

But you have fun plinking away at your target from 24 km while he gets his 30 friends from next door to kill your shiny ship. Roll


Eh, when ganking ratters it's going to come down to which ratters you're ganking. You definitely don't want blasters when you're hunting afktars and Tengus in Gurista/Serpentis/Angel space, just like you don't want lasers in Bloodraider/Sansha space.
Samara Anninen
#253 - 2013-10-02 21:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Samara Anninen
Will not these ships' purpose overlap too much with covops' ones and be too OP in general?
At the moment they are basically "covops with guns" - new class of ships, not just an upgraded version of t1 ships like other faction ships. They will have lower entry barrier than covops and the only thing which can drive pilots away from them - price (they will be expensive, I'm sure). They will also create some sort of amarr/gallente favoritism because of their absolutely unique features - universal damage dealing and exploring ship with covops cloak - most of current cloaky ships are not damage dealers at all (they are focused on EWAR) except stealth bombers but they are rather specialised and t3 which are not very good at damage dealing in cloaky configuration. Unlike covops they will have both exploring bonuses and still will be able to drive off/kill other pilots in occupied sites.

So, to make them overlap less with covops:
- remove CovertOps cloak fitting ability
- add several role bonuses to Improved Cloak which will neutralise all penalties of Improved Cloak (speed and scanres penalties, recalibration/reactivation delays) to make it behave just like CovOps cloak but with one important (IMHO) exception - no warping in cloak allowed.

What's the purpose?
-CovOPS still will be #1 choice for active stealth reconnaissance since SoE ships will be still visible on d-scan while warping and in overview when landing.
-In the same time SoE ships will be able to move around safely - they will be able to pass gatecamps just like as with cloak+mwd trick except mwd wouldn't be necessary (since speed will not be penalised with cloak on)
-They will still be able to avoid bubble camps in the same manner as covops

Intelligence Bot For FW Militia Chat
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#254 - 2013-10-02 21:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Those models, wow, give the art guys a raise Shocked

The frigate seems a bit weak, shouldn't the drone bonus on the frigate and cruiser be the same, with a damage and HP bonus? I can see why the frig has just the HP bonus in relation to being able to use 5 light drones, 99 DPS with hobgoblins, plus maybe one turret if the probe bonus is forsaken.

Basicly, its DPS is quite week for a faction frig. It needs either a drone damage bonus or the ability to fit two guns to compensate imho.


The cruiser looks good, but what about cloak CPU? Will it have a -100% CPU usage as well? I ask because it doesn't say so in the role bonuses.
I'll have to get one of those, it looks awesome. And get decent sentry drone skills :/

Make heavy drones faster CCP; ffs there's a reason people only use lights and sentries!

Edit: Btw, lasers suck, give it a decent laser bonus instead of that cap usage bonus. Range, maybe tracking or damage?

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#255 - 2013-10-02 21:56:58 UTC
Gabriel Locke wrote:
Drop the drone bandwidth to 100m3 so people have to think about what they're doing and the DPS isn't completely insane?


I can't believe some people can be so shortsighted.

100? Really?

The ship has no turret damage bonus, no drone damage bonus, and now you want to take away 20% of it's potential damage? Can't tell if trolling...

The ship is rather gimped as it is because of no damage bonuses. I can't believe some people want to nerf it. It's like they've never been to nullsec.
La'Krul
HolyTrident
Tactical Narcotics Team
#256 - 2013-10-02 21:57:38 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Why should one lose SP for these?


Just an idea, as they are so good. Mind you, as they will also be used as an offensive ship maybe it would be a bad idea.

I just don't want to see everyone flying them. Maybe it could requires SoE standings to fly or something or the skill requirement should be really extensive.

Personally, I'd make the prerequisites all Cruisers to V, Astrometrics V and Cloaking V, for a start.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#257 - 2013-10-02 21:59:22 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Gabriel Locke wrote:
Drop the drone bandwidth to 100m3 so people have to think about what they're doing and the DPS isn't completely insane?


I can't believe some people can be so shortsighted.

100? Really?

The ship has no turret damage bonus, no drone damage bonus, and now you want to take away 20% of it's potential damage? Can't tell if trolling...

The ship is rather gimped as it is because of no damage bonuses. I can't believe some people want to nerf it. It's like they've never been to nullsec.

It has the standard 10% per level drone damage bonus (cruiser)
La'Krul
HolyTrident
Tactical Narcotics Team
#258 - 2013-10-02 22:01:28 UTC  |  Edited by: La'Krul
Samara Anninen wrote:
- remove CovertOps cloak fitting ability
- add several role bonuses to Improved Cloak which will neutralise all penalties of Improved Cloak (speed and scanres penalties, recalibration/reactivation delays) to make it behave just like CovOps cloak but with one important (IMHO) exception - no warping in cloak allowed.


When you're exploring in null you're jumping into hostile system after hostile system, any of which could have a bubble camp. The cov ops cloak is essential for encouraging people to venture out into the depths of space without wondering if they are going to survive the trip or how the hell they are going to get their phat loot all the way home.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#259 - 2013-10-02 22:01:43 UTC
La'Krul wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Why should one lose SP for these?


Just an idea, as they are so good. Mind you, as they will also be used as an offensive ship maybe it would be a bad idea.

I just don't want to see everyone flying them. Maybe it could requires SoE standings to fly or something or the skill requirement should be really extensive.

Personally, I'd make the prerequisites all Cruisers to V, Astrometrics V and Cloaking V, for a start.

No doubt it's very strong, but I'd prefer it'd be balanced than unfairly penalized. Even after seeing the justification I wonder still if the resist bonus makes it to durable for a cov ops ship.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#260 - 2013-10-02 22:07:43 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Xequecal wrote:


Eh, when ganking ratters it's going to come down to which ratters you're ganking. You definitely don't want blasters when you're hunting afktars and Tengus in Gurista/Serpentis/Angel space, just like you don't want lasers in Bloodraider/Sansha space.

Well, isn't it lovely that auto cannons can switch their damage type, and are good everywhere? See the problem with lasers against tengus, for example, is that if you use Imperial Navy Multifreq, most tengus will have over 90% thermal resist with a single invuln alone, thus making you loose almost half your dps right there.

You could switch to scorch, but then you loose 20% of your dps right off the bat. Also a tracking penalty from scorch, which may or may not hurt you against an AB fit tengu. Now, lasers aren't bad in this situation, but autocannons are better because you'll want to web him since 90% of tengus are ab fit anyway. And once you're in web range AC's win.

Just to be clear: lasers aren't bad.

It's just that for cloaky PvP, unbonused blasters and autocannons are FAR better than cap bonused lasers. Dehval's fit is a pretty good example of this.